Midi multi recording setup and DAW integration

[jugge]

Hi guys,

A couple of questions.

If I want to assign instruments to all 16 channels in the Genos, what is the recommended way to do this?
Since channel 9-16 are assigned to the style and channel 1-4 for the left and right voices, what about channel 5-8?
Should I assign those to the left and right voices as well and change the sounds for those after finishing recording channel 1-4?
or are there any other recommended way on how to set it up, so that I can set up all the channels before starting to record.

I also have a question about DAW integration. I have read some older posts here about integrating Genos with a DAW (Cubase in my case),
but it still seems to be issues. Personally I record the style and right voices in Genos and export it to a midi file before importing it in Cubase.

However, this seems to be a bit of a hit and miss. Especially when I want to change voices in the middle of a song.
Internally  Genos is handling this perfectly, But not so much in Cubase. It sometime works, but most of the time it
won't change to the correct sound and the volume is often very off.

This was even happen to me yesterday when I only used a single guitar voice + the style.
The style played perfectly in Cubase, but the voice sometimes changed to a drum kit and I have no idea on why this happen. 
Even changing the voice in Cubase using the Genos patch bank to the same one that Genos internally was using, didn't help either.

Previously, when using other keyboards, it was as simple as turning the local off on the keyboard and you where ready to record.
I have experiment a bit with the chasing notes and retrospective record options in Cubase, but without any success. 

So my question is, does any of you have a working setup for your DAW and can share the settings for both Genos and in the DAW?

I should also mention that I use the element version of Cubase and not the more advanced artist or pro version, but I am not sure it will
help me to upgrade. I just want to do some simple midi and audio editing.
At the moment there is a 40% discount for upgrading to Cubase Pro but if it doesn't offer anymore advantages when it comes to Genos integration,
I think I will pass this offer.

Thanks
/Jorgen     

[Janus]

Styles are a selectie little midifiles
Every part got data such as prg chance and controllers
The best is to remove the data from the tracks
Make a new mix put it in the first measure
There will be no more chances after starting the song

[jugge]

Styles are a selectie little midifiles
Every part got data such as prg chance and controllers
The best is to remove the data from the tracks
Make a new mix put it in the first measure
There will be no more chances after starting the song

Hi Janus,

Do you mean I should remove all data from the tracks in Genos before importing it to Cubase and then do all program changes and other control functions in Cubase?

[Janus]

yes
you can keep the data in the first measure  to keep the start data
You can always make a new mix and remove the first measure
keep the first measure free for the data
start the song on measure 2

it is easier to remove the data in cubase
that is very faster


Another point the first data must always be a reset
Keep the xgreset

[panos]

Hi Jugge,
Channels 5-8 are for recording the multipads in default.
This is all I know.Unfortunately I cannot help with your other question.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

HI Jugggujuggjugg Ugawoga!! wiggi wiggi!


Sounds changing to drum kit


Instead of having ALL MIDI  in the inspector over GENOS WORKSTATION


          Do this and your problem will be solved                  NOT CONNECTED
                                                                                          GENOS WORKSTATION
This stops that loop back which causes all strange things to happen

You can now edit in piano roll and stop and start without the strangeness. Thanks to Robinez  for putting me right


Best to make a Style track on the Genos sequencer and put that on a usb stick and import into cubase.
Get your midi connections right and you are away to record separate tracks ,including VST.


All the best
john

[markstyles]

You can complete sync your DAW to Genos (or any Yamaha arranger KBD).   I use Genos (previously Tyros's) with Logic Pro extensively for many years. 

There are many ways to do this depending on how complex you want to get things.

First I sync Genos to USB MIDI 1 to follow Logic (or any DAW).. I record the chords of song into DAW.  I keep the MIDI designations of Genos to keep things simpler.  So Logic sends out the chords (I clean them up so they are full legato chords)  In Genos I set it up in the MIDI section.. I check MIDI Track 2.  So now when DAW plays (and is sending MIDI clock) it takes the place of your left hand. 

