Cubase, Genos Editing

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

As some of you know when editing In Cubase, like doing note lengths mistakes and a lot more things the playback does not always sound as you want.
For instance if you are ten bars In and see a mistake or an edit, you adjust to your liking .If you start again the voices may change, things may go louder on some tracks and gets jumbled.
You can work around this and going back to the start seems to correct everything as all the sys ex and program changes are all there.
This happens if you played the song In one hit with registration changes In the Genos sequencer.
This means all tracks are separate except the top line or track 1. In the top line you play a Guitar and then registration change to Orchestra etc So these are top line program changes.
Transport that Into Cubase.
I am wondering If there is a property In Cubase In preferences  that I am missing. When I rang Yamaha It was about a different subject, but I did mention what I was doing and the tech guy said something about chasing notes. I am not sure now but It was something like that.
if you record Genos track  separately In Cubase that Is ok, the same as vst. So you could just Import the Genos style track and record other tracks In there.
But I like to play the whole song Into the Genos sequencer and then export. The thing is when you manage a workaround and put back Into the Genos all Is as It should be.
If anyone knows what I mean or have the same experience I would appreciate some feedback on this.
Everything else that i have done is all sorted like recording the Genos track by track In Cubase. Get the routing right and you are away.
Vst goes like a dream.
Recording a whole Genos song In Cubase is good as well. This I know also Is done on the Genos, but the Cubase way you can add VST Instruments.

I would like to stop and start In Cubase editing with Genos tracks without all the glitches.
So many ways of doing things  and Cubase has a bung load to explore like the chordpads, automation etc.

Ok that is it for today's waffling!!


All the best
John

[Lee Batchelor]

John, your post reinforces the idea that a lot of Genos users still want a decent DAW in which to record their Genos. Such an idea portrays the Genos as more of a Synth than and Arranger. Yamaha still can't that through their thick skulls. Actually, they do know it but refuse to design a decent DAW or at least a patch program that will work. Do they think it would reduce the sales of their Montage? I wouldn't think so because a studio recording musician is more likely to use a Synth for his or her work, not an Arranger.

Personally, I still think the easiest way to record songs is to do them on the Genos MIDI sequencer, and then import them to Cubase for editing. With that method, I have never had to go all the way back to Bar 1 so that program changes are re-initialized. Sounds like you're making registration changes part way through a song. That has serious implications when the tracks are imported to Cubase. Wouldn't it be easier to do two separate recording projects on the Genos (Reg 1 and then Reg 2), and then import the separate MIDI tracks to the one project in Cubase? Hopefully, I'm understanding what you're trying to accomplish.

Gone are the days where companies listen to the really important things users want. Sure, Yamaha monitors sites like these for future ideas but only when there are huge profits involved. Make no mistake about it, NO company is out there to "build cars, keyboards, widgets, boats, furniture, etc..." they are out there to make MONEY!

[jwyvern]

" I am wondering If there is a property In Cubase In preferences  that I am missing. When I rang Yamaha It was about a different subject, but I did mention what I was doing and the tech guy said something about chasing notes. I am not sure now but It was something like that"

That sounds like the preference option  I mentioned some time ago. So every time you restart, having made a change part way through, the DAW will chase back first to re establish the desired instrument settings before playing the next part of the song. Sorry I can't reinstall Cubase to tell you where the preference is (licence problem after Windows update) .
JohnW

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi John
I will go back over the past post and try to find what you said. It was something then to do with chasing notes.
I think the time you came up with that was when I was having troubles after changing my set up around. I was not a happy bunny a while back.
All things are working again as tommy 73 said to put speakers on the Focusrite 6i6.
I did that and had a right ear blast and went back to my previous set up. Recording troubles again.
I rang Focusrite and they had remote accsess to my computer and they put me back to the Focusrite for monitoring.
This time I had to use the right outputs  1 and 2 Instead of 3 and 4 as  the latter must be higher gain.
I now swap over the Genos main outputs to another set of leads going Through a hum destroyer to my DXR 8's for practising and general listening.
Also now I have balanced leads everywhere and a perfect set up this time. I have written everything down in a big notebook now so It won't happen ever again.
It Is just as Lee said. Record all on the Genos and export and to get over the problem is to record the leads on separate tracks.
It would be nice to do It all In one though.
It does seem bad that Yamaha has given us a keyboard worth £4,500 and a cheaper Montage gets all the attention.


