Q: has Anyone modified Genos/SX900 styles so they work with MONTAGE sound sets?

[nonchai]

Clearly one challenge would be figuring out how to convert midi that uses MEGAVOICE instruments - as those tracks use the same MIDI to address more than one articulation.

But .. doable..., maybe VARRANGER can do this? or some style editing/conversion tool?

Why - you might ask?

well so that one could use say an arranger app like VARRANGER or GigLad to load and play such styles but Ising a MONTAGE as the sound source?

https://deltarray.com. ( giglad website )

[pjd]

If you look (or search) among the Montage/MODX Performances, you'll see Performance names that begin with "Mega". These are Mega Voices. Study their inner design and you'll see that the Mega's have the same structure as arranger MegaVoices.

— pj

[Patt22]

Hello,
Look here:
https://www.groovyband.live/

This version for the Modx/Montage, it can load Yamaha sff2 styles! And plays articulations and round robin but above all Look at the modification structure of the 8 arranger tracks... on each variation, each track you can swap the arrangement coming from Variations A, B, C, D ! With 8x2 OTS Etc...

https://www.groovyband.live/modx/

Patrick

[richkeys]

GroovyBand only runs on Windows, not Mac, so forget it for me. In my case, I am interested in the opposite. I want to try to bring over some modern performance patterns & arps from my MODX into my SX900. I am wondering if I can record a MIDI song file on MODX, then bring that into the MIDI to Style application and and see what happens. Just experimenting, not looking for polished styles.

Rich

[groovyband.live]

Hello,
Look here:
https://www.groovyband.live/

This version for the Modx/Montage, it can load Yamaha sff2 styles! And plays articulations and round robin but above all Look at the modification structure of the 8 arranger tracks... on each variation, each track you can swap the arrangement coming from Variations A, B, C, D ! With 8x2 OTS Etc...

https://www.groovyband.live/modx/

Patrick

Additionally, the MODX/Montage version (https://www.groovyband.live/modx/) comes with 1800+ top quality (no fillers!!) sounds, specifically developed for arranger use. They include FMX sounds, and patches to emulate XG Mega voices (with many articulations) and drumkits. All sounds have 2 variations and have preprogrammed 2 insert DSPs.
You can load any SFF2 style and it will be faithfully reproduced, sometimes even better than in the original HW arrangers, given the top notch sounds and abundant DSP power (32 inserts on Montage, 24 on MODX). You can then further enhance it with all the editing capabilities/features Groovyband offers (and you can only dream of on HW arrangers with 20+ year old firmware).

For those interested: Check the online manual, videos to see it in action, and download the demo.

There is also a version to enhance Yamaha arrangers: https://www.groovyband.live/xg/

[rodrigo.b]

Additionally, the MODX/Montage version (https://www.groovyband.live/modx/) comes with 1800+ top quality (no fillers!!) sounds, specifically developed for arranger use. They include FMX sounds, and patches to emulate XG Mega voices (with many articulations) and drumkits. All sounds have 2 variations and have preprogrammed 2 insert DSPs.
You can load any SFF2 style and it will be faithfully reproduced, sometimes even better than in the original HW arrangers, given the top notch sounds and abundant DSP power (32 inserts on Montage, 24 on MODX). You can then further enhance it with all the editing capabilities/features Groovyband offers (and you can only dream of on HW arrangers with 20+ year old firmware).

For those interested: Check the online manual, videos to see it in action, and download the demo.

There is also a version to enhance Yamaha arrangers: https://www.groovyband.live/xg/

Is there a version to play korg styles on Yamaha and viceversa?

[overover]

... There is also a version to enhance Yamaha arrangers: https://www.groovyband.live/xg/

Hi groovyband.live,

According to the comparison table on the website, loading Yamaha Styles is only supported by the "PLATINUM" edition of "Groovyband Live! for MODX/Montage". Why is this feature not implemented in the STD and PRO versions? And why only SFF2 styles? For users of newer Yamaha arranger keyboards, it goes without saying that SFF1 styles are also supported.

If you open the manual for the XG version on the website and then click on "Yamaha styles", it says "This feature is not yet implemented." Can you say if and when this feature will also be available in the XG version, i.e. for use with Yamaha arranger keyboards?