Here it gets more complicated - You can record your whole performance, changing Mains sections, selecting RIGHT 1, 2, 3, etc.   I however usually record one part at a time.  In this case, I can change when and the order of MAINS changes. Or even using a different style.

I go to my DAW and strip out SY*** commands, (these often change the MAINS part, change DSP set-up).  In order to get this right you have to go to GENOS MIDI in, and set up the different MIDI channels to SONG.  This is the same as using Genos sequencer, expect for now.

in my DAW at the beginning of each track I put what I call a 'Control Sequence'.  This will set up the Genos to have proper instrument, sends.

picture of Control Sequence - https://app.box.com/s/d4096mq0gb1uw4epp6dc

Here is the Midi Control Sequence - https://app.box.com/s/z3ek8mcbkh9wekrd4eza

You must change the MSB/LSB/PRG numbers to match those that are used in style (or pick another instrument).    In Genos one of the set-up pages will the #'s in the instrument box.

For instance 104-021-001 is the CSX Concert Grand that shows up when you first start Genos for RIGHT 1.

Go online and GOOGLE 'MIDI CC events'..   there are 128 commands. These do an incredible amount of things. you can change Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release of of events, change volume, expression, chorus, reverb send levels etc. 

Programs (which is the number for the exact patch instrument.  On PROGRAMS, On some instruments and DAWs the number range is 0-127 OR 1-128.   Depending on your DAW you might have to lower the PRG by a value of 1..  to get you DAW to select the right program on Genos. 

This can get pretty complex from here on.  You have to find how 'deep' you want to go with interfacing you DAW with Genos.. DSP effects are set up with sy***.  Sy*** is in Hexidecimal format (base 16)..  If you've really got the patience to master this, you can set up DSP effects.  To keep it simple I just make note of effects, and set them up by hand in Genos.

The beauty and complexity of this is that you can use your DAW to make more instrument parts, then Genos normally uses.  Genos style generation use MIDI 9-16.  I leave this set-up the same in DAW for ease in figuring out what is going on.  You can have DAW-Genos playing 16 parts, and then begin adding additional style parts if you want.


If you want to keep things simple, In your DAW assign the Genos Style parts to the STYLE channel in MIDI receive.  Instead of SONG for each part, assign MIDI 9 - Rhythm1, MIDI 10 to RHYTHM2 etc. Then on Genos, select the same Style you want, which will select the appropriate instrument, AND any DSP effects you have used.


What I like about using a DAW, is that I change MAINS at different times for each overdub of an instrument.  So instruments don't all change at once.  It gives more subtlety to the music. 

You can easily clean up hand played parts, in your DAW.

I use the Genos as a 'compositional tool', and not in the way a 'one man band' performer would use.  However I read an article many years ago, by one of the original programmers of Genos/Tyros Operating system.  He put in access to Genos, in the pages in MIDI set -up. 

What I love about Tyros and Genos, is the live quality of its voices.  While there are plenty of good Kontakt libraries to use with your DAW.  Genos's instruments feel more 'alive' to me. Especially the Art2 and Mega voices.

There can be a pretty deep learning curve here.  But you can use it simply or get complex with it.

I have been recently toying with changing the chords used in the CHORD DETECT track in DAW, to make individual style generator for a specific track.  Like for instance a kbd player make quick chord changes, like I - IV if chord changes are slow changing. But I only use this in piano part, so whole band doesn't do it.

I haven't posted any new work here lately, cause I make heavy use of above tricks, and often use other sound sources, virtual instrument, Kontakt libraries.  So I am not using Genos in the traditional sense. 

Here is some older posts of music using the techniques, and an idea of what you can do if so inclined. 

https://soundcloud.com/mstykes


Hope this sheds some insight for you..

[jugge]

Thank you Mark for the detailed explanation.