PSR SX 900 touch sensitivity / Dynamics... and other finds

[jerrykjt]

Just purchased a new SX900.

As I started playing, noticed the key action is nice but it has a flaw.
We cannot play Soft ! However soft you play the sound comes out loud.
Modifying the touch curve also didn't make much difference.
Seriously dissatisfying Yamaha !

The previous series did not have this issue(but we had to bang on the keys to get a nice tone out of it). But those series had better dynamics and control over the velocity.

The piano sounds on the SX900 are really pathetic and sounds really thin and weak.
Upright Pianos are a joke.
Even the Live Grand Piano sound in the Legacy category sounds different from the the S970/S975 series

I couldn't find a good electric piano sound also in the main category. However the Legacy section have the older ones which seems better.

There no Orchestral-Strings+Horns combination sounds (with the crash Cymbal on the left hand side) in Main Strings category. However the Legacy category has the old Orchestral Tutti and with a bit of layering, could get a decent sound. Not sure why there no these type of sounds in the main category.

Most of the presets are drenched in dense reverb as usual.

Also feel the highs are some what boosted overall and sounds screeching shrill out of the box. But then that can be corrected with the EQ.

About the styles, Yamaha decided to ditch the Ballad category button. Now its so super cluttered because the ballad styles are scattered across the Rock, R&B etc. Its pretty hard to find them after flipping through pages and pages. Yes there is a search function, But Still !

There are other 3rd party expansions like CMS sounds which makes awesome sounds for the SX series.
If they can do it why not Yamaha.

I just recorded as Audio an electric piano layer of 2 sounds(yes I bought the CMS Yamaha TX 816 E-Piano 1 which sounds awesome). Transferred this audio file to Logic Pro X and loaded it up. It sounded very bad. The Volume was too low and I had to EQ the mids and highs. Pretty bad !
But the Audio file when played on the SX900 sounded fine.

Im still exploring and yet to find out more......

We are paying a lot of money for these keyboards and this what we get. We are getting fooled.
Very disappointed Yamaha

[rodrigo.b]

Just purchased a new SX900.

As I started playing, noticed the key action is nice but it has a flaw.
We cannot play Soft ! However soft you play the sound comes out loud.
Modifying the touch curve also didn't make much difference.
Seriously dissatisfying Yamaha !

The previous series did not have this issue(but we had to bang on the keys to get a nice tone out of it). But those series had better dynamics and control over the velocity.

The piano sounds on the SX900 are really pathetic and sounds really thin and weak.
Upright Pianos are a joke.
Even the Live Grand Piano sound in the Legacy category sounds different from the the S970/S975 series

I couldn't find a good electric piano sound also in the main category. However the Legacy section have the older ones which seems better.

There no Orchestral-Strings+Horns combination sounds (with the crash Cymbal on the left hand side) in Main Strings category. However the Legacy category has the old Orchestral Tutti and with a bit of layering, could get a decent sound. Not sure why there no these type of sounds in the main category.

Most of the presets are drenched in dense reverb as usual.

Also feel the highs are some what boosted overall and sounds screeching shrill out of the box. But then that can be corrected with the EQ.

About the styles, Yamaha decided to ditch the Ballad category button. Now its so super cluttered because the ballad styles are scattered across the Rock, R&B etc. Its pretty hard to find them after flipping through pages and pages. Yes there is a search function, But Still !

There are other 3rd party expansions like CMS sounds which makes awesome sounds for the SX series.
If they can do it why not Yamaha.

I just recorded as Audio an electric piano layer of 2 sounds(yes I bought the CMS Yamaha TX 816 E-Piano 1 which sounds awesome). Transferred this audio file to Logic Pro X and loaded it up. It sounded very bad. The Volume was too low and I had to EQ the mids and highs. Pretty bad !
But the Audio file when played on the SX900 sounded fine.

Im still exploring and yet to find out more......

We are paying a lot of money for these keyboards and this what we get. We are getting fooled.
Very disappointed Yamaha

I think it is better to invest in vst instruments, you get better and new sounds, and not the old sweet live and SA1 voices that you get on a PSR S keyboard.

[jerrykjt]

Yes, I do have VST Instruments and they sound great.
Bought this for live gigs.....

[BogdanH]

Just purchased a new SX900.

Congrats!

...We cannot play Soft ! However soft you play the sound comes out loud...

Are you sure you have Initial Touch for Left and Right voices ticked? (Reference Manual, p.37).

