Hello everyone

[Sander89]

Hello,

I am Sander, 28 years old, and i am from the Netherlands.

Since a year i own a Tyros 5-76keys

This week i started using expansion packs, as the price for the fl1024 module suddenly dropped 60-70%

Since the first day i am very frustrated with the poor piano sounds, it's a real shame for a Tyros.

I tried a l lot of voices, the steinway voice from fransesco massal, but it all misses the realism, string resonance etc.

So i ordered the CMS Grand Piano 1, from cms sounddesign, yes, it's 1gb almost, but i happily offer up that space, if i finally can enjoy a good piano sound.

I hope i have nice time here on psrtutorial, that i can find good tips, i would love to get advice or help once i need it, and if i'm able, i'm willing to help another member ofcourse.

I registered to gain access to the forum, but also i would love to try the voices, genos styles for tyros etc etc.

So thanks for everyone that keeps up the good work over here

Greetings, Sander

[panos]

Hi Sander and wellcome to the forum my friend 
You edited the voice/equalizer settings and layer other sounds and still didn't you find a piano sound that you might like in there?
Arrangers suppose to emulate hundrends and hundrends of organs and play styles while digital pianos series are dedicated just to the sound of a piano.
So don't be "cruel" with your Tyros and have fun

[DrakeM]

Welcome to the forum Sander.

Our forum has a  Home Page  you may not know about which contains a lot of useful information found here:

http://psrtutorial.com/index.html

Be sure to check out those Home Pages as there are many "How To Lessons" regarding your keyboard's special abilities.


You ought to consider becoming a Supporting Member to gain access to the Charter Members Only section of the forum with thousands of extra Yamaha styles.

... the easiest way is to be a support member:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/cdrom/index.html

By making any kind of purchase from the store, you help support the PSR Tutorial site and this forum:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/cdrom/productsum.html

If you want more excellent styles, as well as hundreds of PDF songbooks, more than you can imagine, become a supporting member, you'll be glad you did.

Regards
Drake

[Sander89]

Thanks for your welcome messages.

I will consider to support in a later stage for sure, right now i'm finding my way around, but i like it very much already.

I tried a lot of things, also multiple layers, but i know nothing about eq adjusting, master compressor etc, and i have no understanding YET about how to create voices etc.

I want to learn, but there are so much options, if i adjust 1 thing over here, all earlier adjustments over there are wrong again.

Its a maze, really haha.

How to find the right setting for the ouput itself.

Only after that i can further try to adjust a voice to my liking.

I use Yamaha hs50m monitors btw, maybe they are more difficult because of its extra hardware switches etc, i don't know.

Also, my demands on piano quality are a little extreme, i give you that.. i want string resonance, i want to hear wood, and all the natural voices a piano creates.

It is a keyboard, but 90% of the time i play solo piano, without styles etc.

I have installed the CMS Grand Piano 1  package, it really is amazing.
Well worth the entire GB of flash memory imo.

From my monitors, i just don't like the eq settings, but as mentioned, i have no clue what to do, but i recorded some waves, played them on my home theater, it's really almost an exact copy of a steinway d-274.

Great pack!
But not many users have it, am i right?

Nearly impossible to find any demo's or info/reviews on it.

[Sander89]

Maybe worth mentioning, i played keyboard from 1998-2006, first i had the psr-190, after that the psr-2100.

In 2006 i decided to quit, and sold everything.
A few years later, it started to get back at me, i wanted to play again.

So i bought a midi keyboard, to play with vst's. I did not understand the daw software at all, tried quite a few, and the setup was a real hassle with driver incompatibility etc.

So i saved up, and bought the tyros.

I had no idea i would almost only be playing piano, and it's surely not the intention to keep it that way, but piano, for me, is the best instrument to learn on, to get back at my old level, and i also started to learn boogie, and some classical, so with left melodies in F.

[DrakeM]

It is no secrete that Yamaha puts their BEST piano sound in the "Clavinova". They have told us that and will never put their best piano in the Genos, Tyros or PSR series.

The Tyros is an arranger use for what it was designed for and you will be a happy camper. It isn't a piano .. but if you put some fill in around it's sound I am sure you will be most happy with it.

I use the PSR S950 and love the guitar sounds it can make. I too could complain that the guitar sounds are not perfect BUT to the people that I perform to are blown away at what comes out of my keyboard.

Learn to use the keyboard as an arranger and all of its options to make complete backings to your piano sound .. that is what is was designed to do.

