Real Leslie

[Toplayer2]

Hi,

Has anyone tried to use a real Leslie with Genos or other Yamaha keyboard?  To my ears, the DSP simulations are all incredibly fake sounding.

Thanks,
Joe

[Marcus]

On my Tyros 5, I mostly use Rotary Speaker 5, which is quite acceptable to me. The slow/fast speeds and acceleration curves are pretty accurate and authentic sounding to me with this particular DSP.

I have used both a model 147 (tube amp) and Pro 900 (solid state) Leslie speakers with my Tyros 3 and Tyros 4 with the organ voice channeled through the Sub outputs. Both speakers heavy as hell, glad to part ways with them. Nice parked in the rec room at home, but too cumbersome to handle and transport as a musician ages into retirement.

Yes, definitely gave a more authentic sound as apposed to the rotary DSPs, but it depends on the individual. I have a Hammond/Leslie organist background, so I know exactly how that combination should sound, but presently running left and right light-weight powered speaker to the rotary DSPs on my Tyros. You can edit/adjust the rotary DSP plus tweak settings in the Mixing Console to fine tune the characteristics you want out of the rotary speaker/organ voice effect to suit one's taste. Okay, it would be a compromised method to get the Leslie effect, but using the effect in an arranger/style mix while you are playing, most listeners wouldn't notice.

If you want real authentic solo organ and authentic Leslie effect, you may have to lean towards an actual rotating speaker horn or a real Leslie. Again, my real Leslie days are gone and personally I am more than satisfied with the Tyros/Genos organ voices and Leslie effects. Supposedly a new Leslie and distortion effect on the Genos that I need to check out. Also a new Real Reverb DSP that might work well with the organ Leslie voices and effects.

Check out (46:00 - 1:12:36) in this Peter Baartmans demo, solo organ and organ with a style right after. Authentic enough for me.
Yamaha Genos Premiere mit Peter Baartmans - 06.12.2017 - 18:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVq81hUkoEk

Marcus

[pjd]

Has anyone tried to use a real Leslie with Genos or other Yamaha keyboard?  To my ears, the DSP simulations are all incredibly fake sounding.

Hi Joe --

Haven't tried a real Leslie or even a Vent, but the factory DSP settings need serious tweaking. I like a slow ramp up and down in addition to slower horn/rotor speeds. Yamaha voices the rotor speed way too fast.

With some tweaking, I can get it to be acceptable. Like Marcus, there ain't no way I can physically manage a real Leslie anymore for gigging.

All the best -- pj

[Flemming]

Hey Joe.
Your right - the Leslie right out of the box are not impressing! But you can do a lot of tweaking in the direction you like.

I play in a band for fun with Hammond XC3 with a Leslie 860, and that sound you will newer get :-)

For my daily-job I play (until now) Tyros 5 with a NEO ventilator II, that sound you won't get either :-)

But you can get close! Actually I've decided to play Genos without the NEO, because I by tweaking the build in Leslie in Genos, I can get so close, that it works OK - at least for 99,9% of the audience I play for.

Try to check out some of the Leslie variations - and do experiments with the settings. It is hard to give you exact advises because this is very individual, speed, acceleration, angle and so on.

I find some of the alternative Leslies better, but they miss the drive-function - even though it is very week, it is there. But you can try to put on an extra effect in with a light distortion. For some kind of music it will be usable.

Best regards
Flemming

[Toplayer2]

Thank you for your replies Marcus, Paul, and Flemming. I will try tweaking the DSP settings.


Joe

[Marcus]

Back in my crazy days, I searched for years and in classified ads for the ultimate Leslie, the rare Model 950. My Pro Model 900 was heavy enough, but this one was around 400 lbs of Leslie sound and visual wonder. I did finally find one, but it was beyond repair and parts would be been very hard to come by and past on the opportunity. Would of loved to hear this 4 rotor 200 watt RMS wonder, connected to my A100 Hammond organ.

With the technical advancement of the internet and YouTube, I can actually hear and witness this rare anomaly of true Leslie technology. Check out the demo below. Yes, it looked exactly as in the demo from the factory, with optional cool rotor graphics and strobing black lights.

Lights Leslie 950 Action    
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1XqxabUmkA

Marcus

I just watched the video through. The pre-amp combo was the same one used on my Model 900, except the two switches used to control the black lights and strobe effects were used to turn on/off the reverb and the level of reverb. The Model 900 had three amps, top rotor, bottom rotor, and reverb.

[Jean Abdou]

Hi,

Has anyone tried to use a real Leslie with Genos or other Yamaha keyboard?  To my ears, the DSP simulations are all incredibly fake sounding.