...The piano sounds on the SX900 are really pathetic...

hmm.. agree.

About styles... these are on Yamaha keyboards since ever and after a while you'll get familiar with their new placement. Speaking for me: not worth to talk about.

...There are other 3rd party expansions like CMS sounds which makes awesome sounds for the SX series.
If they can do it why not Yamaha....

If you mean why aren't such voices built into keyboard, then the only answer I can imagine is, because they occupy quite a lot of precious memory. And even if that wouldn't be a problem, then almost all voices would need to be replaced, so they would be on the same quality level -but that costs time and money. It's easier/cheaper for Yamaha to use existing old voices and maybe just change some parameters.

Im still exploring and yet to find out more......

If I understand correctly, you had S970/975 before? If that's the case, then I think you shouldn't expect much difference sound-wise. The main advantage SX900/700 has, is touch display and 3rd right voice... and it looks much better -if that counts 
There are other more or less important differences which you might appreciate or not: joystick, better panel buttons (my opinion), more memory!, etc.

We are paying a lot of money for these keyboards and this what we get. We are getting fooled.
Very disappointed Yamaha

hmm... sorry to hear you're disappointed and I honestly hope that will change over the time.

I had S775 for less than a year before and when SX700 came on market I decided for it. Main reason was touch display -and I don't regret my decision even a bit.
Maybe your expectations were too high. Still, SX series is long enough on the market now and you could inform yourself before deciding.

Bogdan

[jerrykjt]

Congrats!
Are you sure you have Initial Touch for Left and Right voices ticked? (Reference Manual, p.37).
hmm.. agree.

About styles... these are on Yamaha keyboards since ever and after a while you'll get familiar with their new placement. Speaking for me: not worth to talk about.
If you mean why aren't such voices built into keyboard, then the only answer I can imagine is, because they occupy quite a lot of precious memory. And even if that wouldn't be a problem, then almost all voices would need to be replaced, so they would be on the same quality level -but that costs time and money. It's easier/cheaper for Yamaha to use existing old voices and maybe just change some parameters.
If I understand correctly, you had S970/975 before? If that's the case, then I think you shouldn't expect much difference sound-wise. The main advantage SX900/700 has, is touch display and 3rd right voice... and it looks much better -if that counts 
There are other more or less important differences which you might appreciate or not: joystick, better panel buttons (my opinion), more memory!, etc.
hmm... sorry to hear you're disappointed and I honestly hope that will change over the time.

I had S775 for less than a year before and when SX700 came on market I decided for it. Main reason was touch display -and I don't regret my decision even a bit.
Maybe your expectations were too high. Still, SX series is long enough on the market now and you could inform yourself before deciding.

Bogdan

Thanks Bogdan for your reply

Yes Initial Touch for Left and Right voices are ticked
When a key is pressed very slowly, as it travels down, at a point it just goes quickly and hits the sensor. Some kind of jump. This is causing it not to play at mf(mezzo-piano). The dynamics is lost. Not sure if Yamaha is aware about this.
No one talks about this. When I shared about this to a friend of mine, he noticed the same.

They could at least put a nice piano sound on it. That's all the ask is :-) since Yamaha is the master of acoustic pianos.

Have you tried the new S.Art organ sounds, the rotary on them are a joke.

Love everything else about the SX900-the touch screen, Joystick, 3rd voice, button layout etc. And it looks great too.

For now tweaking them OR loading 3rd party sounds is the only option. Wish there were more than 1GB space for the expansion memory !
For the Genos, a firmware update increased the expansion memory from 1.8 GB to 3.0 GB.
Maybe SJD can throw some light on any possibility for memory increase for the SX 900.


Have worked on these keyboards PSR 210, 510, 730, 740, 2100, 3000, 970, Motif ES, MOXF - Korg O1/w FD, N364, Trinity, Triton Studio, Krome, Kronos, PA 600, 900 - Kurzweil PC3

[DerekA]

jerrykit, did you actually try the keyboard out before you bought it?

If it's so bad, return it and get your money back.

[rodrigo.b]

jerrykit, did you actually try the keyboard out before you bought it?

If it's so bad, return it and get your money back.

that is not possible in any music store on my country 

[BogdanH]

...
Yes Initial Touch for Left and Right voices are ticked
When a key is pressed very slowly, as it travels down, at a point it just goes quickly and hits the sensor. Some kind of jump. This is causing it not to play at mf(mezzo-piano). The dynamics is lost. Not sure if Yamaha is aware about this.
No one talks about this...

