Soundcreation ... with Yem..

[Bachus]

So whats possible with the Latest version of Yem?

Can i create my own SA1 sounds?
What types of samples can i import?
Can i make my own revo drums?
What filter types can be used, all the filters AWM offers for Montgae to?

[Joe H]

I found the easiest type of samples to work with are sf2 because many are already multi-sampled/layered and looped.  But you still have a lot of work to do in tweaking the sounds for the arranger keyboard so they are compatible with other pack Voices and the Preset Voices.

Joe H

[rodrigo.b]

So whats possible with the Latest version of Yem?

Can i create my own SA1 sounds?
What types of samples can i import?
Can i make my own revo drums?
What filter types can be used, all the filters AWM offers for Montgae to?

If SA1 means Super Articulation 1, I'm sorry to say that we can't create S.Art sounds and that is really sad 😞

[Bachus]

If SA1 means Super Articulation 1, I'm sorry to say that we can't create S.Art sounds and that is really sad 😞

Still not?
Its quite easy to do so in my modx..even with onboard edditing tools.. no Yem required.

[pjd]

Still not?
Its quite easy to do so in my modx..even with onboard edditing tools.. no Yem required.

Unfortunately, MODX Expanded Articulation is not the same as Super Articulation. I had a short exchange with Yamaha folks who summarized, "Yep, the underlying hardware is the same, but the sound engine layers are different." Super Articulation has several tricks that are beyond Expanded Articulation (e.g., articulations triggered by intervals).

That doesn't mean we don't want or need Super Articulation editing in YEM! Yamaha needs to provide greater access to all of the waveforms not just waveform elements present in Regular voices. YEM doesn't provide a "database" of waveforms like MODX, Montage, etc. and certainly not a list of waveforms in the data list PDF.

Myself, Vali and a few others could spend hours telling Yamaha what's missing in YEM. If Yamaha want to prove it to themselves, they should have a "professional sound designer" use YEM for one week. They'll get a punch list a mile long...

Hey, hey, Bachus, that's for initiating this topic.

-- pj

[Bachus]

Unfortunately, MODX Expanded Articulation is not the same as Super Articulation. I had a short exchange with Yamaha folks who summarized, "Yep, the underlying hardware is the same, but the sound engine layers are different." Super Articulation has several tricks that are beyond Expanded Articulation (e.g., articulations triggered by intervals).

That doesn't mean we don't want or need Super Articulation editing in YEM! Yamaha needs to provide greater access to all of the waveforms not just waveform elements present in Regular voices. YEM doesn't provide a "database" of waveforms like MODX, Montage, etc. and certainly not a list of waveforms in the data list PDF.

Myself, Vali and a few others could spend hours telling Yamaha what's missing in YEM. If Yamaha want to prove it to themselves, they should have a "professional sound designer" use YEM for one week. They'll get a punch list a mile long...

Hey, hey, Bachus, that's for initiating this topic.

-- pj

First thing whats wrong with Yem is that its trying to combine 2 things in a single program..
- there is the package manager..
- there is the editor and sound creator

What i would like to see is the package manager work with incrementals..
i.e only changing what needs to be changed..
So you could changeanything from a single setting in a saved sound
To fully replace the whole soundmemmory

I would also love to see an ipad based sound editor/creator..
(they could learn a lot from the piano division in this aspect)
Which allows you to change and save sounds dirextly in the genos..

The whole principal behind the Yem is just illogical in modern technollogy because it is based on the restrictions of older technollogy..

[Joe H]

... The whole principal behind the Yem is just illogical in modern technollogy because it is based on the restrictions of older technollogy..

It may very well be intentional.  Yamaha know what it is doing.



Joe H

[valimaties]

First thing whats wrong with Yem is that its trying to combine 2 things in a single program..
- there is the package manager..
- there is the editor and sound creator
...

Hi Bachus.

I really don't think is a bad idea to make a single software to do a lot of things.
The software interface of managing packs in YEM is very simple, intuitive and RESTRICTIVE in the same way. I like the "simple" and "intuitive" therms, but I don't like (ever) Restrictive. We have to do little tricks (I don't know for how long) to export some of contents in its original state (styles, midi, etc).
It is normal (in my vision) to use the same software which "knows" your pack's content and know what to do with it. But voice editor is very limited in showing us all the existing parameters in a voice and let us tweak in our desire.
I don't like Yamaha's idea that ONLY they are sound engineers and they know how to make voice sounds for Yamaha keyboards. They are a lot of people which have very good samples and resources (like real instruments and studio stuff to record them as individual keys samples), but we are limited by this YEM software and we can't do anything good.
We have important parameters in UVF files in trigger block (and not only here)

which does not appear in YEM, and this was already discussed a lot of times. But is Yamaha's choice to make us buy from YamahaMusicSoft site and not to create ourselves.

I would love to see a FULL uvf file, with all parameters inside. Because if a node is OFF, its childs does not appear . 

Regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

I recognise that Vali..

That is why in general i stepped away from internal sound expansions towards external sounds. Modules at first and later on mac and ipad..
Big advantage, if you change keyboards, thise sounds are still there


But wouldn't it be nice if we indeed where free to create the sounds we want/need inside the arranger itselvrs? So far only the montage line allows this. Driven by financial reasons.

