Genos AI Fingering Mode Explained

[RF]

The real advantage if AI fingering is, that you can

* play regular chords with three or four fingers (no matter of inversion)
* and play bass inversion chords with two fingers.

This combination is unique and real great.

Uli

Great is it, but not unique, because Korg has a similar mode called "Expert". But Korg doesn't speak about this mode much.
At least it seems, that Korg and Yamaha are the only brands, offering this intelligent mode.
With Roland or Ketron you had to set "lowest note is bass" and always to care, that the wanted bass note is the lowest.

[KeyboardByBiggs]

And AI even gets much cooler. I found the following german AI description:
https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf

I've seen many of Heidrun's videos on YouTube, and she often does them both in German and English. I wonder if she has this PDF in English?

[emmaco]

In Fingered on Bass it's impossible to play a Bb/C*. You can only play this chord with AI Fingered!

In fact you can, it's the same thing as AI mode (with c-c#-d-f-Bb).

Voodoo, thanks for the link. They talk about Crash Chord...
You can use these 3 notes to stop arrangement (except drums) and if you add any bass note, the bass also continues to play...

this keyboard amazes me day by day... 

[emmaco]

I've seen many of Heidrun's videos on YouTube, and she often does them both in German and English. I wonder if she has this PDF in English?

You can copy text and paste it in https://translate.google.com/m/translate?hl=fr.

[maartenb]

In fact you can, it's the same thing as AI mode (with c-c#-d-f-Bb).

I stand corrected. This works in both Fingered and Fingered on Bass. I didn't know that. Cool. Thanks.


Maarten

[KeyboardByBiggs]

You can copy text and paste it in https://translate.google.com/m/translate?hl=fr.

Thank you, I've already done that, but I'd love to have the whole thing with the illustrations where they belong.

[psr4ever]

You have mail....     

[KeyboardByBiggs]

You have mail....     

[andyg]

You can get Bb/C by playing C D Bb, the display will show Bb*/C, but the sound will be as close as 99% of us want to get it!

[Dromeus]

You can get Bb/C by playing C D Bb, the display will show Bb*/C, but the sound will be as close as 99% of us want to get it!

Andy, without any doubt I agree 99.9% with your professional advices and opinions. But this is the one I wholeheartedly disagree. To my ears the difference in sound is just too big. When a band has to play Bb/C, the bass player will deliver the note C while rhythm guitars and other instruments providing the harmonic foundation should play a Bb chord only without an additional 9th which is the C. And that is exactly what AI Fingered does when you use the c-c#-d-f-b fingering.

Let's use the SynthPop style as an example. If you solo the style parts and you play alternating a Bb and a Bb/C chord (with c-c#-d-f-b fingering) you may observe:

- the BASS part play a Bb resp a C note which of course is expected
- the CHD1 part will play a Bb chord in both cases, for this part there is no difference in sound between a Bb and a Bb/C chord.
- the CHD2 part is a piano sound and will play what a piano player should do, a Bb chord in the first case and for the Bb/C he plays Bb with the right hand and a C bass note with his left hand
- the PAD part as well as the PHR1 (a guitar) act the same way as CHD1, no difference in sound between a Bb and a Bb/C chord.

AI Fingered is very clever to provide all the parts a real band would play if you use the fingering the designers choosed for this slash chord.

Of course, you're totally aware of this. Just pointing this out to our fellow keyboard players, as I'm not convinced that 99% will really be satisfied with the Bb-C-D fingering. So folks, just try yourself and let your ears decide  .

[andyg]

Technically you're correct, but having taught this particular trick since 'whenever' , everyone who's used it has been happy with the result. None are pros, but some have gone all the way to diploma standard exams using all sorts of AI chords including, for example, Eb/F in 'Memory'.

As you say, try both and see if you can hear the difference enough to warrant the more difficult fingering version!

[cando614]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, I've been away from PSR Tutorial for a while.  One thing I never understood or liked about AI Fingered mode...

When you play only one note, the triggered chord is [1+8].  Why!?    I mean, how often does a unison turn up in popular music scores?  It just doesn't seem very useful compared to the alternative, namely that one key would sound a full major triad.  If the player wants a thin [1+8], then he or she could specify it by playing [1+8].

