Transpose parts individually.

[Dievas]

Hello.

How can I transpose 1-2-3 parts individually on the Genos?

I've just got the keyboard and I don't find the way to do this.

Thanks in advance

[overover]

Hi Dievas,

The easiest way to set the octave of the keyboard parts is in the "Voice Part Setup" display. Just press the [VOICE] button.

Please also see the attached picture and the complete description in the Genos Reference Manual, pages 33/34.

By the way, it is not possible to transpose the individual keyboard parts differently in semitone steps (only all keyboard parts together via "Transpose > Keyboard" or "Transpose > Master").


Best regards,
Chris

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[Lee Batchelor]

You can also press Direct Access + Upper Octave. A dialog box is displayed giving you the same options.

Perhaps Dievas wants to transpose each part by semitones not octaves?

[Dievas]

Yes. I want to transpose in semitones each part indiviadually to get a rich layered sound.

If this simple thing is not possible with a 4400 euro keyboard I think that I'll send it back to the store.

[overover]

Yes. I want to transpose in semitones each part indiviadually to get a rich layered sound.

If this simple thing is not possible with a 4400 euro keyboard I think that I'll send it back to the store.

Hi Dievas,

When we say "transpose" we always mean shifting the pitch by complete semitones or by octaves.

What you probably want is a slight detuning of several parts against each other (given in so called "Cents"). You can of course do this with the "Tuning" parameter in the "Voice Setting" display, accessed via "Menu > Voice Setting" or, as mentioned by Lee, via "Direct Access > Upper Octave" buttons.

I have attached a picture of the Voice Setting display. Please see also page 40 in the Genos Reference Manual.

By the way, if you don't have all the Genos manuals yet, you can download them here:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html


Best regards,
Chris

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[Dievas]

Thank you Chris but this is not.

Semitones +1 +2 +3 + 4....+12.

Like the mostly keyboards can do.

[overover]

Thank you Chris but this is not.

Semitones +1 +2 +3 + 4....+12.

Like the mostly keyboards can do.

Hi Dievas,

As I said, with Yamaha arranger models you can only transpose the entire keyboard at the same time in semitone steps or each keyboard part in octaves (12 semitones = 1 octave).

However, there is no way, similarly, to transpose each keyboard part separately by a specific number of semitones (e.g. R1: +/-0 semitones, R2: +7 semitones, so as to play an interval of a fifth with a single key be able). But apart from the fifth mentioned, I don't know where you could really use something like that.

Something like this is possible, e.g. by creating your own Custom voice in the Expansion Manager (YEM), which then automatically plays "polyphonic" per key.

Such results can also be achieved with the "Keyboard Harmony" function or the use of self-programmed User Scales.

Please also take a look at the following video "Create TERCE by Scale Tune" by our forum member Casper (ckobu). (You can enable English subtitles.)
>>> https://youtu.be/RfmEVpMV-78

Finally, maybe you should describe in more detail what exactly you want to use this feature for.


Best regards,
Chris

[Dievas]

Thanks for your explanation and for trying to help me.

I don't know if you know in deep the works of Ravel and other compossers from the begining of the XX century. They used extensively this technique. To my ears two strings one 0 pitch the other +3  it's an amazing combination.

I just discovered something interesting. The effect Pitch Change. It detunes the sound of a part in semitones but keeping the base pitch. It's not the same thing but it's more than nothing

[Ed B]

Hi
I wonder if the "ensemble voices" are the feature you are looking for to achieve the rich layered sound.  See page 54 of the reference manual. it provides the appropriate harmonization.
Regards
Ed B

[Dievas]

Hi Ed. Thank you for helping me.

This was a promissing tip but unfortunatelly it's not.

Just chekc it out but the tuning feature is the same as the normal one on no esemble mode.

It goes until 63. Not real semitones +1 +2 +3...+7...

I'll send the Genos back to the store. I can't accept this. My old Yamaha CP4 does this also the Roland RD88 I'm using for the band.

[DerekA]

You will get this kind of functionality on the MODX / Montage line of synths. It's never been available in the arranger lines. I don't think it's technically impossible - it's just not something Yamaha feels customers generally want in this market.

[Dievas]

Yes  I know. This is a common feature in the most of keyboards. But it seems like it's not the case in the Genos.

