Genos 2

[Paula]

 I love the new Genos  2 ...I possibly wont buy one my Genos is only 18 mo old  although  if some one gives me a decent price for my geno1 you just never know   I  love the way they angled the screen as well
I can not bash  the Genos 2  I want one
Paula D

[Danny1972]

I love the new Genos  2 ...I possibly wont buy one my Genos is only 18 mo old  although  if some one gives me a decent price for my geno1 you just never know   I  love the way they angled the screen as well
I can not bash  the Genos 2  I want one
Paula D

Yes that's the dilemma, mine is even less than that. I've seen some decent trade in prices being branded about and I've even made some enquiries myself. Who knows, if I hit the right one I may succumb.

[EileenL]

Yes Yamaha have produced another winner. The sound alone sells it.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Yes Yamaha have produced another winner. The sound alone sells it.

I suggest that they sell their Genos 1's and cut their losses as this new Genos blows the Genos 1 out of the water.
Just a midi to style maker is a wow and the Rev and sounds seal the deal.
I say if you can afford it "Have It"

I have got Eileen's philosophy "You cannot take it with you"!!!
Eileen said over year ago be patient and i listened.

All the Best
John 

[mikf]

I have got Eileen's philosophy "You cannot take it with you"!!!

Not the only criteria though, because no-one knows 'the day' and how long the money has to last! Outlasting your money is not fun!
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Do not worry i have got my sensible head on.

I put my silly head on after a few drinks!!

[Oxford1035]

Do not worry i have got my sensible head on.

I put my silly head on after a few drinks!!

The problem is when you have a few drinks and hit the buy button 🤣

[rattley]

Yes we are hooked on "instant gratification" !!!     -charley

[mikf]

I had a friend who told me that perfect financial planning would be if you spent your last $50 right before you pass away. I told him the only failsafe way is to just spend everything except the last $50 and spend that on a bottle of scotch and 3 bottles of sleeping tablets. Then you drink the Scotch and take all the tablets. 
Mike

[Oxford1035]

I had a friend who told me that perfect financial planning would be if you spent your last $50 right before you pass away. I told him the only failsafe way is to just spend everything except the last $50 and spend that on a bottle of scotch and 3 bottles of sleeping tablets. Then you drink the Scotch and take all the tablets. 
Mike

The bottle od Scotch as a final purchase sounds like a great idea, but only fly in the ointmnet would be an old joke

Doctor to patient "I have good news and bad news. The good news is you have 24 hours to live. The bad news is, l should have told you yesterday"

[RoyB]

So, this is my twopenn'orth - although it is very early days, after watching several of the online video demos, looking at the specs, and reading various opinions of others, I currently have somewhat mixed opinions on Genos2.

I thought that Yamaha's launch video was, surprisingly, very poor and lacklustre, and it even made Martin Harris look as though he was struggling to find anything exciting to say about it - oil drums and holiday music for goodness sake, what was that about? So it was left to the enthusiastic Yamaha guy on Bonner's demo video to save the day for Yamaha.

I think there are a couple of ways of assessing the Genos2. One is by comparing it to the Korg PA5X and the Ketron Event. Korg and Ketron have their fans, and both of these keyboards have capabilities, features and functions that the Genos2 doesn't have, but they also have their eccentricities and flaws. On balance, I would say the Genos2 will come out on top to many people as the better overall package because of its attractive specification, superior out-of-the-box sound quality, better and more intuitive usability, backwards compatibility, and widespread dealer network.

However, comparing it relative to Genos1, I think the jury is still out on just how much the Genos2 is a real advance on Genos1, and whether it is worth the considerable cost to upgrade from Genos to Genos2. It seems as though quite a lot of what is new in Genos2 could have been provided to Genos1 owners by way of firmware updates - but, of course, this is not Yamaha's way.

At the moment, I am also undecided as to just how much Dynamic Style Control, Ambient Drums, Steinberg's REVelation reverb, and fancy LEDs on knobs and sliders provide real additional benefits, or how much they are just sales gimmicks. And cutting right back on on-board user storage space seems rather mean. I also feel a little bemused at the moment that some current Genos owners have decided to go ahead and order the Genos2 even though Yamaha have incorporated none of the improvements that they were demanding beforehand.

For me, though, I think the major disappointments with Genos2 are that it still only has 3GB of expansion memory, and that it seems that Yamaha has not listened to the criticisms of those Genos owners who expect better quality and durability of the plastic and buttons used in the construction of such a premium product.

I still have my Tyros 5. I did look at (and tried) the original Genos, but it did not impress me enough to want to upgrade and, importantly, I did not think the Genos offered me enough that would help me improve on what I could do or get out of my keyboard. At the moment, albeit without trying out a Genos2, I'm still tending to think the same given the high cost of upgrading.

Since I bought my Tyros 5 in 2015, how I use my keyboard has changed. I used to be like Eileen and others,  spending most of my time at the keyboard just sitting down playing and improvising. Since then, though, this has changed, and now I'm more interested in experimenting and recording multi-track arrangements on the keyboard and finishing them off on a PC, and I'm spending less time just sitting down playing and improvising. Most of the new features on Genos2 (relating to 'dynamics', 'ambience', reverb, and additional voices) I can already achieve in my recordings by other means if I wanted to. So, at the moment, as long as my Tyros 5 keeps working, I can't see me changing to Genos2 (or any other arranger) in the foreseeable. If my Tyros 5 broke and failed, than I could be in the market for a new TOTL Arranger, and in that case Genos2 would definitely be my choice. However, given the very high cost and how I now use my keyboard, I would also look at alternative (and perhaps better) solutions of being able to do what I want to do for far less cost.