Yes, I'm aware that a major chord can be specified by playing [1+3], or [1+3+5].  But major chords are quite common.  And sometimes, when the chord changes on every beat, being able to trigger majors with a single note makes things smoother and more accurate.  Some other brands work this way, and have Bass Inversion as a separate function.

So if anyone from Yamaha reads this board: making this an optional setting would benefit some, and leave no one worse off.  This feature is so valuable to me, if Yamaha made this an option in the firmware of the Genos (or whatever succeeds the s975), then I would trade my Tyros to get it!!  Thanks for listening!

[gmizrahi]

Yes I agree. This is a great suggestion

[gmizrahi]

Too bad it's not in English.

And AI even gets much cooler. I found the following german AI description:

  https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf

It has one section about root-less chords for jazz piano playing:

* e-a-d gives C 6/9
* eb-a-d gives F 7/13
* b-f-a gives G 7/9
* f-b-e gives G 7/13

And in all cases, the bass note is recognised correcty although it is not played. And depending on style, the fifth is also played by bass player.

Uli

[mikf]

Interesting, but while in a jazz trio with a bass player rootless chords are common for the piano player, since you are driving the accompaniment on an arranger wouldn't you normally want the bass?
On the doubled up bass, I think that's a useful if not common alternative, so don't see why you would need yet another way of simplifying major chords by removing it.
Mike

[guitpic1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoJs8Uu4mqo&feature=youtu.be

[EileenL]

Just one thing wrong with this video. AI fingering dose not read as All fingering. It means Artificial Intelligent fingering.   On Bass means that the lowest note played in any chord will use that as the base note also. Not very good info really.

   Eileen 

[panos]

I thought in music the interesting part was a nice recognizable, kind of unique melody.
In Jazz improvisations the important part is the exact chord fingering or something?
Too many details.
A "style" is not just a piano or a bass player after all.

[gmizrahi]

Can anyone suggest the right kind of fingering for chord progression using AI fingered?

Thanks

[whataguy]

If you scroll up and read mikf's first post you'll find that he really nails it with his first sentence about the 'shortcut' chords are harder than learning how to play the chord the right way. The Yamaha instrument is very very smart in that I can remember back in the 70's I had a Yamaha D-80 roll top spinet and it would play the corresponding bass pedals of a chord (1st and 5th tone) regardless of inversion of the left hand chord being played. Plus, if you're playing from real music how many beats are you in any chord, an 1/8 note or a whole note at most? Even if you're in a tied whole note for more than one measure you're filling that time with passing chords and improv that again limits the amount of time that whatever you are playing is only a 1/8 or l/4 beat. I happened to check the amount of time it took to read all the postings on this subject then sat down and played three full songs. Stop cheating yourselves out of entertaining time playing. One of the things my grand daddy never said was 'some folks will complain about being hung with a new rope'. Again, re-read Mike's first post, it says it all. Don in MI

[mikf]

In this context of advanced chord sounds, I believe from what I hear that one of the downsides of the arranger is that it over encourages players to keep their playing to a strict lh chord, rh single note melody line form. There are several reasons for this - a lot of people coming to the arranger are learning or re-learning  to play the keyboard and this is a simpler method,  - many of the lead instruments are by design single note instruments, and  - many players religiously follow lead sheets which are laid out this way.
But if any of you have played sheet music, you will know it is hardly ever laid out this way and the full  harmony (chord) notes are usually spread across both hands and different octaves. For example if I want to play the chord C+ Against a melody note of E , then adding the G# note in the rh will produce the correct harmony sound  - and maybe more color - than adding it to the lh chord. It may not even need to be simultaneously, just somewhere in the context especially with a sustain pedal. So it usually sounds better and it doesn't matter that it is not reproduced by the lh driven style, because you are still adding the sound.
Of course it is not always appropriate to do this, but usually works for multi note instruments like piano, guitar etc. And it's a lot easier than twisting your lh into ridiculous chord positions. And it's not just for advanced chords, adding color by adding notes and passing notes to the rh line is something everyone should try to learn.
Mike