Regards
Drake

[Sander89]

Hello Drake,

Yes, i would love to learn to get more out of my tyros, after all, it is a magnificent machine.

I do use other instruments as well as styles, i am just still not as used to it as i was to my psr-2100 over 10 years ago.

I still make a lot of mistakes while doing something simple, like pressing a fill button or something like that, the whole song goes to hell, and i have to start over.

I don't play enough yet to get comfortable with it again i guess haha.

That is why i am considering taking some lessons again, first to bring up my level of playing, i still havent got back to my old level, and that is frustrating, while on the other hand, i also learned a few new things already, so that's nice.

But i am very happy for now with my big piano expansion pack, so no complains there.

Only my mixing console (eq, compressor etc) really needs better settings, so i have to look into that, how to do it properly

Or find someone in my area that can help me, but i am from the netherlands, i don't know how many dutch members the forum has..

Regards
Sander

[Sander89]

I already tried some settings people posted in the Tyros 5 subforum, and it does sound better, but it needs more tweaking still.

[panos]

If you like to play like a pianist and not familiar with the split point, you could try the full keyboard mode or the Ai full keyboard mode while playing with the accompaniment style.

Full keyboard mode:
This mode allows you to play a little more like a traditional pianist would, instead of there being a split point on the left where your chord control is, the accompaniment is triggered anywhere on the keyboard, so if you wanted to you can play a chord with your right hand and a single bass note on the left. As long a three notes of the chord are played somewhere on the keyboard it will trigger the accompaniment.

A.I. full keyboard mode:
This is a combination of full keyboard mode and AI fingered mode. The keyboard will try and anticipate what chord you want to play next particularly with a rolling bass line. Admittedly this does cause some problems occasionally when it doesn't play the chord you wanted.

http://tyrostipsters.blogspot.gr/2014/06/a-guide-to-fingering-styles-on-yamaha.html

I don't play that way but some members use this function of Yamaha Arrangers.
I don't know if someone can give us instructions and a demo song of how he plays
using the full keyboard mode. 

Or maybe you could just a keep the drums of a style and mute the other channels
or playing along with a midi song/file by muting the melody of the song.

As for the voice settings maybe is just something that you take some time to experiment with duffferent settings and see what  a "reverb", a "release" or a "chorus" for example,
can do to each voice that makes the voice sound better or worst.
Same with equalizer settings.
This is the way that programs work also on Vst's to alter a voice.
(They also use words like "reaverb","release" etc)
for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biOWWsnN1BA

or just a simple tip to alter a piano voice on an Arranger:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IICDRYdAEZ4

Also if you hear a song on T5 played by a member with  a sound that you might like you can ask him/her to give you the file with the style and OTS settings or instructions of what settings he/she have used to produce that sound if it is on a different model.

You can still connect your TYros 5 on your pC and play any sound that you may have on a DAW.
Maybe 1 gigabyte is a "big" file for the T5, but not for a computer with a descent sound card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUI6y4PDBRA&t=987s

[Sander89]

Hello Panos,

Thanks for the tip, i will definitely give that full keyboard mode a try.

I do understand a little what most functions do, but i just don't like the tweaking as much as i like playing, so i normally accept a voice for what it is.

Tweaking also seems endless, because the fit also varies on the style you play.

My piano for instance, needs a little damped eq, so it really sounds like a steinway grand.

I have cd's from the real grand piano's which this is sampled with, and i am trying to get as close to that sound as possible by adjusting my eq etc.

I also have ivory grand piano's on my pc, and i am willing to try to make a bosendorfer, bechstein or other sample pack for the t5 once, but that's something for another day.

I personally dont think 1gb is much, but i read a lot of replies from other people that do not want to install a 1gb piano onto the flash, and i get that, but i don't use any other expansion packs, so i thought, why not.

And, with ivory and the tyros as midi keyboard, i can play through pc as well, but i like to keep it mostly standalone, that why i bought it in the first place.

I had a novation imulse 61 before, i sold it before i got the tyros, but i will get an semi weighted 88 key midi keyboard one day soon, to connect to the tyros, and/or pc, so i will look into the daw's again in a while

Regards Sander

[Sander89]

Oh, and i did tweak some of the default piano's, i used the SA2 ConcertGrand, Live! Grand Piano, SA2 Ambient Piano, and downloaded the concertsteinway from francesco massal, combined with my tweaked SA2 ConcertGrand, it sounded like a real steinway on the surface
Listen closely though, and you will miss the real feel of string resonance etc.