Thanks,
Joe

It's hard to achieve it on a hardware to be honest. I personally prefer Apple's Mainstage's B3 organ, with little money you get a really decent sound. On MOTIF XF and Montage you have the chance to digitally route a VOICE to PC. This way you can use much more powerful VST emulations. Yamaha keyboards, in general, don't sound good when it comes to organs.

[soryt]

I have a Motion sound T3 pro , that's the most compact way to get the real leslie sound
Ther isnt any way to get this electronic like the real thing .

Here i have made a recording with the Tyros5 ,

https://youtu.be/7I8NwQLXgT8

Soryt 

[markstyles]

To get the real Leslie sound you need a real mechanical real life set-up..  You can mix a Leslie'd virtual instrument with other instruments, and it can sound OK..  But there is nothing like the real magic of a rotating horn, and baffle.. For the majority of people, the expense and weight of a real physical set-up, is too much..

I bought a net-ventilator, cause I heard it was the best virtual simulator.. Although it is nice,  I just went back to using the Leslie effect on Tyros (and now Genos)

[Toplayer2]

Nice demo Soryt!

I experimented with tweaking a drawbar organ to match as closely as I could the JazzRotary JS voice.  No amount of adjustment of the Leslie simulator DSP came anywhere close to the sound of the sampled tremulant in the JazzRotary JS voice.  Of course a disadvantage of sampled trem is the lack of gradual speedup and slowing when switching.  For me, the much more authentic sound with the sampled version is well worth the tradeoff.

Joe

[Pianoman]

Back in my crazy days, I searched for years and in classified ads for the ultimate Leslie, the rare Model 950. My Pro Model 900 was heavy enough, but this one was around 400 lbs of Leslie sound and visual wonder. I did finally find one, but it was beyond repair and parts would be been very hard to come by and past on the opportunity. Would of loved to hear this 4 rotor 200 watt RMS wonder, connected to my A100 Hammond organ.

With the technical advancement of the internet and YouTube, I can actually hear and witness this rare anomaly of true Leslie technology. Check out the demo below. Yes, it looked exactly as in the demo from the factory, with optional cool rotor graphics and strobing black lights.

Lights Leslie 950 Action    
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1XqxabUmkA

Marcus

I just watched the video through. The pre-amp combo was the same one used on my Model 900, except the two switches used to control the black lights and strobe effects were used to turn on/off the reverb and the level of reverb. The Model 900 had three amps, top rotor, bottom rotor, and reverb.

I had a Hammond B3 and a Leslie 950 back in 1977.
I had bought them in Dubai, of all places.
I used them in a band playing 70s Rock, Soul, and everything Santana.
The sound was Incredible, I miss that rig to this very day.
Had to sell it to the club owner when I moved back to Germany.
Too heavy to travel with.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas.
Pianoman.

[gerarde]

Joe,
I have modified the EFFECT REAL ROTARY.
I changed the slow-fast time of horn and the fast-slow time of horn.
I did this by going to voice edit, clicked on effect, changed to REAL ROTARY, clicked on the Icon next to it, went to page 2 of the parameters that can be changed.
This really helps getting the sound much closer to a real leslie.

Most of the presets change the leslie speed instantaneously.
That is not how a real leslie works.
Altering the parameters, I mentioned, you can change these to suit, and will give you the ramp up and ramp down speed you want.

Gerard

[Pianoman]

Hello Gerard.

Does the Genos also have the effect of the big rotary wheel, which accelerates and slows down at a different speed than the horns?

Because that's what creates the beauty of a Leslie sound.
Just a question, because I still don't have a Genos yet.

My dealer has skipped town, presumably just for a holiday break.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas.
Pianoman.

[gerarde]

Pianoman,
There is a horn speed slow, woofer speed slow, horn speed fast, woofer speed fast, and slow-fast and fast-slow for horn.
It does not have sloe-fast or fast-slow for woofer.
But, with the parameters that are there, it is a lot closer to what it should be.

And Merry Christmas to you too,
Gerard

[gerarde]

Here is a recording of how I changed the rotary settings.

Gerard

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Toplayer2]

Here is a recording of how I changed the rotary settings.

Gerard

Hi Gerard,

Thanks for going to the trouble to post a demo.  You did a good job emulating the acceleration and deceleration times for upper and lower rotors.  At the end of the day, for me the sampled Leslie in voices like the JazzRotary JS still sound much more like a real B3/145 apart from the ballistics.  If a particular tune would benefit from the speed-up/down effects, then the Real Rotary DSP may be a better choice.

Thanks again,
Joe

[Pianoman]

Thanks Gerard for taking the time to make this demo.
It sounds good.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[gerarde]

Thanks Joe and Pianoman,

It sounds a lot like my 147rv Leslie I used that always needed oil. LOL
I had a Y connector to use it between my Hammond C3 and my guitar.
I really liked playing my guitar through the Leslie.
And for my guitar, I had a Y connector between the Leslie and a Fender guitar amp.

Gerard