[overover]

Hi Dievas,

I think it's a pity that you want to send the Genos back "only" because you can't directly transpose the keyboard parts in semitone steps independently of each other. There are many ways to achieve "something like this" though, some of which have already been mentioned.

Since the Expansion Voice processing is outsourced to the Expansion Manager (YEM) program anyway, it shouldn't be a problem for an ambitious user to create suitable Custom Voices there (in the YEM). For example, you could create voices that sound 3 semitones higher, or voices that play the original note and a transposed note at the same time.

As mentioned, the User Scale function can also be used well in this context. Here you can even specify a separate transposition setting for each note (key), if desired.

What has not yet been mentioned: You could also control the SONG parts with the internal keyboard via an external MIDI cable connection (MIDI A Out > MIDI A In). You can use e.g. a small, self-created so-called Dummy MIDI file that is  automatically loaded when you call up the relevant Registration to make the SONG part settings. Here you could transpose any part as you like. (Genos has 32 internal MIDI parts, organized in 2 Ports with 16 channels each.)


Best regards,
Chris

[Dievas]

Yes Chris. And I can connect the Genos to my Daw and make that the computer sent tranpose messages to the Geno's, but this not the way I want to work.
I bought the Genos to work without computer.
I'll test the custom scales. I'm curious about that.

Thank you again.

[overover]

Yes Chris. And I can connect the Genos to my Daw and make that the computer sent tranpose messages to the Geno's, but this not the way I want to work.
I
I'll test the custom scales. I'm curious about that.

Thank you again.

Thanks for your quick feedback, Dievas!

Of course, you only need the computer to create the Custom Voices mentioned. Once these are installed on the Genos, everything works without a computer.


Best regards,
Chris

[Dievas]

Too complicated Chris. I don't want to use a computer to transpose a single voice. 4400 euro is a lot of money to have to use a pc to do this.


Anyway, thanks again for your help and thanks to the other huys who helped me too.

[Dievas]

As mentioned, the User Scale function can also be used well in this context. Here you can even specify a separate transposition setting for each note (key), if desired.

This is not correct.

You can "tune" each note up to -63/+63. You can't transpose each note in real semitones.

I've just checked it out.

[overover]

As mentioned, the User Scale function can also be used well in this context. Here you can even specify a separate transposition setting for each note (key), if desired.

This is not correct.

You can "tune" each note up to -63/+63. You can't transpose each note in real semitones.

I've just checked it out.

Thanks for pointing this out, Dievas!

I haven't tested it myself yet. Casper (ckobu) obviously uses transposed Custom Voices in his above-mentioned "Terca" project in addition to the User Scale function:
>>> https://youtu.be/RfmEVpMV-78


Best regards,
Chris

[DerekA]

What has not yet been mentioned: You could also control the SONG parts with the internal keyboard via an external MIDI cable connection (MIDI A Out > MIDI A In). You can use e.g. a small, self-created so-called Dummy MIDI file that is  automatically loaded when you call up the relevant Registration to make the SONG part settings. Here you could transpose any part as you like. (Genos has 32 internal MIDI parts, organized in 2 Ports with 16 channels each.)

This will work, and not be too inconvenient if you only need to do it occasionally. No computer needed. Better than sending back I would think.

[Dievas]

As I said, it doesn't seem to me that the customer would have to use computers or plug cables to transpose a part on a keyboard of this price.

I thought that the Genos OS was the most superior, but it's not. The PSR A5000 can transpose parts without cables or computers (live control joystick)

Thanks anyway.

[overover]

... The PSR A5000 can transpose parts without cables or computers (live control joystick) ...

Thanks for pointing this out, Dievas!

Yes, unlike the Genos, with the A5000 it's obviously possible to pitch a specific part by predetermined semitones using a Live Control knob. Strange that Yamaha has not yet integrated this into the Genos via firmware update ...

By the way, have you already checked whether the current firmware version (V2.13) is installed on your Genos? Even if you buy a Genos new, it does not necessarily have to have the latest firmware update on it.


Best regards,
Chris

[Dievas]

It's 2.12 but I'll don't upgrade it.

I'll send it probably back.

[Dievas]

Ok guys.

I have been working on this for a couple of hours trying with different instruments and it's possible to get a decent transposed sound by using the Pitch Change 2 effect combined with the tune knob.

It's still not perfect as a real trasnsposition because with some instruments the transposed sound is not clear, like distorsion or something strange, but it works more or less.