I can see in your signature that you used many keyboards in past and so you're aware that every keybed is different -especially if there's big generation gap or if we compare different brands. Not to mention, that each of us hits keys differently... I say that, because I don't have the problem that you describe.

Maybe you should try to set keybed Touch Curve to Hard1 or Hard2.. in this case keys are less sensitive (if you hit them harder) -this setting is in the same menu where you tick Initial Touch.
If you're still not happy, then you can separately adapt touch sensitivity for particular voice. Choose Voice Edit in MENU 2 and try Touch Sensitivity settings there.
Anyway, I can play normally at default settings (Touch Curve=Normal) and so I think you need a little time to adapt to keybed.

...Wish there were more than 1GB space for the expansion memory !..

-hey, what can I say: SX700 only has 400BM 
No, I don't expect memory to be increased with firmware:
1. These keyboards are on the market for too long now and seems to sell good enough as they are.
2. Genos was special case (read: competition) and it also has more powerful electronics (CPU) to handle the change.

At the end, I still wish you a lot of fun 

Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

jerrykit, not sure which country you're posting from, but were you not able to try the keyboard before purchasing?

Anyway, not sure what you mean by inferior pianos; *all* of the PSRs970 sounds are on the sx700 and sx900 (obviously, the sx900 has more sounds, taken from the Tyros 5's non S.Art2 sounds)

The

The previous series did not have this issue(but we had to bang on the keys to get a nice tone out of it). But those series had better dynamics and control over the velocity.

The piano sounds on the SX900 are really pathetic and sounds really thin and weak.
Upright Pianos are a joke.
Even the Live Grand Piano sound in the Legacy category sounds different from the the S970/S975 series

I couldn't find a good electric piano sound also in the main category. However the Legacy section have the older ones which seems better.

There no Orchestral-Strings+Horns combination sounds (with the crash Cymbal on the left hand side) in Main Strings category. However the Legacy category has the old Orchestral Tutti and with a bit of layering, could get a decent sound. Not sure why there no these type of sounds in the main category.

Live Grand isn't the new one from the s970. That's Concert Grand in Legacy (which is identical to the s970/s975/sx700 default piano). Live Grand is actually the one from Tyros 1/PSR3000. So of course it sounds thinner.

The Tutti is the same as it's always been; going back to CVP209/210 (PSR9000) all the way to the Genos and CVP909/809. No difference (in 25 years!); I wish they would add a punchier orchestral Tutti like the CSM one.

Bogdan is right about the velocity curve; if you find it 'jumps' too suddenly from mezzo piano, switch to hard1 or hard 2

Mark

[richkeys]

More selection is indeed lacking on the SX900 for those all-in-one type Tutti sounds with strings, horns, left side cymbals. However the selection of orchestra/cinema styles, many available for free in the styles section of this website, more than makes up for this, at least for me. You'll find them buried in nested folders. In the end, the arranger is a styles-based instrument. If you plan to play Tutti layered sounds "piano" style without accompaniment, I suggest the MODX has more flexibility to set up orchestral keyboard zones. MODX sounds are also crafted to sound much better than SX in the lowest 2 octaves.

The SX900 piano is actually high quality. It plays well across the whole keyboard. I have not found any expansion pack that beats it. It's nowhere near a console digital piano, but it's not far off from the MODX CFX piano in my opinion. Try thickening it with some of the .VCE piano files also available for download on this website, also add more resonance etc.

[jerrykjt]

I can see in your signature that you used many keyboards in past and so you're aware that every keybed is different -especially if there's big generation gap or if we compare different brands. Not to mention, that each of us hits keys differently... I say that, because I don't have the problem that you describe.

Maybe you should try to set keybed Touch Curve to Hard1 or Hard2.. in this case keys are less sensitive (if you hit them harder) -this setting is in the same menu where you tick Initial Touch.
If you're still not happy, then you can separately adapt touch sensitivity for particular voice. Choose Voice Edit in MENU 2 and try Touch Sensitivity settings there.
Anyway, I can play normally at default settings (Touch Curve=Normal) and so I think you need a little time to adapt to keybed.
-hey, what can I say: SX700 only has 400BM 
No, I don't expect memory to be increased with firmware:
1. These keyboards are on the market for too long now and seems to sell good enough as they are.
2. Genos was special case (read: competition) and it also has more powerful electronics (CPU) to handle the change.

