How is the sales price of the PSR SX900 determined?

[ton37]

It is pure guessing and speculation. I am certainly not an economist, but how far am I wrong? Just a brain tune, it's raining outside and I have sold my keyboard! 

   
• PAM/Yamaha Advice Price €2359,-
  Local Tax/Europe  (-/- BTW/Tax 21% = €  495,-) = €1861,-
  Dealer Commission/Warranty/Service (-/- 35% = <€650,-) =  €1210,-
  Import duties, transport, etc. (-/- 6% = € 72,-) = €1137,-
  Yamaha Profit Margin (60% = <-/- €739,-) = € 395,-
  Production Costs/Development/etc. <€395,-

NB. If the sales prizes decreases the profit for the Dealer/Yamaha decreases too...

[EileenL]

My dealer is selling them for £1967 but there is always space to negotiate

[ton37]

Exactly @EileenL, that is also the price that can be seen in NL (the lowest at the moment is € 2167,-  ( 1.942 BP)), and I like to negotiate 

[beykock]

Hi :

The SX900 enduser price is much higher than expected but I am sure this new arranger will be a commercial success for Yamaha.
 
Yamaha dealers are now advising their customers to sell their " old " keyboards privately. 

Babette

[DerekA]

Yamaha dealers are now advising their customers to sell their " old " keyboards privately. 

I think that used T5 and new SX900 will be in direct competition with one another in the showrooms.

I expect the trade-in value of T5 to drop quite a bit over the next few months. Currently in the UK you can expect to get about £1100 trade in for a T5.

[EileenL]

The SX900 is more advanced than Tyros 5 and now it has three right hand voices as well as other new features should sell very well and I would say the price is less than some of us expected for what you are getting.
  Tyros 5 is still a good keyboard but like everything else technology advances and we get more goodies to play with.

[beykock]

Maybe the SX900 is more advanced than the Genos ?

Babette

[EileenL]

No they would be silly to do that Genos still has a lot more to it than the SX900 which does not have Super articulated Two voices plus a lot more.
  You have to remember that this is a mid range keyboard and the price reflects this.

[vbdx66]

Hi Eileen,

But I thought the Tyros 5 had Super Articulation 2 so the SX900 is not more advanced than the Tyros for everything it seems. Also, will not the Tyros 5 still have a better keybed and a better sound system than the SX900?

I'd say it would make sense to compare them side by side.

Regards,

Vinciane

[beykock]

Hi :

All Yamaha keyboards are very reliable and popular keyboards. Old or new, high end or low end.
They are ALL great keyboards !🍀

When new Yamaha arrangers are launched we are always reading here the newest models are oh so much better than their predecessors.

We all know as soon as the Genos2 will be available,  again we will hear from some members of this forum, the Genos2 is so much better than the Genos.😀

Babette

[rgw]

Camberlain Music are selling the SX900 for ££1,654

Richard.

[ton37]

Hi @Rgw, including VAT it is 2057 BP 

[rgw]

Hi Ton,

There had to be a catch! Misleading adverising in my opinion,

Best wishes,
Richard.

[gogo]

our dealer synchronises their prices with Thomann. So it is SX900 for €2300 and sx700 for €1300. A few years ago I got the s700 for less than €1000, so there is a 30% price increase.

Hi :

All Yamaha keyboards are very reliable and popular keyboards. Old or new, high end or low end.
They are ALL great keyboards !🍀

When new Yamaha arrangers are launched we are always reading here the newest models are oh so much better than their predecessors.

We all know as soon as the Genos2 will be available,  again we will hear from some members of this forum, the Genos2 is so much better than the Genos.😀

Babette

Coming from s900 to s770 (skipped 2 generations) I can say the s770 is a better keyboard, mainly because I paid for it half of what I did for the s900. Now I can install extra sounds and other content, there are more SA voices, etc. Whether the extra content is of good quality is another question. There are much better drum voices on the s770 than s900. So yes, it is a (much) better keyboard.

If you are not a performer and do not play these keyboards to make money, you can safely skip 2 generations of these. Buying each generation makes less sense for the home player. Besides, they are updating these things so often that I lost the numbers. If my memory serves me well,  since I got the s900 in 2007 we've had s900, s910, s950, s970, s975, sx900 - 6 generations for 13 years, meaning they update the keyboards every other year on average.

[Danny1972]

Hi Eileen,

But I thought the Tyros 5 had Super Articulation 2 so the SX900 is not more advanced than the Tyros for everything it seems. Also, will not the Tyros 5 still have a better keybed and a better sound system than the SX900?

I'd say it would make sense to compare them side by side.

Regards,

Vinciane

Hi Vinciane,

I agree with you with this. As much as the SX900 will certainly have some new features, styles and sounds, I still don't think it would match up in quality to the last couple of the Tyros models as they were top end keyboards. In the Tyros range, I think a T4 or T5 would still outclass it in some area's. For example, I've compared my S975 to my Tyros 4 and you hear the difference in quality between the two even though the S975 has some new stuff.

[ikmusic]

As much as the SX900 will certainly have some new features, styles and sounds, I still don't think it would match up in quality to the last couple of the Tyros models as they were top end keyboards.

