I'm looking for a beginners guide to transposing.

[YammyFan]

I'd like to know  if any members can tell me where I can find a chart showing  how many times I need to press the transpose button to get to the key I want to play in. Also , will I need to remove my USB stick which has all my styles on it, because it may complicate the transposing  process? Also, do I need to  change the split point, or can I use the area around Middle C? My Keyboard is a Yamaha PSR 970.

[panos]

Hi Yammyfan.
The transpose buttons(+-) effect the keyboard just while it is on and you don't use another registration (which can bring back the transopse position to normal or something else).

When you shut off your keyboard the transpose buttons will come to normal position which is 0 (zero)

You don't need to move the split point if you don't have to.
We move the split point when we need more notes to the left or right hand,either we use the transpose button either we don't.

To find out how many times we have to push the transpose button either "+" or "-" we need to count all the black and white keys between the original and the new position we need to play the song plus the new position.
If the song is in major or minor scale we don't care.
We don't count just the notes of the scale but all the notes between the two positions.

Examples:
Transposing from F to C:
between F and C by going up, there are the notes(keys):
F# G  G#  A  A# B and finally the note C.
So we have to push the "+" button 7 times.(7 semitones)
or
between F and C by going down, there are the notes(keys):
E D# D C# and finally the note C.
So we have to to push the "-" button 5 times.(5 semitones)
(Notice that 7+5=12 semitones)

Transposing from Ab to E:
between Ab and E by going up there are the notes(keys):
A  Bb B C Db D Eb and finally the note E.
So we have to push the "+" button 8 times.(8 semitones)
or
between Ab and E by going down there are the notes(keys):
G Gb F and finally the note E.
So we have to push the "-" button 4 times.(4 semitones)
(Notice that 8+4=12 semitones again)

Practically:
place your finger on the original key of the song and count with your other hand the keys to the new position you want to go to.

A chart below that helps               

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Fred Smith]

I'd like to know  if any members can tell me where I can find a chart showing  how many times I need to press the transpose button to get to the key I want to play in. Also , will I need to remove my USB stick which has all my styles on it, because it may complicate the transposing  process? Also, do I need to  change the split point, or can I use the area around Middle C? My Keyboard is a Yamaha PSR 970.

1. You do not have to remove your USB; it has no impact on transposing.
2. You don't need to change your split point.
3. To determine the transposition, just count the keys. To go from C to Eb is three keys (C#, D, Eb). So press the transpose+ button three times.

Cheers,
Fred

[YammyFan]

Thank you Panos  and Fred. What a wonderful resource this Forum is. I would have given up keyboards 5 years ago if I had not had help from members of the PSR Tutorial. And, so often, that help arrives overnight- whilst I sleep down here in Australia. I wake up with a nice feeling of anticipation, and am rarely disappointed.

[YammyFan]

Hello Panos. Thank you for sending that wonderful chart and the accompanying  explanation. I have printed up the chart and I have one more question.  As each tiny square has two figures in it,  I assume that I can please myself about  which of those two figures I can choose to set my keyboard to. Am I correct in my assumption?

[Fred Smith]

Hello Panos. Thank you for sending that wonderful chart and the accompanying  explanation. I have printed up the chart and I have one more question.  As each tiny square has two figures in it,  I assume that I can please myself about  which of those two figures I can choose to set my keyboard to. Am I correct in my assumption?

It depends on whether you want to transpose up or down. The top line goes up, the bottom down.

Cheers,
Fred

[YammyFan]

It depends on whether you want to transpose up or down. The top line goes up, the bottom down.

Cheers,
Fred

Thanks. Fred.  by" up"  does that mean up into a higher octave and does " Down" ' mean into a lower. octave?

[vlbrgt]

In attachment a transpose table that I created for my propre use.

Regards
Etienne


[attachment deleted by admin]

[mikf]

Up or down means you can transpose in two directions. F is 5 notes up from C, but it is also 7 notes down.
As a beginner you need to invest a little time on basics of music not just how to operate a keyboard. Nothing fancy, just real introductory stuff like what is a scale, note names, what is a key etc. Then all these things you are asking would be obvious. Bottom line - would you make a chart for the two times table, or just learn the two times table?
Mike

[mikf]

YammyFan
This may help your understanding.
The first thing to grasp is that although the notes are in a straight line on the keyboard, for transpose purposes think of them as a 12 notes circle. The 4th note counter clockwise (down) is the same note as the 8th note clockwise (up). When you transpose you are essentially moving the whole circle round. So if you transpose + 2 them everything moves 2 notes clockwise round the circle of notes. So now play the note F and it sounds two pitches up, like G, similarly A becomes B, C becomes D, Eb becomes F and so on. But if you were to go -10 ie move 10 pitches round the circle the opposite way, the end result would be exactly the same.
Mike
 

[vlbrgt]

Perhaps nice to have is also the scales of the different key signatures.
I use 2 tables :
one is sorted in order of notes
other is sorted in order of nr of # or b

Regards
Etienne

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rick D.]

Yammyfan,

Apple has a nice app for the Circle of 5ths. Perhaps if you could visualize it, you would understand how it all works.

Rick D.

[YammyFan]

It depends on whether you want to transpose up or down. The top line goes up, the bottom down.

Cheers,
Fred

I placed my guitar tuner  on top of the speaker on my PSR 970 and discovered  that yes  you do have the choice of using the + or - .  Either one will take you to where you want to go.

[Fred Smith]

I placed my guitar tuner  on top of the speaker on my PSR 970 and discovered  that yes  you do have the choice of using the + or - .  Either one will take you to where you want to go.

If you have someone trying to sing along, you will find it makes a big difference whether you go up or down.

Cheers,
Fred

[mikf]

Fred
It will not make a difference if it takes you to the same key. If the key of D is too high for the singer and I need to drop to Bb, it doesn't matter if I go -4 or +8. Result is the same.
Mike

[SciNote]

Well, wouldn't it get you to a different octave?  Yes, for example, if you start with a C and want to get to a G, you can go either up 7 semitones or down 5 semitones and get from C to G, but going up 7 semitones gets you a G that is an octave higher than going down 5 semitones.  That, of course, will make a difference as to how the song sounds when you play it on the keyboard.  But with styles, it may not make as much of a difference (depending on your keyboard and settings) because I've seen where at least parts of styles will play in the same octave regardless of what octave you are playing the left-hand auto-accompaniment in.

[Fred Smith]

Fred
It will not make a difference if it takes you to the same key. If the key of D is too high for the singer and I need to drop to Bb, it doesn't matter if I go -4 or +8. Result is the same.
Mike

The result is not the same, because you're in a different octave.

Cheers,
Fred

[mikf]

Fred - you are right of course, the accompaniment stays the same, but your leads would have moved up or down an octave. I normally don't use a split, and have 88 keys, so not a big deal for me. I would just move my hands to the appropriate  octave, and a singer wouldn't care as long as the key is right, but a definite decision for most arranger players using a split.
They can adjust the octave, but from a practical viewpoint I guess you always would move the smallest amount to get where you want to go, ie you would never actually go up 10 if you can go down 2 to get to the same key. Suppose it does become a bit of a choice when you move 5 or 6 though.
Mike