Few questions about S-975...

[alfaholic]

Hello everyone,

I am playing with S-975, but unable to figure out how to do few things so I would appreciate some help.

1. How to connect YEM with my keyboard so I can hear and tweak in real time all the effects during sound creation? Or edit the sound in keyboard, but then transfer edited version into YEM? Now I can connect MIDI only, but still listening through my sound card, without hearing keyboard's DSP effects (distortions, compressors, etc.)
2. How can I use FINGERED ON BASS and have arranger play neutral when pressing only one note (the way it works with AI FINGERED)? With FINGERED ON BASS simply skips when playing with one finger, while AI FINGERED plays neutral but without ON BASS option.
3. Is it possible to copy the whole style at once to another one, without need to do it one by one part, one by one variation? If it is not possible in keyboard, does some 3rd party software do this faster?
4. How to change initial state that appears after the keyboard is turned on? I can start with a registration so it brings all my settings, but it would be great to make my own "welcome setup" so I can continue to work with all my settings already applied.

Thank you all...

[DerekA]

Hello

1 -I think you mean you want to adjust the voice in YEM, but have the sound played by the keyboard tone generator as you do it. I don't think this is possible (but happy to be proven wrong by others). Tyros and Genos may be able to do something like this, but not the S series.

2 - Fingered on Bass, by its very nature, means you need to press more that one note. It doesn't support doing anything when you only press one.

3 - Just save the currently loaded style under a new name.

4 - This is a common question - but you can't. There are some settings that are saved, but generally you need a setup registration to do this.

Sorry it's mostly no! 

[alfaholic]

Thanks...

1. So this basically means that we are unable to create voices with DSP effects other than using existing presets we can not hear in real time while making it. Nice feature...
2. Finger on bass is also called Bass Inversion in some other keyboards, and it is always a separate option that enables the last left finger in a chord to lead the bass line while chord fingering is a totally separate option. It is somehow linked with chord fingering by Yamaha's logic, and there is no way to separate it.
3. What I want is to copy multiple elements and variations at once from one style to another. For example, I created some audio style with a drum audio loops, now I want to copy everything else from another style with just one click.

I often think about Yamaha and how they manage to sell so many keyboards with so many limitations, but the best thing about it is that I paid for all this as well...   

[BogdanH]

hello alfaholic

..how they manage to sell so many keyboards with so many limitations..

-probably because other brands have similar limitations? 

Joke aside... I don't know other keyboards brands, but have experience with some other Yamaha products and I can agree & confirm: Yamaha is very poor on software supporting their products. One just need to take a look on YEM "features", for example. There's YEM and that's all there is.
So, creativity (designing original sounds/styles) can be very frustrating in this regard. These "arranger" keyboards are ment for musicians who collect styles they need, adapt them a bit, and play the gigs.
Me too, I'd like to have some software so I could create styles/voices on PC and listen the result directly on PSR via USB. Hey, I'd be happy if I could at least check styles from PC and not to load packs one by one to find the one I look after. I mean, listening styles as midi files isn't some solution...

Thanks for reading.

[panos]

I guess in style magic this procedure and other stuff will be easier alfaholic than doing it on the keyboard.
http://www.midisoft.pl/en/

On the keyboard for saving time and not to go back and forth and finding the folder and the style you want to copy from,I am doing this on my s750:

While you are in the tab Assembly of style creator,
press Main A button and at the pop up window called section choose all.
All buttons of the style will become red.
Choose the part of the style you want to copy-paste.
The same copied part(eg part rhy2-Main A) will now apply to all mains,fill ins etc.
Without saving the new style yet
press again Main A for all lights to be green again.
Now press Main B and choose part main B,Press Main C and choose part Main C etc,
for all channels.
After you finish is ok to save the new style.

Maybe if a keyboard has a ...keyboard with letters on it,a mouse,windows 10 istalled,few or more extra kilos,parts,price for the extra software, we might see one some day that is an arranger,a synthesizer,a digital piano and a Church Organ at the same time.

Untill then all we can ask is probably good sounds.good styles and reliabilty.

In war games like World of Tanks that I used to play on the pc,
if the graphics caused the frames to lower down just for a few milliseconds while I was trying to shoot the enemy tank,I missed the shot and I was just dead!!

In our keyboards if the keyboard "freezes" just for a few milliseconds then we might hear a C3 note instead of a A2 note, an 8th note instead of a 32th note, a random sound from an electric guitar while we play a piano sound etc.
That never happened to me yet

[alfaholic]

Thanks...