I agree with this statement.

[EileenL]

Like I always say you have to hear and play these keyboards yourself. We all have different idea's of sound styles and easily used functions.It is always nice to get a new keyboard that has new additions
to it such as Chord looper Style reset Playlist function Assignable effect knobs which are fun to use Larger internal speakers. Larger User memory and much lighter to carry around than a Tyros.
  I think this will become a very popular keyboard for home and gig use for those who prefer a 61 note keyboard.

[Danny1972]

Yes you are most certainly going to get some exclusive benefits from using the mid range models, and portability is certainly one of them. Lots of nice new features and then with the added bonus of it sounding very close to a top line model as well, you can't go wrong really. I certainly can't wait for it to arrive at my doorstep !

[pjd]

Hi Eileen,

But I thought the Tyros 5 had Super Articulation 2 so the SX900 is not more advanced than the Tyros for everything it seems. Also, will not the Tyros 5 still have a better keybed and a better sound system than the SX900?

I'd say it would make sense to compare them side by side.

Regards,

Vinciane

Hi Vinciane --

It's always so difficult to do a true head-to-head comparison since the technology/feature set does not advance "uniformly" from model to model -- there are always bursts of innovation or improvment in certain specific areas.

I think it's (more) important for a musician to carefully evaluate her or his needs and goals. Then choose on their personal basis. A used Tyros could be the right answer for someone, based first on need and based second on budget. Heck, an E series could even be the appropriate choice! 

Always love your comments -- pj

[tyros2009]

Like everything else, it's a supply and demand thing.
At present time, it is so hard to get a SX900 in US. Someone tries to sell one for 4200 US$, while the normal price is 2200$.

[mikf]

Hi @Rgw, including VAT it is 2057 BP 

Don't think so, I believe RGW had the correct price. Don't think it's actually legal for companies in UK  to advertise prices that don't include tax unless they clearly state that. The Chamberlain price I saw included tax at 1647.
There are always some advances model to model It's seldom a massive leap, but they add up over generations. I believe it's a myth to think the 'latest model' is primarily aimed at existing users of the last model who will upgrade. Some will, but most latest models are going to be bought by people new to the market, people changing brands, or people upgrading much older models or lower level models. The proportion of latest models bought by people who own the previous model will be relatively small in my opinion, and not Yamahas primary target.
Mike

[vadesriux]

At Thomann.de the price is 1690 €.

[Al Ram]

Ton37

This is an old post . . . but trying to answer your original post/question . . .

The price of any product or service is initially determined by the manufacturer, however, once in the market . . . the price of product or service is determined by supply and demand . . . the more a product is desired the higher the price will go up . . . . if the product does not have a lot of demand the price will go down . . . . .

Thanks

[ton37]

Well, that's one of my old posts.. I didn't know I ever asked it... but I can always use my age as an excuse... 
Nevertheless, you are right Al.. just look at the prices of graphics cards or car fuel (in Europe). After this pandemic, many companies (and individuals) want to get financial fat on their bones again and the price increases will therefore be significant. Sometimes it helps consumers when new models come on the market, but it doesn't look like that will happen for Yamaha enthusiasts any time soon  .  Even the prices of the Genos have remained unchanged (high) in recent years, including second-hand. A second-hand SX is almost impossible to get and the prices here remain at almost the same level. In the meantime, enjoy playing the keyboard with the model you have now...

[mikf]

Pricing is a complex subject, and supply and demand are only a single issue in a myriad of factors that affect pricing. Costs, margins, competitive position and market positioning are some of those factors. Would the demand for Rolls Royce cars suddenly go up hugely if the price dropped by 5%. Of course not because only a very small number of people can afford one in the first place and a 5% price change is probably not going to change that and in any case those people are probably not very price conscious. Can they drop by 20%, probably not because then the manufacturer could not afford to make them and would go out of business. It's what the marketing people refer to as low elasticity.
High end sunglasses are probably the perfect example of price being driven almost 100% by market positioning. The price has nothing to do with cost or demand, they are nearly all made by the same manufacturer in the same plant and at virtually the same cost. The price is deliberately set purely to provide varying degrees of exclusivity and brand awareness.
Then there is retailer margin flexing. I may not drive the overall demand for that Rolls Royce up by dropping my margin, but I might cause more to be bought from me than the guy at the other end of the city. But then I should also know that would be short lived, because ultimately he will match me and we will both just end up selling the same number at lower margins.
It a very complex subject and internet buying of some products has probably made it even more complex. And big pricing mistakes can be terminal!
Mike

[andyg]

Good thinking! Looking at your original figures in post #1, your 60% Yamaha profit has to be split between the manufacturer (Yamaha Japan) and the importer/distributor (whether that be a wholly-owned Yamaha subsidiary or a their party importer). From my own experience of the trade, albeit a few years ago now, I'd say that 60% is too high. Production costs, including R&D, would be higher. I know some of the actual figures, but I'm not going to tell you, obviously!

I can remember doing this with a small beginner's guitar many years ago that sold for around £20. Allowing for the same kind of margins, the production costs would have been impossibly low. With a little tweaking, I worked out the production cost to be around £5!