Comparison between Clavinovas and Tyros/Genos

[Nocturne64]

Hello, I'm evaluating to replace my old piano with a new Clavinova CVP model, because I need a piano with internal arranger section in it. I do not know which piano I will buy yet, probably I will wait when new 800 series will be released. But I would like to ask your opinion about arranger section in these pianos compared to the top Yamaha arranger keyboards like Tyros5 or Genos. I believe main voices could be similar (I tried CVP709 and they are so good), but what about additional functions and features? Is there something you can do with arranger keyboards and not with Clavinovas? All possible advices are greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[mikf]

While the CVP is a piano with most of the features of an arranger, there are detail differences, it doesn't have multipads or pitch bend wheel for example. It would be quite hard to list all these detail differences because few people have both, far less be able decide which might matter to you. Additionally, I have seen no likely specs for the CVP 800 series.
I  think you would have to do this the other way round and detail what you might want to do, and let people confirm if that can be done or not on a CVP.
Mike

[Nocturne64]

Hi Mike, thank you for your reply. So, mainly I'm a pianist, I play on my grand piano too, now I'm looking for new generation digital piano to replace an old one. But, as I said, I want an arranger section in it so I can play not only piano but other voices and things without buying a specific keyboard (it would be a non-sense). My choice was on a 709, then I heard about coming 800 series so I just wait it will be released. Joystick or multipad lacking is not a problem for me. Do you know if additional style packs are available for CVP like for Tyros/Genos? Maybe not, but I'm not sure. Thanks.

[mikf]

I had an arranger for many years and changed to CVP. I now have two - a 605 and a 705. This may seem a bit over the top, but its because I have two homes, and have everything duplicated, including my grand pianos. I do not know what will be in the 800 series, but probably just a few improved sounds, and a few additional arranger features. Like I said on another thread, these technologies are now so mature all changes are incremental, and never a huge difference. 
My playing nowadays is mostly two handed piano with simple style accompaniment. The CVPs are both perfect for that. The only significant difference between the 605 and 705 is the additional piano voice sample from the Bosendorfer on the 705. The 705 also has the piano room accompaniment feature. It was a bit of a nice novelty for a while, but in all honesty, I seldom use it now.
Occasionally I drop into full arranger mode, and find the CVP does everything I need, nothing missing from the arranger or recording features I would desperately want. I have found that styles are pretty interchangeable ie Tyros styles ( and I suspect Genos styles) will play on the CVP. Like all model changes, you might need to tweak the voice choice with style imports, but not much.
Everything really depends on what you want to do on the keyboard, but I would say that the CVP is everything most will ever need from an arranger as well as a nicer piano. Of course it cost a lot more even that a Genos, although you might get a used CVP700 or 600  at a very good price and in perfect condition. People buy these things because they live in a dream that they will be able to be great players in a few weeks, then reality sets in, and a couple of years later they are for sale almost as new.
One thing I would say - the 709 and 609 difference is only the keyboard feel. And the cost difference from the 605/705 is quite a lot. I am an ex pro piano player, and while to me there was a detectible difference, it is not hugely noticeable. Unless you are a top class concert pianist playing Chopin, it may not be worth it.
Mike

[Nocturne64]

Hi Mike, very useful review! Well, I do not know if I'm a top class concert pianist, but surely I'm graduated and I play Chopin on my grand piano! As my nickname could let imagine. Maybe. So, keyboard action is important for me, and this is one of the reason I do not consider arrangers like Genos. But Genos has fantastic features and voices and styles! Reading your post it seems that you are not regretting for arranger replacement in favour of CVP, and you are so convincing you know. Just watched a youtube video regarding new 809, but it was not for public user and it was removed.... but it was enough to understand that updated voices seem amazing. I believe these new voices could use the same engine like in Genos but I cannot be sure of that, obviously. Also, knowing high quality of Yamaha digital pianos, I surely would use CFX and Imperial voices for classical music and practice, and reading your replies I'm thinking again that CVP could be the best choice for me. Thank you again, I let you know.

[mikf]

The voices on the CVPs are in general very high quality. Are they as good as a Genos? will the 800 series have a similar sound engine? I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that even if it is arguably better, it will not be night and day. The psr3000 is now about 15 years old, but had very good sound. In the hands of a decent player, they all sound very good.
Mike

[jwyvern]

Hi Nocturne64,

Hi Mike, thank you for your reply. So, mainly I'm a pianist, I play on my grand piano too, now I'm looking for new generation digital piano to replace an old one. But, as I said, I want an arranger section in it so I can play not only piano but other voices and things without buying a specific keyboard (it would be a non-sense).

A few other things to be aware of which don't make the Arranger section on current CVP's  "equivalent" to Genos or Tyros:
During live playing you can layer only 2 right hand voices, not 3.
I believe SA2 voices are not available.
I believe Aftertouch may not be available.

If I am wrong on the last 2 I am sure Mike or others will correct me 
John

[mikf]

You are correct on these items. The arranger on a CVP is not the same as a Tyros or Genos in terms of detailed features. It's close though overall and the voice/sound quality is similar, except for piano which is probably better on the CVP as you would expect.
Mike

[stephenm52]

Hello, I'm evaluating to replace my old piano with a new Clavinova CVP model, because I need a piano with internal arranger section in it. I do not know which piano I will buy yet, probably I will wait when new 800 series will be released. But I would like to ask your opinion about arranger section in these pianos compared to the top Yamaha arranger keyboards like Tyros5 or Genos. I believe main voices could be similar (I tried CVP709 and they are so good), but what about additional functions and features? Is there something you can do with arranger keyboards and not with Clavinovas? All possible advices are greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Nocturne you've already have some excellent feedback regarding the CVP series.   Once I bought a CVP307 it wasn't long before I sold my Samick grand.  In my opinion the CVP307 piano was so good and stayed in tune that the more I played it and the less I played the Samick grand I decided to sell the grand. I live in a climate with big swings in temperature and humidity, it got to the point I was having the piano tuned/serviced 3 times per year.  I understand the 800 series was just released, looks like it's great instrument.

Mikf/Mike, You have quite the arsenal of some very fine instruments!

[Nocturne64]

Thank you very much to all. Your feedback are appreciated and so useful to me. Yes I saw in specific section that Yamaha is going to release new CVP800, and I posted direct link to a very interesting video playlist.
I post here the same link:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbPXhs3J3MiC3NuKMi6skCtUMfqeWwEpk
So I just decided to wait when this new piano will be in the stores and try it, maybe during next Autumn I believe.
I let you know. Thank you again.

[mikf]

Stephen - Thank you. All the instruments are nice, but the Shigeru is in a different league and probably the closest thing to perfect I have ever owned. Tone and feel are like fine silk, and it has an incredible mahogany finish, so it also looks amazing. I once played a Bosendorfer Porsche for a couple of hours, in a castle of all places, that cost close to 1/4 million dollars and thought it was not as good as the Shigeru. Just wish I could play it better, but unfortunately that is something you can't buy.
Wasn't always  this way, I learned on an ancient old upright my parents got free from the local dance hall who were throwing it away, and we could never afford to have it tuned. When I got married I acquired free again a piano so old and beat up my wife hand painted it before she would let it in the living room. I used to try and tune it myself. Those were the days!
Mike