[Sokratis1974]

I working also with YEM to create my sounds however the limitations is so many.. 
1) Destructive play samples when import a SF2 with multiple velocities zones (with stereo or mono samples).
2) Not Key Off, trigger samples.. In Preset Sounds exist this function...
3) Not Edit the Insert FX but absolutely basic choices as the selection of the type FX and Send volume FX (Reverb, Chorus). and not edit it.
4) Not edit  S.Art and of course cannot create user S.Art sounds..
5) The manually Import Samples is very exhausting and of course we cannot import multiple samples but only one by one..
Therefore if you want to create a Grand Piano with multiple velocities is very difficult and very exhausting...
6) Cannot to make legato trigger.. I do not mean a simple legato like mono synth sound etc, but activate Legato Trigger zone (maybe with different Legato Generator like Korg) when we play legato on keyboard like Guitar, and more (like Preset Sounds..
7) The Envelopes (separate in Generators and not in Common) is little bit difficult to use and it's not very smooth to use...
I think the way they work all this is very primitive, for example if you want to change a sound from your Pack (not Common function but from a Generator for example the Volume) cannot change a function of a separate Generator on the Keyboard but only from YEM save again as Pack and install all again.....
All this and so many more in my old Korg Pa3x is possible on Keyboard, with very easy way...
I think that Yamaha has to change reasonably to all of them...

[pjd]

I working also with YEM to create my sounds however the limitations is so many.. 

Thank you for posting your list. I agree and would like to see Yamaha make these improvements to YEM.

My own issues with YEM are described in:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-yem/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-an-example/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-blending-the-split-point/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-xml-notepad/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/creating-mega-voice-yem/

All the best -- pj

[Joe H]

I think Yamaha is behind the curve on understanding the contemporary arranger buyer/player. We have heard so many people here say that they just want to "sit and play".  That's OK with me.

If Yamaha gave us the tools like they did with the Motif line of keyboards (they could just port-over some of that technology to the arranger).

This kind of stuff has already been hashed-over several times.  The bottom line is Yamaha don't have to start from scratch so how expensive could it be to add some real editing tools on-board and a built-in Arp Editor, as well as software upgrades to add new features.

If Yamaha want to be competitive in the future, I think these features will be a necessity.

For those who just want to sit and play or gig... you will still be able do that with the next generation arranger.

Joe H

[Sokratis1974]

I agree. Yamaha must to prove that the Genos is a (New Generation Workstation) as he advertises...
Up to today the Genos is a typical arranger keyboard, with very good sound quality...
Thats all..
The limitations (for edit and for developers) remain so many...
However I hope in the future of Genos... I am waiting for the news...
I can not believe it will remain that way...

[soundphase]

Look on YouTube the number of Genos users.... Yamaha doesn't need to provide their internal editor to sell their product. Why would they take the risk to give to the world the tool that ensures them to sell new workstations with new sounds ?

[Bachus]

Look on YouTube the number of Genos users.... Yamaha doesn't need to provide their internal editor to sell their product. Why would they take the risk to give to the world the tool that ensures them to sell new workstations with new sounds ?

There is the current sales.. and there is an unexplored market share..
IF yamaha upgraded their onboard edditing, a chunck of the other brands market would flow to yamaha

Strangely, thats even more a fact for PSR-S series, where the Korg PA is selling very well for quite some time now, for exactly these reasons.

If they want to give Genos sales another push...
An editor app on the ipad, or onboard AWM2 edditing like on Montage would make them quite some money..
I doubt however if anyone outside the current community would notice any YEM changes..

i think Yem is a great tool for package management..
But not so for edditing and sound creation

[valimaties]

Look on YouTube the number of Genos users.... Yamaha doesn't need to provide their internal editor to sell their product. Why would they take the risk to give to the world the tool that ensures them to sell new workstations with new sounds ?

Hi Soundphase...

Look also on Korg PA4X users on youtube... I said some time ago not to compare anymore Yamaha with Korg, because of their level of sound. But we don't have to look only to factory sound, we definitely have to look at user's choice also. If user needs are more than factory provide, and users have its potential to make sounds for its keyboard, WHY you don't let him to do and you block him?!

What happened with Korg when they provided firmware updates which added new functions or parameters in OS?! I tell you, a lot of new users "arrived", and they have bought their product.
Because this is what the user want (a lot of users): that its keyboard provider to listen on demands, and to provide those users their choices.
Ok, I am also on the list of users which has a list with "I don't like" on Korg, but I also have a list with "I do like on Korg". I really don't like its case of aluminum, which make it very heavy, I don't like keyboard, Yamaha's keys are better for my performances, is more soft, the graphical interface on Yamaha is much much better and friendly than Korg's. But, really now, Sound Creator in Korg is far better than Yamaha, because Yamaha restrict a lot of parameters, Korg doesn't, Sound Creator is directly in keyboard, which is a big advantage, Korg's Style Creator is better delimited/defined, and I tell you, Guitar Mode is far better than Yamaha's Guitar Mode, splitting each variation by type of measure is an advantage to Korg, number of measures on fills/break, also, definitely the Style Recorder is at a new level than Style Creator which Yamaha provided to us as a function in keyboard. By having the fills buttons separately by variations buttons, is more easy to use one of the fills with one of the variations, and they have the option to setup which variation will be triggered after a fill press (I press fill 3 and will trigger variation 1, or I press fill 2 and will trigger variation 4).
And I spoke here about keyboard features included, not keyboard vs keyboard and PC.

IMO, you -> Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc, as a keyboard factory, have to make a product which starts with your basic stuff of the new model, which your engineers think of, but after you launch it, you have to hear users demands, to know what is good and what is bad in your model. And try to repair which have to be repair and to upgrade something which you forgot or you didn't think of, but user did.
This has to be the relation between a keyboard producer and a user. User's feedback always do the difference

I don't understand why Yamaha is so restrictive with its users?! 

Besat regards,
Vali