Who is the owner?

[Misu]

I saw some discussion about the Yamaha expenses and license and respect for the customers and....
As we know every wave has a distinct shape, like a fingerprint.
My example is, of course, from my country traditional pack (one of most expensive)
Colours of Romania: Sound Contrabas Bun; style Hora Lautari
Oldest sound Korg, more than 5 years ago, has name Contrabas Zenu in time someone has change the name to Contrabas Bun and appears with this name in all Korg sets.
Now appear on Yamaha coded pack, even with the same name, and I must to pay for this and to be agreed with the licensing terms.
This bass can be use on the style Hora Lautari, style made with 6 CV (Major, Minor, 7, Dim....)
This sty it is also here with one variation Major transformed in Major7 for Yamaha.
I can continue with other examples but for what?
And now the question:
If I take <Yamaha sounds> make a CPF and sale it, who is the owner?
Regards
Mihai

[EileenL]

As we all know voices produced by Yamaha for there on board sounds and Sample voices are owned by Yamaha and as such are copyrighted to them. Why would you want to sell them and risk being heavily sued. Create your own and then you can sell them because they are your work and not someone else's.

[Joe H]

... If I take <Yamaha sounds> make a CPF and sale it, who is the owner?
Regards
Mihai

You can't do that, it is illegal. You only have the right to USE the Voices, Yamaha own them ALWAYS.

Joe H

[Misu]

Thanks Eileen and Joe,

In fact I do not sale nothing from my work, I give for free, this is my choice, but it is not fair to find in these Yamaha packs sounds, already tested in time, made by people with passion for music, doesn't matter the brand, just with stamp Yamaha, and they give us like rented sounds.
My supposition is that they have in almost every country a qualified person to make a traditional pack, and when is ready they approve, put the his mark (copyrighted) on this and sale it.
For sure this person don't go to Yamaha studio with classical instruments make new samples and voices and when the new voices are ready start to create new style for that country.
If they made these new samples I'm completely agreed to do what they do, but, for my supposition, based to my experience, I consider this approach completely not fair, this to don't use heavy words.
A last question for you, your English is clear better than my, if I make a pack PPF, to be share for free, and inside I have few PPF locked voices take it from internet do you think there is a problem or not?
Many thanks
Mihai

[Joe H]

You can't share for free Yamaha samples. That's why Yamaha make .cpf copy protected files to stop people from sharing.

If Yamaha find out they may want to sue you.  As has already been explained.  Yamaha spend a lot of time and money to produce expansion packs. They have the right to get paid for their investment.

Joe H

[Misu]

Great news Joe,
I have 50 packs PPF file from Yamaha, I don't care about CPF, and I used few voices in my personal traditional pack which I want to share for free.
I use these voices not because are better but because, using these with MSB=49 instead of 63, I can have more than 128 voices / pack.
For this I ask you.
Thanks again.
Mihai.

[Joe H]

My understanding is you can't share ppf Voices either. Nothing in this world is free.  People spend a lot of time and expertise producing those packs. Do you go to work everyday for free?  Don't you expect to get paid for your work?  So do Yamaha.

Regards,
Joe H

[mikf]

My supposition is that they have in almost every country a qualified person to make a traditional pack, and when is ready they approve, put the his mark (copyrighted) on this and sale it.
Misu ...Even if if this the case, the person will have been paid and contracted by Yamaha to do this. Like all other companies Yamaha contracts will ensure that they own the rights to the results of any work performed under the contract. That is perfectly fair and normal.
Some companies do decide to give stuff away, or be more open. But my experience has been that they do so when they think it is in their overall interest, usually to help get market traction. The market leaders tend to do this less, simply because they don't have to!
Mike

[Misu]

