Expansion Pack Loading into YEM Issue

Danny1972 · February 03, 2023, 08:08:37 AM

Hello, I hope I am finding you all well

I hope someone is able to help with this issue relating to an expansion pack that I purchased and that seems to have stopped working, in the sense that I can't load it in YEM anymore, this has caused concern because I need the sounds from this pack.

The pack in question is called Studio Singers, it's a pack that I bought about 4 years ago and it was quite expensive although worth every penny for what it contained.

My issue is that when I try to load it into YEM it asks for a User Authentication, wanting my User ID and password. I thought OK that should be easy enough, presuming it was my email and password from the Yamaha MusicSoft site. I tried this and it didn't work at all. I tried many different combination of passwords and nothing worked although my account does work on the Yamaha site. I even changed my password to make sure they are in sync, but nothing.

I then reached out to Yamaha support for assistance and explained the above, and their response was that all packs are now free for download, but I replied saying that the Studio Singers pack is nowhere to be found in the downloads as I had already checked there, but I have had no response from them since so I presume they won't actually do anything to help.

Has anybody had this problem before, and if so how did you get around it? I really do need this pack, I have may others I purchased but I don't care about those, but this one I really do.

Thank you for any help in advance,

Take Care,
Danny

Bill · February 03, 2023, 08:45:44 AM

Hi Danny

A couple of thoughts.

Are you still using the same keyboard as you had when you purchased the pack?

You say you can still log onto -https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/downloadable/customer/products/?p=5

If so have a look in your LIBRARY (on the L/H side of the screen when logged into MusicSoft. All your purchases should still show as available for download. You will need to select My Account first.

I have attached a photo of my screen to show you the library.

Bill

[attachment unavailable]

Danny1972 · February 03, 2023, 09:42:24 AM

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for your reply, yes I was looking at the wrong Yamaha web site!!! The link you gave me took me to right place, I still had to reset my password but once I got in I went into my library and bingo it was there!!!

I re-downloaded the zip file, but when extracting it, I can't see the usual cpf installation file, but one a .sme file!? It also came with a smekey file but no instructions on what to do with these. It was so long ago I can't remember how I got the file working. Any idea?

Even so I am so pleased Ive got even this far!

Bill · February 03, 2023, 09:47:07 AM

Hi Danny

I seem to have a faint recollection of someone mentioning SME some time ago on the forum, but I cannot remember much about it. Maybe try the search feature on the forum.

Bill

Danny1972 · February 03, 2023, 09:55:25 AM

Thank you Bill, I did a search and didn't find much help apart from a post that said that it's unsupported file format!?? What has Yamaha done and why?... if that's the case then it will software that I've bought but can't use anymore

Bill · February 03, 2023, 10:55:22 AM

Hi Danny

If no one else comes back with any suggestions, I would send Yamaha a question (what is the SME File format) from the MusicSoft Site. Nothing to loose.

Bill

Danny1972 · February 03, 2023, 11:01:09 AM

Thank you Bill, I had already done that as I already had a ticket open with them and I got an even worse response back, a none answer really, something about developers no longer existing for the expansion packs.

This is actually really not good enough on their part and I am seeing Yamaha as quite unreliable, putting them in the same category as Ketron now for software as they are just as awful.

DerekA · February 03, 2023, 11:28:01 AM

I don't think this is great news but ..

When Yamaha first made the expansion packs free, they did it at the same time as launching a new website. And they really, really, screwed it up. At first only a few packs were listed, and for those that were all you got was an SME file. And that file was completely useless.

After a (long) while the new site worked 'properly' and all the packs were there, with the right file formats.

I'm afraid you don't have much option other than to contact Yamaha and tell them that the wrong file is showing for this pack. I agree that it's not good enough for them just to fob you off.

Good luck

Danny1972 · February 03, 2023, 11:36:15 AM

Hi Derek,

Thank you for your reply, I agree with you entirely.