All the Best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Lee.
Yes I do registration changes when playing a song Into the genos sequencer and that as you said Is the problem.
Cubase does not like that. You have to keep going back to the beginning to reset and play again properly.
If I can find this chasing notes thing In Cubase, I will give that a try otherwise play a song straight into the Genos sequencer , separate the tracks to different tracks and change the sounds to your
to the ones your registration had.
We are getting there Lee , but It can be a slog.


All the best
John

[tyrosaurus]

On my lowly version of Cubase (LE8), the 'Chase' settings are in 'File' > 'Preferences' > 'MIDI'.

If you open the PDF version of your Cubase 'Operation Manual', you can use the 'Find' function of the PDF viewer to locate all references to 'chase'.

Although I have Cubase loaded on my PC, I don't actually use it, so I can't give you any user tips on what 'chase' settings to use, although the information in my manual seems clear enough!


Regards

Ian 

[Roland]

Hello John,

You will find the chase event feature in the manual here: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artist/v9/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/preferences/preferences_midi_r.html

Hope that helps. Cheers, Roland

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Ian and Roland

I found the chase events under the Mid section and thanks for the pointer as I did not know what chase events were.
Now I know .
I enabled the checkbox and unchecked It and It did not make any difference to the song I was doing.
So recording with registration changes all Into the Genos sequencer at once In a one play situation does not work When imported into cubase properly.

If I start and stop just once  in the song it gets messed up and somehow the Gm drums double in volume on it's track which I find odd.

Once back to the beginning and start, all is ok again.
So maybe It would be best to put an entire song Into Cubase and cut the different track sections from registration changes and slide them to new tracks and name them from the Genos patch list.
Now each track would have a different sound and maybe all would even up.
I am still experimenting with Cubase as I am a newbie with It.
Another thing to get my head around at first was hearing midi when your speakers are outputing from a  sound box like the focusrite 6i6.
In Cubase i have to have a separate blank audio track In order to hear the midi from the Genos and record it
That is used for stereo In and out. it's all fun ain't it!!
It is like trying to get out of a traffic jam sometimes. Have to hop on a send and catch a number 9 bus to the output station!!


All the Best
john

[jwyvern]

Quoting from Roland's link,
"Chase Events
Event types for which an option is activated are chased when you locate to a new position and start playback. This makes your MIDI instruments sound as they should when you locate to a new position and start playback."

So it looks as if you have to activate the types of events that are chased as well as turning something on?

JohnW

[Bill Grosse]

John,

When you make any change in the Preferences section, you MUST Save the changes or they will be discarded when you exit Preferences.

I suspect you did not save the changes is why you did not observe any difference in playback for chase events.

BillG

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bill

So to recap .
I played the whole song into Genos sequencer with registration changes., so on the first track which are lead sounds there are program changes due to registration changes
Every other track is separate when Imported Into Cubase

Well, my experience is that when i stop to edit a note or mistake in a song and start where I stopped the lead sounds change and the GM drum track goes really heavy sounding and the rest is background.
I looked at the Chase events and that was already checked .
Nothing changes. I even tried checking the sys ex and that made the song go weird like a piano track with basic midi  if you know what I mean.
I quickly went back and unchecked that..I think that Cubase cannot handle the registration changes when making a song on the Genos In quick record.

I think that there has to be separate tracks for everything and then It would work.
I would just like sometimes to record quickly which is good practice for playing without shortcuts.
If I were to get serious which sometime I will, I will build up a multi-track. I am still new to Cubase.


all the best
John

[Bill Grosse]

John,

Absolutely you must use a separate track for everything in Cubase - that is the way Cubase is designed to work.
Chase events is designed to take into account every event including sy*** from the beginning up to where you start the playback. I have no idea why your program is not working in that manner as I never experienced your troubles with Cubase.