Ah, they all have limitations, do not worry about that.
I am working with almost all brands professionally so I know them very well, and I am aware that whichever you choose there will be some compromises. However Yamaha's way of doing things is so illogical from time to time, almost the same as Korg engineer's ears and sound quality perception, or Roland's way of doing things without sampler for two decades, or Ketron's business model where they have some great idea but they are even worse than Yamaha, they do not think having transpose in style editor is a nice thing to have in 2019.

The problem with Yamaha is not about us asking for much, but about them not wanting to give us some basic things other brands have for years, or decades.
It is both, inability to creatively produce resources for their keyboards, also the way their arrangers are used when playing LIVE, not very fast experience. At the same time it is very logical thing to do if you have many custom packs to sell, you do not want users to be able to make anything without tears.

As for Windows 10, keyboard and mouse, well this is simply not true. Take for example that small, and affordable Roland E-A7 and look at what that brilliant keyboard have to offer, and you will see how powerful editing is, how good it sounds, and how fast it is to work with, or play live.
Yamaha's case is not the rule, it is an exception I believe. They have great package overall, and that is why they are selling well, but not all over the world. In some countries they simply do not exist just because of this weak editing, while at some other countries they rule. As with everything else...

But wait, if I copy to all it will copy only MAIN A to all, then MAIN B to all, and so on, it will not copy MAIN A to MAIN A, MAIN B to MAIN B and so on?
Thanks for suggestion...

[panos]

Yes it won't copy the right parts.It will copy Main A to all parts.
Then you must change the parts one by one unfortunately.
But this way you don't have to exit the style again and search the one you want to copy the parts for Rhy2.

The A7 looks beautiful and sounds nice but is it sounds as good as the s775 or the pa700?
Guitars,Orchestra,organ sounds etc are that good and "realistic" for playing pop,rock,dance,jazz,classical music?
I believe the basic thing about all insruments is the sound they can produce,
and I guess people choose their favourite sounds when they buy an instrument.

[alfaholic]

Thanks... 

People buy instruments for many different reasons, and those reasons change not only from country to country, but each city has some specifics because different music is played, furthermore we all have our perception of reality, and our own taste. This is not just about factory styles, and sounds, but what keyboard can do besides that, editing capabilities and peripherals such as vocal processors, speakers, keys, buttons, etc.
For example, in South-Eastern Europe and Middle East people usually buy Korg Pa, in Western Europe they mostly buy Yamaha, Roland E-A7 can be found in Philippines, Indonesia and that part of the planet, while across both Americas the situation is little bit more mixed. This is not some general rule, just what I noticed over 10 years of working with people all around the globe.

For South-Eastern Europe and Middle East it is important for keyboard to have powerful editing because 90% of factory stuff is simply ignored. I understand this maybe sounds strange to you, but this is reality. In those cases what is really important is powerful editing, RAM memory so people can use custom made sampled instruments, and drum kits, and above all custom made styles. And here you have the main reason people buy Korg Pa, yes it does not sound as good as Yamaha or Roland, but it is well made, it has powerful editing, a lot of RAM these days with ability to compress 16 bit data, now it has disk streaming as well, and it is full with features people like, TC Helicon and other great peripherals.
With that being said, not all custom sampled data they use is of good quality, in most cases it is not, but what is important is the manner they get with that sampled material, suddenly the music sounds familiar, the sounds sound familiar, then they have what they want and factory stuff is irrelevant. There is also Korg's ability to create many different scales, to make real thirds, advanced portamento, and much greater sampling and sound editing capabilities, more open system, Korg is the right choice of course.
One more thing about Korg, many people I know simply do not like "CD like quality" of Yamaha, they want something more "natural" as they say, something more like "live band with all its flaws", something that sounds more raw.