I know things change, but I think when it comes to items you pay for - and not cheap either - I think the support still should be in place especially if they have deliberately changed something. That pack I bought worked fine when I purchased it and I am very sure there was no SME rubbish involved, it was a straight up CPF file, in fact I still have the original original one but when trying to install it, I get the same error that it doesn't like my user.

For the free packs, fine, we didn't pay for them so if they are no longer supported then OK you have to accept that, but I don't agree with the stuff you actually own, you should be able to use them for life.

This is the same issue I have with Ketron, I purchased so many expansion pen drives only to find that I can never use them on any other keyboard but the one I installed on, even when if that keyboard died, then buying the same model doesn't matter, I would have to buy the packs again. This is one of the reasons why I have abandoned Ketron and won't even touch the Event with a barge poie.

But if Yamaha are not careful, they will be going the same with with me. I have spent a fortune with them, previously when the packs were not free I bought around 20 of them and thats not including the countless premium styles and premium song midi files, 100s of them, the cost is in the 1000s, and you are telling me I can't use a lot of them anymore??? This is unacceptable.

Amwilburn · February 03, 2023, 01:49:15 PM

Is it possible to roll back to an old version of YEM with the old version of the file?

And for the password error when trying to install.. I dunno, it might be worth a shot putting your computer offline (disconnect the ethernet cable for a sec) and see what happens when you enter in your password?

That really sucks, sorry. Also, your old CPF file, maybe a member can crack it so that you can use your own paid pack!

If you have the styles still installed on a keyboard somewhere, can you upload them, and we can see if there's an existing expansion pack that might map to the same sounds? They often reuse samples in different packs. Someone like Chris (overover) can probably find the voice list the studio singers pack, which could help identify which re-used samples (if any) exist across the remaining expansion packs

Mark

BogdanH · February 03, 2023, 03:04:11 PM

hello Danny,

You say, when you tried to import cpf pack into YEM, you're asked for UserID and Password? That's new to me. Cpf files are crypted (YEM decrypt them automatically during import), but not password protected.
I'm not sure if you're actually dealing with cpf file, but you can check that easily: if you're on Windows, open the file with Notepad. You'll see mostly rubbish, but first line must start with XPFH characters -if not, tell us what first characters are.

Btw. as far I known, nobody managed to "crack" cpf encription -would be great, though.

Bogdan

Amwilburn · February 03, 2023, 04:58:44 PM

Bogdan: I've had packs that required me to use my login and password. From Yamaha, yes it's a thing. I stopped using them because they made the version 2 of the same pack free, but when I used my old pack I had to keep putting in my password and email every time I launched YEM. From what I understand, something about scuttling the old yamahamusicsoft.com website meant that users outside of North America could no longer get their packs to work, as that site was gone. Or something like that.

But yeah, it's a real thing. I even remember a couple of customers buying premium packs that they could only install on 2 keyboards (no more), which would be a problem since one of the customers bought it for T5, if she'd upgraded to Genos and then the next Genos, she could've been out of luck (she still hasn't upgraded to Genos)

Mark

EileenL · February 03, 2023, 07:09:31 PM

Studio Singers was produced by a third party (Not Yamaha) so was never converted to use on the latest keyboards. Unfortunately there is no way to load it into YEM or Keyboard.

BogdanH · February 04, 2023, 04:09:42 AM

Hi Mark,
Thank you for explaining.. one learns something new every day. If I understand correctly, that means, not only pack was tied to particular keyboard (by instrument info file), it was also tied to particular owner (by email). I don't like such practices at all and I would never buy something under such conditions. It's like buying keyboard that only works as long you own it -I know it's exaggerated, but comes down to the same.

Bogdan

Gunnar Jonny · February 04, 2023, 04:50:48 AM

Quote from: EileenL on February 03, 2023, 07:09:31 PM
Studio Singers was produced by a third party (Not Yamaha) so was never converted to use on the latest keyboards. Unfortunately there is no way to load it into YEM or Keyboard.

Here is a screenshot of installed packs at my Genos early 2021. Studio Singers was no problem to install after it got an update.
Btw, I remember that I contacted Yamaha and Otonosekai (Phil Leader) and then also the Euro Organ Artist pack got updated.
Now those packs seems to be gone from the downloadsite ......