No doubt, irrespective of what any of us think, Yamaha will still sell plenty of Genos2's. But, given the very high prices of current TOTL arrangers, and that the technical developments in new models are incrementally rather modest, are TOTL arrangers in danger of becoming something of a niche product, or even nearing the end of the line?


Regards

Roy

[ton37]

Well, considerations are always very personal. Tnx. you shared yours. Sometimes it helps if someone points out something that makes you think about it? That's why it's good that this forum offers space for all kinds of opinions.
My journey of discovery with the Yamaha has translated into various models. You can see that in my profile. But time also provides us with advancing technology and insight. This also (at least if you are open to it) involves introspection: what do you actually want...!
The Genos2 meets my changing demands and needs. I no longer have to expand my huge collection of styles or voices with styles that I will never use (and don't want to create anymore). Also always 'having to' tweak compositions for the best sound via effects, no, no, I don't really have to anymore. In other words: ready-made presets (styles and voices) of fantastic quality, great.
That also means that the 3 GB of user memory will be more than sufficient for me. I come from the SX900 which I was very satisfied with. I had the Genos before that.
In short: the Genos2 will last me years to come thanks to the many good sounds and styles. A comfortable keybed and improved display with encoders and LED sliders complete it for me. Yamaha probably had that target group in mind? Oh well, I would have preferred 61 keys, but no insurmountable problem with the 76 keys: the advantages outweighed that. So you see, everyone has their preferences: fortunately, that keeps the competition alive and sharp to continue to offer all those different models.
So many people, so many wishes...

[BogdanH]

I quite agree with Roy's opinion.. especially about how quickly some Genos1 owners forgot complains and wishes that they had not that long ago. Nothing of that has been improved and there's nothing really new in Genos2 (except additional voices and LED's).
I don't say Genos2 is bad and I never said that for Genos1 either (well, they're the same). What baffles me is, that Genos2 is now considered as worthy upgrade from Genos1 (worth a loss of 2000+€). But hey, is not my money, so everything is fine.

All I can say is, compliments to Yamaha influencers.. as it seems, they did a great job by making old trick working again. What trick? How to push sales at increased price. The last time Yamaha did that, was at introducing "new" PSR-S975/775 (same good old S970/770 actually) and in about a year later SX900/700 came to market.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[ton37]

It's one side of the story, isn't it? I think it's a bit more complicated. Imagine if Yamaha had honored (very) many of the wishes that (some) users had: then the price would have been even higher than what people are now complaining about! With regard to technology: a kind of super keyboard would have been delivered. Then I imagine a scenario of the Technics SX-KN7000: there was nothing left to develop (and earn from): End of Life (EOL). As a third dimension: some ask for so many adjustments that it cannot be incorporated into 1 model: if that was done, can Yamaha still sell the other models?
Logically, the customer/musician thinks from his point of view. From the entrepreneur's point of view: he has a business to run and it must ensure its survival as much as possible.
In other words: the requirements/wishes of customers/musicians and the goals of the entrepreneur/producer are often (financially) at odds. One wants to pay as little as possible -$$ to get a lot in return... and the entrepreneur wants to supply as little as possible to get as much +$$ as possible... that's life in our capitalist democracies. But I'm going OT.

[EileenL]

I am really surprised that after six years Genos 2 is not more expensive. With the way prices have been rising on everything to find Genos 2 is only a couple of hundred more than Genos one when it first came out is very good. Also there are some good deals going around.

[RoyB]

Hi Eileen

Prices of many hi-tech products tend not to follow the general rise in inflation, and can remain stable for years, or even come down. It appears to me that Yamaha's flagship arranger product has tended to increase in price somewhat more than some other keyboard products.

For instance, I bought my Roland FA-08 workstation in 2016. Roland's replacement for this (the Fantom FA-08) today costs less than 20% more than I paid for my FA-08 in 2016.

The price of a new Korg PA5X-76 today is similar at some dealers to what the PA4X-76 cost when it was first introduced late in 2015 - and can be had for some £1000 (or more) less than the Genos2.

On the other hand, Yamaha's flagship arranger Genos2 today costs 50-66% more (depending on the dealer) than its flagship arranger Tyros5-76 cost me back in 2015. Back then, the Tyros5 was similar in price to the Korg PA4X.

Regards

Roy

[pjd]

It's one side of the story, isn't it? I think it's a bit more complicated. Imagine if Yamaha had honored (very) many of the wishes that (some) users had: then the price would have been even higher than what people are now complaining about!

As an ex-engineering manager, I'd love to know the size (and roles) of the Genos2 development team. It's probably smaller than most people imagine. Yamaha put about 50 or so people on the major Montage (gen 1) development, but I'll bet they had fewer people on Montage M, for example. Same may be true for Genos1 to Genos2.

Folks get impressed by the scope and breadth of Yamaha as a company. The number of human-folk devoted specifically to arranger development is a much smaller group relatively. A small team can accomplish only so much, especially if they care about hardware/software quality and schedule. ("Deliver or die by November 2023!")

Wish I had hard data (just like Yamaha's competitors...) -- pj