Best regards,
Chris

[groovyband.live]

Is there a version to play korg styles on Yamaha and viceversa?

No.

[groovyband.live]

According to the comparison table on the website, loading Yamaha Styles is only supported by the "PLATINUM" edition of "Groovyband Live! for MODX/Montage". Why is this feature not implemented in the STD and PRO versions?

For the same reason Yamaha does not implement the unique features of Genos in PSR keyboards.

And why only SFF2 styles? For users of newer Yamaha arranger keyboards, it goes without saying that SFF1 styles are also supported.

SFF1 styles have been abandoned by the creator more than 20 years ago (in favor of the new SFF2 format). If Yamaha does not believe in this format, why should we? We are not fond of retro computing either. Microsoft ended support for Windows 95 almost at the same time the SFF1 format exited from legal tender. Should we still make our software compatible with Windows 95 too?
Yamaha still supports SFF1 because the firmware they ship today is 99% unchanged since then, and probably will not change for another 20 years. Maybe their codebase is so messed and obscure that they do not dare to change anything in fear of breaking the whole castle. We aim to be a little bit more forward thinking and dynamic!

If you open the manual for the XG version on the website and then click on "Yamaha styles", it says "This feature is not yet implemented." Can you say if and when this feature will also be available in the XG version, i.e. for use with Yamaha arranger keyboards?

Possibly, eventually. As Yamaha, we announce new iterations of our products only when they already are in the stores.

[richkeys]

Additionally, the MODX/Montage version comes with 1800+ top quality (no fillers!!) sounds, specifically developed for arranger use. You can load any SFF2 style and it will be faithfully reproduced, sometimes even better than in the original HW arrangers....

Groovyband,

Interesting product but I am unclear on this since I don't have experience connecting my MODX+ to a computer. A "Performance" and a "Library" are the primary terms when talking about MODX/Montage expansion content, but you don't use these terms in your explanations here. How are these 1800+ top quality sounds and sff2 styles loaded into MODX? I assume everything is reliant on connection to the computer application and no Library file is created and manually loaded by USB?

Also, what is an HW arranger?

Rich

[groovyband.live]

Groovyband,

Interesting product but I am unclear on this since I don't have experience connecting my MODX+ to a computer. A "Performance" and a "Library" are the primary terms when talking about MODX/Montage expansion content, but you don't use these terms in your explanations here. How are these 1800+ top quality sounds and sff2 styles loaded into MODX? I assume everything is reliant on connection to the computer application and no Library file is created and manually loaded by USB?

Rich

Rich,

we talk with the MODX using standard midi messages (including sy***es, shown in MODX Data List) exchanged through a USB connection with the computer. We completely bypass Yamaha's firmware (too limiting and unflexible) and directly address the MODX's sound generator. The sound generator is driven by the so called "performance buffer": a piece of RAM where the data defining a sound (16 midi channels wide) is loaded. When you push a button on MODX front panel, the sound data is taken from internal flash ROM (preset/user sounds + libraries) and loaded into this buffer. The sound generator accesses this buffer and plays accordingly.
Alternatively you could just send a bunch (hundreds) of midi messages (mostly sy*** messages) and program the buffer through a computer. We use this route. Our 1800+ sound data (and styles) are stored in the computer SSD, when the moment comes we read those data from the hard drive and send it in real time to the performance buffer.
The MODX internal memory is NOT altered in any way. When you switch off our software, your MODX is exactly as it was before, with all your sounds, libraries, free locations and every other settings unchanged.

Our sounds are a big asset, and although based on MODX preset sounds, effects and waveforms, are a completely different beast. To see what is different, navigate to https://www.groovyband.live/modx/, scroll to "The sound" header and click on "read more" below it.

Also, what is an HW arranger?

A piece of hardware (keyboard, embedded computer, screen, buttons, case, possibly speakers) and an embedded software (firmware) that orchestrates the whole thing and implements the payload (= arranger features). Usually the only interesting part is the arranger software, but you are forced to buy the whole package, even if your current hardware is still perfectly fine and maybe you are only interested in new/better arranger software. Or maybe your hardware is not fine (poor screen, keyboard, low quality buttons), but you have no choice and you just buy the package as a whole or nothing.
Usually the whole package is sold at a premium price, that surpasses the cost of the components bought separately. This is interesting in its own. Most finished industrial products cost less than buying the single pieces and assemble them yourself (typical example: a car. If you buy all the pieces of a car as spare parts you end up paying 10 times as much, and you still have to assemble them yourself!!).
This premium price of HW arrangers is also confirmed by the cost of synths, which are usually cheaper and more capable as "sound producers", but obviously lack the realtime arranger part.