[attachment unavailable]

EileenL · February 04, 2023, 08:47:21 AM

It appears that it is only packs created by Yamaha that are listed and now free. All third party packs have now gone.

Danny1972 · February 04, 2023, 09:21:48 AM

Quote from: EileenL on February 03, 2023, 07:09:31 PM
Studio Singers was produced by a third party (Not Yamaha) so was never converted to use on the latest keyboards. Unfortunately there is no way to load it into YEM or Keyboard.

Thank you Eileen, I never thought of that because I purchased it from the Yamaha MusicSoft site along where all the others were. So I presume Yamaha were selling it the on makers behalf (whoever they were). In that case then I perhaps was a little harsh earlier blaming Yamaha but I didn't know it was 3rd party software, Yamaha could have told me this info in the case I raised but they didn't.

I won't give up just yet, there must be a way to use that .sme file, after all it comes with a smekey, they must have done that all for a reason so that it can be used again.

Danny1972 · February 04, 2023, 09:31:07 AM

Quote from: Amwilburn on February 03, 2023, 01:49:15 PM
Is it possible to roll back to an old version of YEM with the old version of the file?

And for the password error when trying to install.. I dunno, it might be worth a shot putting your computer offline (disconnect the ethernet cable for a sec) and see what happens when you enter in your password?

That really sucks, sorry. Also, your old CPF file, maybe a member can crack it so that you can use your own paid pack!

If you have the styles still installed on a keyboard somewhere, can you upload them, and we can see if there's an existing expansion pack that might map to the same sounds? They often reuse samples in different packs. Someone like Chris (overover) can probably find the voice list the studio singers pack, which could help identify which re-used samples (if any) exist across the remaining expansion packs

Mark

Hi Mark thank you for your reply. I think the user ID and password data get's written to the file after purchase. I certainly user to work before and after reading bits of information from many of you here and also what Yamaha said about developers no longer around, I think this pack stopped working when they made all packs free and the 3rd party ones didn't want to give them for free so they locked them down, I presume that's what's happened.

The pack didn't have any styles, in fact it may have had 1 demo style or midi, I can't remember which, but it was predominantly sounds, vocal sounds similar to what you now find in the SX900, but I bought this pack before the SX900 existed to use on my S975 which is what I bought it for, unfortunately, every time you have to load new packs you initialise the instrument (always thought that was very odd), and eventually the file stopped working. If I try and load it in the instrument now it says cannot load file, I guess because since then I have used many other packs and the free packs as well as installed YEM on another laptop which didn't ask for my user and profile details so maybe all that just caused the file to be unusable.

It would be fantastic if the file could be hacked, I still have the original file to load into the instrument but the S975 doesn't load it anymore, I have both the CPI and CPF versions of the file.

Danny1972 · February 04, 2023, 09:35:29 AM

Quote from: Gunnar Jonny on February 04, 2023, 04:50:48 AM
Studio Singers was no problem to install after it got an update.

Hello Gunnar, thank you for posting that, can you elaborate a bit more when you said it was no problem to install after it got an update? What update was that, of the Genos OS or the pack itsefl? When you loaded it up, did it as for your User ID? Perhaps you have one without the user profile details?

Danny1972 · February 04, 2023, 10:20:52 AM

Quote from: Bill on February 03, 2023, 09:47:07 AM
Hi Danny

I seem to have a faint recollection of someone mentioning SME some time ago on the forum, but I cannot remember much about it. Maybe try the search feature on the forum.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I think I found the thread you were talking about, what an interesting read!

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=55896.200

Gunnar Jonny · February 04, 2023, 12:46:08 PM

Quote from: Danny1972 on February 04, 2023, 09:35:29 AM
Hello Gunnar, thank you for posting that, can you elaborate a bit more when you said it was no problem to install after it got an update? What update was that, of the Genos OS or the pack itsefl? When you loaded it up, did it as for your User ID? Perhaps you have one without the user profile details?