At the end, I still wish you a lot of fun 

Bogdan

Yes I tweaked the settings for touch offset and depth for each voice-through the Voice Edit. This works good for me. But we have to do this for each voice.
IF we could do this in the General setting it would have been better.

Thanks so much for your insights and guidance

[jerrykjt]

More selection is indeed lacking on the SX900 for those all-in-one type Tutti sounds with strings, horns, left side cymbals. However the selection of orchestra/cinema styles, many available for free in the styles section of this website, more than makes up for this, at least for me. You'll find them buried in nested folders. In the end, the arranger is a styles-based instrument. If you plan to play Tutti layered sounds "piano" style without accompaniment, I suggest the MODX has more flexibility to set up orchestral keyboard zones. MODX sounds are also crafted to sound much better than SX in the lowest 2 octaves.

The SX900 piano is actually high quality. It plays well across the whole keyboard. I have not found any expansion pack that beats it. It's nowhere near a console digital piano, but it's not far off from the MODX CFX piano in my opinion. Try thickening it with some of the .VCE piano files also available for download on this website, also add more resonance etc.

Very True about Horn+String combinations. But we can layer them and make them sound good. So its fine

No doubt about the quality of the piano sample in the SX900, but it sounds hollow. With some EQ correction, can make it sound better.

There are many third party expansions out there. The company CMS sounds have beautifully sampled pianos, epianos and more....
I bought the CMS-Sounddesign - CMS Yamaha TX 816 E-Piano 1 just to check them out. It sounds beautiful
But the only drawback with their sounds is that they are copy protected and we cannot mix and put them in a custom expansion pack with sounds from another pack. The only thing we can do is deselect the 4 or 5 sounds that come with a pack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVYwCUKWRsU

Do listen to the demos of few of them

CMS-Sounddesign - CMS Nord Studio Grand 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHF3o2cCH7A&list=TLGGQ3Z2r2H2G5wyNDA3MjAyMw&t=112s

CMS-Sounddesign - CMS Yamaha C7 Studio
https://youtu.be/fNIjfAaOQIk

CMS-Sounddesign - CMS Legendary Grandpiano 1
https://youtu.be/NVYwCUKWRsU

Check out this link for more  - https://www.cms-sounddesign.com/einzelsounds/piano/piano.html

Another Company, guess they have sampled sounds from the Genos(They also sound good !)
https://playsoundsusa.wixsite.com/playsounds-store/g-master-keys-complete

https://playsoundsusa.wixsite.com/playsounds-store/copia-de-g-master-keys-complete-1

And from the CP series
https://playsoundsusa.wixsite.com/playsounds-store/copia-de-g-super-x

A bit out of topic- This guy does amazing sounds for the MODX/Montage and many of them are free too - https://www.youtube.com/@AdrianCharras

[jerrykjt]

jerrykit, not sure which country you're posting from, but were you not able to try the keyboard before purchasing?

Anyway, not sure what you mean by inferior pianos; *all* of the PSRs970 sounds are on the sx700 and sx900 (obviously, the sx900 has more sounds, taken from the Tyros 5's non S.Art2 sounds)

The
Live Grand isn't the new one from the s970. That's Concert Grand in Legacy (which is identical to the s970/s975/sx700 default piano). Live Grand is actually the one from Tyros 1/PSR3000. So of course it sounds thinner.

The Tutti is the same as it's always been; going back to CVP209/210 (PSR9000) all the way to the Genos and CVP909/809. No difference (in 25 years!); I wish they would add a punchier orchestral Tutti like the CSM one.

Bogdan is right about the velocity curve; if you find it 'jumps' too suddenly from mezzo piano, switch to hard1 or hard 2

Mark

Hey Mark,

You're right about the Live Grand. But I think it sounds the same on all the models since S970 and above and on the CVP models. May be it sounds slightly different on the SX900 because of the new tone generator chip. I might be wrong here.

True about the Tutti voice. We need a punchier one 
We can make our own layers. But still 

Somehow adjusting the velocity curve isn't making much difference on the sensitivity. However the touch offset and depth in the voice edit page is making some impact. The only pain is that we need to adjust this for every voice.

There is something not right with the new FSB keyboard and the velocity sensitivity on the SX700/900. May be a firmware update could fix this.
However the key action is really very good!

[jerrykjt]

jerrykit, did you actually try the keyboard out before you bought it?

If it's so bad, return it and get your money back.

Actually I didnt get much time to spend on it. I played just 2 songs on an SX700 for a wedding.
Couldnt notice this issue then