But i think you will never get an detailed sound with samples that just don't have those details.
Or you would twist the sound so far, that you can fake some effects.

I will create a youtube vid sometime soon with the differences between stock, tweaked, and my expansion piano.

Another note, i play all my music with touch sensitivity on Hard2, it also gives it a more realistic feel and sound i think.

[panos]

I would like to listen to your sounds Sander.Good idea!

[Toril S]

Welcome Sander! I also played a PSR 2100 for many years. Still have it, but now play an S970.

[Sander89]

Hello, i made i short clip already, a comparison video between the ConcertGrand and the expansion pack i bought.

I have no experience in creating such video's, adding text, sound under video or pictures, so sorry for the amateur work haha.

And it's a shame the audio gets compressed until 192kbps, it will miss a lot of the original wave file.

https://youtu.be/U9c8sHf8k9o

[Sander89]

Another little comparison, over all octaves, with every octave, i start with the T5 ConcertGrand, and after that i play the CMS Grand Piano 1 Steinway.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[panos]

Nice samples,you can tell the difference but if a single piano sound needs a 1 gigabyte to sound better,
how many terrabytes we will need  for the hundrends/thousands different sounds that we can find for our keyboard?
Yamaha/Korg/Casio/Roland none of them like to use better samples of voices while we can find 3rd party samples that work better with their keyboards.
I just wonder why they just don't copy those samples, or even just buy those companies.
Or why the best piano samples are on their digital pianos and not on their keyboards.

As long I don't have a Tyros 5 to adjust the piano sound I just did some equalizing to your T5 sample on my pc.
One thing I found is that using different sets of headphones or my TV's speakers I needed different equalizer settings for the same sound to make it sound better.
So I don't really know if a sample is more important or the speakers/enviroment/headphones.
For me the most important thing when I listen or play music is just the next chord or the next notes of a melody.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Roger Brenizer]

Hi Sander,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for becoming a member.  I'm sure you're going to learn a great deal about your new Tyros 5 keyboard here on the forum and will experience many pleasurable hours playing it.

You will want to be sure to visit the Home page and check out some of the tutorials you will find links to there.  This link will take you to the Home page of the website: http://psrtutorial.com/

Should you later decide to become a supporting member, which will include lifetime membership, other forum boards will become available to you, as well as a wealth of additional musical knowledge; however, there is absolutely no obligation to do so.  You may also use the following link to discover the full benefit of becoming a Supporting Member of the PSR Tutorial.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,15536.0.html

You will also gain access to an Excel Song Index database, made available to supporting members by our good friend Peter (XeeniX), which presently contains 48,000 plus song titles in over 700 indexed books.  This index is updated often.

In lieu of making a donation only, you may also order any of the websites resources, which can be found at the following link:

http://psrtutorial.com/cdrom/productsum.html

Joe Waters updated "Supporting the PSR Tutorial", on August 27, 2017, which can be found here:

https://psrtutorial.com/cdrom/index.html

Finally, if you would like to be included in our PSR Tutorial Member Map that will allow you to place your Pin on the map, which will disclose your location to other forum members, you'll find information at the following link:

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,41022.msg321765/topicseen.html#msg321765

We are so glad you've decided to become a member and very happy you've decided to become a part of this great forum family.  If you have any questions, then please just ask.  There are many members here that are always very willing to help you.

PS: Please don't use this board to discuss functions of your keyboard.  Please start a new topic in the appropriate board. 

[Sander89]

Hello

Nice tuning, maybe a little too much gain/reverb to my ears. but it can be my speaker setup also.

As i said, a recorded wave file sounds great on my home audio, it's just the output of the monitors that could do better.

But i think i found a config that works for me, at least for now.

A lot of voices already are great, so they wouldn't need 1gb packs imo.
Yamaha uses a smart technology for that i read somewhere, don't know the name?

Just a shame yamaha did not put a decent piano in there as well, the genos for instanct has way better pianos, so they DID listened to the users i think.

Too bad it took untill the 6th generation of the workstation.

Would be nice if they put it in a possible 1.14 update for the tyros 5 after all
.
I don't expect it though

For now, lets end this topic, as we are in fact, off topic, i'm sorry Roger

I will open a new thread on this if i need any more help.

Thank you all for making me feel welcome and helping me