Hi Joe and Mike,
You have right, more and more everything is with money, except maybe the air and my packs, can be legal but not fair or moral. I make a pack with free materials where it is free work of hundreds of people, I have tools to make it CPF and it is legal to sale all this people work and my work of course.
Fair is to create my own sounds and styles and after that to sale the pack, otherwise, in fact, I steal the work of those contributed to my pack, special when we spoke about materials which can't be protected KMP or SF2.
I can understand the process for a person but not for a company.
If they have persons to make traditional packs, they leave the legal and moral issues to these people.
In case of something .... We don't know, we have a contract, it is perfectly legal.
What do you think would happen if I made now a pack (in fact I have it) with all the necessary voices (PPF with lock) and selection of styles from Indian Packs take it from here, and I would go on E-bay to sell it as CPF.
Even for these voices I didn't push button <agreed with copyright> for sure in the next moment my account will be erased from E-bay. It is already checked by persons that I know.
I know legally it is not the same situation, they have more contracts and papers to cover him, but in fact it is the same situation, we try to sale other people work without his agreement.
I will use this thread to dismantle the myth of professional voices made from Yamaha packs because I love Yamaha keyboards but I hate what they think about the customers(we are not good only to give you money).
My first download will have 2 examples of this process and one voice bonus
I make it fast by chance. Pack PPF with 5 voices
1.   Acc. Bandon: PPF from Colors of Romania 3 elements: one main with accordions waves and 2 with noise push and release I soupouse.
2.   Hohner Gola Bandon voices KMP to SF2 to YEM from the times of T2. First I made the same sound except the noises (even I have it) but at the end I saved with more volume.
Of course it is not easy to obtain exact the same sound because they don't work with YEM for dummy like us, but sometimes I prefer my sound because it is a matter of taste.
3.   Contabas Bun: PPF from Colors of Romania
4.   CBassZenu – voice KMP to SF2 to YEM take it from my Korg set, when I made the transition I realize that I can find a better version but I fix the transition problem and I think have little bit more attack.
5.   Dallape – It is an accordion that I found on the last set of Korg that I made maintenance for free for another Romanian forum. Usual 2-3 days to fix all the issues with errors in Korg sets. The people with Yamaha have luck, no this kind of problems.
I will try to continue with more examples but really I don't see that something will be changed.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DqdHiFEnyZuNbLwwrU9inQBKBKpIo-nO/view?usp=sharing
So enjoy the music.
Mihai


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[DerekA]

There really is no doubt here.

If you redistribute *any* wave samples that you bought from Yamaha Musicsoft as part of your own expansion pack, whether you charge for it or not, you are breaching copyright.

[Misu]

Hi Derek,
I didn't break nothing, I'm not so clever, I just use free samples of Korg or Yamaha T4 from my country free market, which Yamaha company consider that if they sign some papers with some peoples, they are the owner.
First, that site with packs must to don't sale (in fact to don't rent) packs without certificate of provenience from studio where the voices was created, and after they can give me to sign copyright issue.
Imagine I will take a Picasso paint and I write may name, do you think is main?
Regards!
Mihai

[Misu]

Anyway is not fear, but I'm too old and too small for this war.
Please to an admin to erase my following threads:
1. Who is the owner?
2. My Personal Packs
3. UVN/UVD & PPF Romanian Custom Voices
I will clean my Google Drive.
Many thanks for everything.
Mihai

[EileenL]

Create your own samples hiring out studio's and employing professional players and instruments plus all the equipment needed to sample and you can then sell them to recoup the outlay you have had doing it as Yamaha does. Then have someone come along and want to pass these voices on for free taking your bread and butter away. Would you like it.

[mikf]

Of course a painting doesn't become yours just because you put your name on it. It becomes yours if you create and copyright it. Just like Yamaha have done with voices.
You have asked for opinions, and the opinion is basically unanimous that it would be illegal to distribute voices copyrighted by Yamaha.
If you disagree, as you seem to, and choose to carry on distributing copyrighted material you may risk legal action. Is legal action likely - depends on a number of issues, - do they find out, how much does it hurt their business, is it worth their effort.

[Joe H]

Anyway is not fear, but I'm too old and too small for this war.
Please to an admin to erase my following threads:
1. Who is the owner?
2. My Personal Packs
3. UVN/UVD & PPF Romanian Custom Voices
I will clean my Google Drive.
Many thanks for everything.
Mihai

I have an idea... write Yamaha to get Yamaha's permission for what you want to do.  I doubt they will agree to your request.

Joe H

[panos]

Hi Misu,
from what I am reading in your first post,
is it your problem that maybe the same person can make a sound or a pack and sell it to both Yamaha and Korg with a similar name?
Do you find this unfair or something?
E.g to pay for a similar sound or a style both Yamaha and Korg, if you own keyboards from both companies?
I would find it rather strange for a Japanese guy to create a pack for Romania.
It would be more easier and convenient for Yamaha and korg to buy the copyrights and distribute a pack from a Romanian guy.

So what a developer/producer of this kind of business should do?
Sell his pack to one company but give it as a gift to the other or something?

Or do you believe that a company steals someone's else's project and sell it as it's own project  and the developer never finds out about this so to claim his legal rights if any?

These companies avoid even to use popular songs in advertisement videos of their products so they will not have to pay for copyrights.

[DerekA]

Hi Misu

You've taken a bit of a bashing here 

I think you can be fairly certain that if the likes of Yamaha or Korg are selling waves, then they've gone through the proper procedures to establish the right to sell them, including buying any copyrights that they needed.

I wouldn't be so certain about all sellers though ...