As for Roland E-A7, well it is not very popular keyboard nor it exists for too long so there is no consensus about where it belongs because it is Roland's comeback to arranger market. This is very strange keyboard at first sight with those two 90's displays, however the way it reproduces the sound is simply magical. I am not religious about my equipment nor in general, so when I say magical I mean it sounds subjectively good, but it can be translated to numbers and measuring units of course. It has internal +6db and +12db amplification for imported WAV files, so when sampling you do not need to use limiter to crush audio files in order to get the same RMS as factory ones. This makes the files sound thick, and full, without crushing low frequencies, drums can retain their natural transients, and sustain of the instruments sounds more natural. Other than that, each time you use that amplification the keyboard applies very soft internal limiter to each sample, so you end up not only with much greater quality WAV file because you did not squash them with limiting to achieve high RMS, but you get internal soft limiting fo each sample individually, which produces some really magical results.
All this together with MakeupTools makes this small and affordable keyboard much better keyboard for me personally because I use high quality sampled drums and instruments far better than any factory stuff in any modern arranger, so for anyone who want to use custom sampled sounds and drum kits, and then the results get much, much better than any other keyboard on the market.
And that is the answer to your question, it is much better than Pa700 and S-775, and much worse at the same time, depending of what you need, what are your plans, and what are your expectations. But when it comes to ROM base, it is in the middle between S-775 and Pa700 for me personally.
When it comes to ROM base, for me personally styles, drums, strings, acoustic guitars are the best on S-775, piano, rhodes, distortion guitars and organs, also great Makeup Tools on E-A7, and as I said earlier great editing and other capabilities are best on Pa700.

You mentioned realism, well it is very subjective category because we all have different lights in our heads turning on when we say "realistic". For me personally all of the keyboards mentioned here do not sound realistic. Far from it. I hear it is a ROMpler after 1 second of listening, while after 2 or 3 seconds I recognize whether it is Korg, Roland, or Yamaha.
However you are right, if we talk only about ROMplers Yamaha indeed has the best ROM base, and their way of sampling, attention to details, and realism is not matched by any other brand. Besides that it sounds good right after you take it out of the box so it is understandable people like it and with a reason believe Yamaha makes great arranger keyboards, which is true for most people because most people do not use any custom sampled instruments and drum kits ever.

Long story short, there is no right or wrong here, it all depends of what you need of course. But one thing is constant, there is no need to be apologetic about any brend, because we customers want the best for our money.
We want better ROM base from Korg, we want higher grade arranger from Roland, and we want Yamaha to be more open about their OS, and more user concentric, to give us abilities to create content, to be more creative, and of course to use their keyboards faster and with more logic.
This is not a blasphemy, we can say it loud, and we should. 

[BogdanH]

I really enjoyed reading your post alfaholic.
Before I continue.. I'm very happy with my S775. I don't "need" better keyboard, nor would I play better on some "better" keyboard. I say that, so one wouldn't think I came to this forum to bash Yamaha (or any other brand). At the same time I'm too old to be a "fanboy" of some brand (for something I needed to pay for).
I have no idea about non-Yamaha arrangers, but.. I'm simply amazed by Yamaha's voice (instruments) quality. Most acoustic ("real" instruments, that is) sound just.. real. On the other hand, some acoustic instruments are just off. Accordions, for example. Most of them have too much hall/reverb/whatever added by default.. to give folk-party feeling perhaps? Anyway, those who know how this accordion (just an example)
http://harmonika.najblog.si/wp-content/blogs.dir/2047/files/harmonika-pecjak/harmonika-pecjak3.jpg
-sounds in real, they will confirm no similar sound exist in PSR.
But as said, in general, I'm pleased with PSR voices.

Styles... no, I'm not into techno-house-boom-boom music. So, what's left? As alfaholic said (if I understood him correctly): few basic rhythms with a lot of variations, where most of them don't really sound authentic -could be from some 200euro Casio as well. Yes, one can buy many styles from Yamaha... let me just say: those who made Mexican styles at Yamaha, they should listen mexican music first. Just crossed my mind: I don't think there's a single good reggae style...
And again, it's always personal opinion. Which, again, underlines what alfaholic said: we need a reasonable way to create own styles. Doesn't matter how bad they might sound.
Saying all above, I would buy S775 again! Now.. let me play "La paloma" by using rumba style from Romanian pack 

[alfaholic]

Thanks... I somehow like outsiders, so I think S-775 and E-A7, both around $1000, are great arrangers. They offer so much for so little money.

I have two more problems with YEM, and Genos/PSR if someone could give me some help with this...

1. When making custom drums in YEM I set snare envelopes to my liking, however in Style Creator when I try to edit EG Decay 1, and EG Decay 2, they do not respond at all. The same with Genos.
if I understand well Receive Note Off should be ON, but still no luck.

2. When tweaking Delay DSP effects and save the registration, Feedback settings is back to zero when registration is changed. Also the same with some AMP simulation effects, output goes to default value.
Is this some bug, or I am doing something wrong?