BillG

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bill

It is because I played the song straight off into the Genos sequencer with registration changes, so my top line in Cubase would have a few program changes rather than separate tracks.
I now have that song In Cubase and i am recording each track to wave.
Once a wave file I can slice the separate sections up and slide them in line down to another track for mixing. All tracks would then be separate.
The main thing for me Is dealing with the bass and I am learning how to low shelf and hi shelf and general EQing as well. All a long learn curve at 67.
This is the only way i can see around the song that I did without doing It all over.
So as I see it It is best to make your style from start to finish with different changes and export that to Cubase.
Now you can record all tracks separately and include VST.
Well Bill, this Is what i am finding, whether there is a better way, I would like to know.


all the best
john


All the best
John

[Bill Grosse]

John,

I want to point to a very important item in Cubase you may find the answer to your problems here.
It is called "Retrospective Record".
I can not overstate the importance of this item for folks who want to record MIDI from their Yamaha Keyboards.
This item allows you to record to your MIDI tracks while Cubase is in Stopped Mode.
It is possible to record your song setup actions before you start playing and while Cubase is not actively recording. And, you can record sy*** events as well.

It is not mentioned any where in the Yamaha documentation, but virtually every button you touch on the keyboard has a corresponding MIDI code for that button push and that code is transmitted instantly out the MIDI port as you touch each button. This includes voices, registrations, styles, volume.
Now those items that were already presently selected before you started the project, will not be transmitted unless you first select a different setting and then reset the wanted setting. Yes, both changes will be transmitted, but only the last one will be effective.

I sincerely recommend everyone who wishes to use Cubase with their Yamaha keyboard read, experiment and clearly understand how this feature works, because you will find your enjoyment of recording MIDI to Cubase increased significantly.

One last fact - Cubase and nearly every program like it are geared to "audio recording primarily" and have not changed much about how MIDI recording is done for a large number of years.

I hope you find this helpful and wish you great success in your future Cubase/Genos recording.

Bill G

[Bill Grosse]

John,

I don't regularly visit this forum, so please use my e-mail address if you want more explanation faster.

Bill G

[Roland]

The Cubase documentation actually does have the "Retrospective Record" feature documented - you can find it here :
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artist/v9/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/recording/recording_enabling_retrospective_record_t.html

I think that the Cubase documentation is quite detailed. What I feel is sometimes missing, is that the explanations are a bit "out of context" unless one had the chance to work extensively with earlier versions or if you happen to speak "studio-engineer" in addition to HTML, Fortran, Ruby-on-Rails and Unbutu 

Meaning that it would be nice to see some practical scenarios and examples with what is being described. Or maybe pointers to such things - else the most recent and indeed quite extensive Cubase documentation could easily outgrow the Library of Congress - hehe 

Cheers, Roland

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Roland

Does this mean if you have a song completed on the Genos sequencer and re -record It in Cubase in the retro mode it will then playback and memorize everything including all sys ex  etc
So after that you can stop and strt and then it will remember where it is starting again from.

All the best
John


Ps Roland, just been experimenting with kick drum and bass tonight and i saw a tip on Youtube which actually worked when i done it.
It was a tip from a top mixer so that you can have that dreaded drum and bass play on all systems without worrying about mud. The drum and bass have to be good in the first place for sound
Put a gain plugin on the drum and the bass channel and put the drum gain up to -3 db
Then put the gain of the bass up to 0db.
Turn off the gain of the bass gain plugin and the drum and bass sit just right and both together will play at 0 db. One always affects the other one.
Obviously you would do that at a lower db to leave headroom for other effects etc, but that demonstrates how they sit together.
Also you can hi pass and low pass to cut out the clashing of the little bees!! . Just starting to get the hang of things.
Looking at this side chaining as well. If i can get this drum and bass out of the way the rest is not so bad.


All the best
john

[Bill Grosse]

John,

Also important in Cubase. I found it is a lot like "Word", you need to "Save as MIDI" often to keep from loosing changes. Once saved, it becomes hard data and retrievable.

BillG

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point Bill. The big difference is, Cubase works...Word is so full of bugs that it needs an exterminator. Unlike Microsoft, Steinberg takes their software issues very seriously ! But I digress...

Nice to "hear your voice" on the forum again Bill!

- Lee

[Bill Grosse]

Thanks Lee - I do miss all you guys and gals!

No doubt about it - the best forum ever.

BillG