It's the packs that was updated to load into YEM/Genos.
I first contacted Yamaha support that asked me to contact the producer of the packs (Otonosekai). Then I got a link to download, but don't remember what server that link pointed to, neither do I have it anymore.
The packs is installed by use of YEM, and YEM has the user id imported. If it's possible to install without it. I never tried.
Looks like Otonosekai.com website is disappeared or down as well.

Regarding the Euro Organ Artist Pack that also is made by Otonosekai, (Phil and his wife), I can see that it's now listed at Neil Blake's site. All filenames is exactly the same.
https://www.strawberrymusicltd.com/product/euro-organ-revue-genos-usb/

Danny1972 · February 04, 2023, 01:04:08 PM

Thank you Gunnar, that's quite interesting what you said there. I have also contacted Yamaha USA to raise a new ticket for my .SME issue but I have not had anything back yet.

In your screen shot that you attached I saw you had Studio Singers there, how did you load this into your keyboard, did you need a user and password for that?

Amwilburn · February 04, 2023, 01:49:44 PM

Quote from: Danny1972 on February 04, 2023, 09:31:07 AM

The pack didn't have any styles, in fact it may have had 1 demo style or midi, I can't remember which, but it was predominantly sounds, vocal sounds similar to what you now find in the SX900, but I bought this pack before the SX900 existed to use on my S975 which is what I bought it for, unfortunately, every time you have to load new packs you initialise the instrument (always thought that was very odd), and eventually the file stopped working. If I try and load it in the instrument now it says cannot load file, I guess because since then I have used many other packs and the free packs as well as installed YEM on another laptop which didn't ask for my user and profile details so maybe all that just caused the file to be unusable.

It would be fantastic if the file could be hacked, I still have the original file to load into the instrument but the S975 doesn't load it anymore, I have both the CPI and CPF versions of the file.

The file may have stopped working because when you have to input username and password, it does an online check, which is why I asked you to try it offline. But it likely is looking for a response from a server that no longer exists :1 Although the other thread you found, someone stated that the header was identical to the cpf one, but with bytes 8 through 59 missing, as per kla4
"Just found out that the SME files are NOT encrypted. In fact the 'free versions' (SME) are missing a (fix sized) block of data from address 0008 to 0060 compared to the (payed) .cpf files.
From address 0060 up the .cpf file is identical to the .sme file.
What we have to find out : What data needs to be inserted from address 0008 to 060"
So maybe someone could go into resedit/hex editor, and see if there's a similar block of data from either an s975 cpf file (locked by model, not serial#) or even ppf file and insert that into your .sme file and see if it's usable?

But, if there are no styles, the following isn't really a solution, but more of a bandaid: for a lot of the Studio Singgers sounds, there may be substitutes available.
Without being able to find any examples of what the sounds were online, I'm just guessing here:

For solo singers, download the free Greetings from Italy v2 (sometimes just called Italy v2), and you'll find a bunch of soprano singers in there.
Next, for the jazz scats, the only free one I'm aware if was *created* by pjd! Available here:
https://sandsoftwaresound.net/scat-voices-yem-alpha/
Paul has an amazingly detailed website on the inner workings of Yamaha synths and arrangers.

And of course, there are some free vocal and choir sounds available at CMS sound designs
https://www.cms-sounddesign.com/freeware/choir-freeware/

This doesn't fix your issue, but if enough of the studio singers sounds have equivalents from the listed above, you simply might not care anymore

Mark

Gunnar Jonny · February 04, 2023, 03:26:04 PM

Quote from: Danny1972 on February 04, 2023, 01:04:08 PM
In your screen shot that you attached I saw you had Studio Singers there, how did you load this into your keyboard, did you need a user and password for that?

Yes, the screenshot was to show that the pack installed OK at Genos.
I did import and transfer the Studio Singers Pack via YEM in same manner as all the other packs. YEM already have the user id loaded from first time install / use, so no aditional actions needed to add it to the keyboard.
Btw,it's a .cpf file.