You have both a SX900 and a MODX+7. I am sure you have noticed that your MODX+7 is better at producing a sound than the SX900 (and globally more versatile also as controller, sound card, and has USB audio), and it also has a better/longer keyboard, endless encoders, sliders, buttons. And yet it is cheaper!!

[richkeys]

Groovyband,

HW Arranger = Hardware Arranger, got it, I just didn't know that

Well good for you for making this software. I actually thought this kind of thing was needed for the Montage/MODX user base. Though many synth players probably say they don't want arranger capability, I think we might be surprised how many might want it and use it. Yamaha has already provided it's MODX/Montage customers with the free 512 Performance Library from the old Motif XF keyboard and many of these literally are arranger style accompaniments in different genres complete with left hand chord recognition. I would have to check and see if they programmed in variations in the Scene buttons. These Performances are nice but of course they are not as good as what arrangers can do.

Regarding SX900 vs. MODX+ for producing sound, you are correct, MODX certainly has a ton more control and is certainly a good price and the USB audio interface is great for connecting iPad Pro apps. And yes, those cheap looking MODX keys actually feel better than the SX900 keys. There has been discussion on this forum in the past comparing MODX with SX/Genos sounds. The bottom line is they share much of the AWM sample library however it's clear to me and a few others here on this forum that Yamaha programs the nuances of the sound differently. SX900 voices are great but only in the right hand in my opinion, when the auto-accompaniment is on. With accompaniment off and I play something piano style I get very muddy strings, choirs, instruments etc. in the lower left registers mostly due to those instruments being out of their proper pitch range. The SX acoustic piano though is acceptable across the whole keyboard. MODX however, definitely sounds good across the whole keyboard in most of the instrument categories, with superior grand pianos that have more velocity strike levels than SX. More effects programming on MODX is required to get that really polished sound that arrangers have. But Yamaha has obviously done something different with MODX voice programming.

As for whether I would try GroovyBand, not for now. I have the best of both worlds in the hardware form. Currently I am not able to connect my desktop computer near the keyboards and would have to consider getting a Windows laptop as I am on Mac. But I like your concept.


Rich

[Patt22]

Hello p$manK42

I believe it is possible to try the GBL interface, without connection to the instrument, by downloading one or both free versions to analyze the interface behavior and compare the content of the versions.
I have the 2 versions on a laptop other than the one that has my XG Platinum license near the Genos, which also manages my digital mixing on a 24" screen, I send Gbl on a double 15.6" touch screen ( - 190€ ) placed on the score holder, with all functions easily accessible.
Try to find someone you know who has a Windows 10, with a touch screen would be a plus (Windows Tablet ), who accepts the test ... download, unzip the file and click on the Gbl icon (orange) on the desktop or in the unzipped file to launch it, then press "Let me Play" and you have 10 minutes to explore, which you can restart as often as you like ...

It would be good if GBL could tell us what physical buttons and faders can be assigned to Modx/Montage/Genos and others...

A 2nd function that would be useful (for example, a long press on the accomp / voice / effects tabs ... on the right-hand side) is to link the right-hand panes with the corresponding mix page, frozen or free to choose independently on the 3 tabs, for one-click recall.

[richkeys]

Patt22,

Thanks for the info. For me this is too much technical effort on a PC, plus learning a new interface, all to get some arranger-like Performances into MODX. It would be better and easier if more developers (there are one or two out there) would just sell arranger Library packs ready to import into the MODX by USB stick, quick and easy. But that probably won't happen, as synth user needs and arranger user needs seem quite different, as discussed many time here in this forum. But you never know, maybe something can happen in the future. But it's all icing on the cake for me since I have both keyboards anyway.

I hope we didn't get off track from the original post here, but it's related.

Rich


Rich

[overover]

@groovyband.live
Thank you for your detailed answers to my questions above!


Best regards,
Chris