Sx 900 to Genos - Sample Creator .it buyers beware :(

[Pijeon]

Hey there,

Thanks for all your help so far, and I hope I can get some more perspectives on my situation.

So I bought a sx 900 recently, and bought a £300 + pack from Sample Creator.it -  I heard the quality of the demos and the videos and they are a step above even the internal ones.   

I sent my key file and I got my pack, and all was happy.  However recently, I have had a few small issues with my SX 900 , and was going to exchange it as it was brand new. 

But I saw a great used deal on a Genos, so upgraded to that.  I have bought many expansion packs from 3rd party sellers - and they were all fine in allowing me to transfer the content from my sx 900 to Genos.



However Sample Creator said I would have to buy the Revoultion Algo again from scratch , as they only issue it for one keyboard.  Now I understand they need to protect their IP, but I offered up to £50 as an admin charge, to please alter the license , so I could use it on my Genos, as obviously I would not be using it on my sx 900 anymore.

They refused and stood their ground - so I have opened a case up with Paypal.  I am quite new to the world of arranger keyboards, though have a lot of experience with the Virtual Instrument community as a composer.  And I was really shocked that this would be a problem, and I was expected to spend another £300 for the same content again.

I was shocked, as on their web page it is exactly the same content for sx 900 and Genos - All that needs doing is a license is encoded for your keyboard so you can use it with YEM as I understand it.

https://samplecreator.it/en/product/revolution-algorthim/

This is the product, and I just feel that if you bought a piece of software for your pc, and your pc needed replacing / upgrading, you would be charged for it again, I don't think that is fair, and possible might even be against EU law.

I then started a return request via paypal, as it was within 14 days - usually you give away your right to withdraw with digital goods , unless you have been misled, which I feel I have in this case, as it was not made clear to me when purchasing that the license for 1 machine only.   

So this effectively means if your keyboard breaks / gets stolen or you upgrade, you will have to pay for the same content each time that happens.  I am studying video game composing , and have already done some work, but still have much to learn ; and I don't regret buying this expensive 3rd party pack, as the sounds and styles are high quality.

I just feel they are being unreasonable, in not helping me move my license to my Genos when it arrives.  I will take whatever steps necessary to prove it is no longer on the SX 900, but the best they can do is offer me 50% reduction.

If I agree to this, and my Genos becomes faulty , I will need to purchase again.

Perhaps I am just naieve as I am new to the community, and things work different in the Virtual Instrument community -  It is made very clear that you can or cant transfer to other owners (I.e Resale) but I have never heard of having to pay again for the same set of styles, just because the keyboard is a different I.D

This would also apply if I had replaced the SX 900 with Sx900.   

Once again, I commend the quality and passion that has been put in to these styles, but as of todays date, 21/06 the only mention they make of the license being tied to one machine is in small print at the bottom of their webpage.

I even read the FAQ beforehand, and it makes no mention of this either.   I just want a  solution, and I have offered to pay up to £50 as an admin charge to be able to use the license I purchased on a different keyboard.

If anyone here has an idea how the problem might be solved, or knows more about the law with digital goods, as I feel they are not being reasonable; and if nothing more serves as a warning to customers purchasing from that site.

Hopefully someone here has an idea that can help resolve the issue, and allow me to use the product I bought, and the developer Sample Creator has peace of mind that I am not trying to duplicate or spread their software etc.

Is this standard practice to tie your expansion to 1 machine , even in the event of failure of said keyboard?

Thanks for listening , and please be gentle as I am a newbie here 
Hopefully this can get resolved,

PJ

[Whitecolin11]

had a similar experience with my genos exchange with a different company.
Your n27 file denotes your keyboard expansion on YEM and cannot be accessed to another product. Also similar companies sell RGT files that dont work between different keyboards which is unfair when you upgrade.
I would have thought the bad publicity would have made them relent.
let me no if you have any luck

[DerekA]

If they give you a free copy that's tied to your Genos, you would still have the copy tied to your sx900 which you could in theory sell with your sx900 for profit. So it only seems harsh because it's digital; I mean if you had something physical you would not expect to be given another free one.

[Pijeon]

Yes I understand that.

But surely they could help solve the situation by me paying an admin fee.   Furthermore, every other expansion company have been really helpful.

The issue still remains that if the goods are faulty, then you have to purchase a new license.   I am sure you would not be so happy if say your playstation broke, and they did not let you bring across your digital licenses/content ? 

Besides , it is such a niche product that it would add very little to after sales.  I realise they need to protect their rights but surely a way of compromise can be achieved.

Allow 3 activations would be such an easy way around it ; No one is going to go to such lengths to try and make a few pounds!

[Pijeon]

Thanks White Colin,

I just ask for fairness. I am not trying to cheat anyone.  Most of us are in this for the love of music and playing, not to make as much money as possible .

[groovyband.live]

If you buy the most widespread software in the world (Windows operating system) and install it on a PC, you cannot transfer it elsewhere. It is bound to that PC forever. If one second after the authorization your PC catches fire, or you sell it, the Windows is gone with it. You cannot ask Microsoft to give you for free a new license for your new PC. They will sell you a new license, at full price.

If you install on your car a super duper car hi-fi, and after one day you crash it on a wall, or you sell it, the car hi-fi is gone with the car. You cannot ask the installer to have a new hi-fi on your new car for free. Can you?

If you buy a bunch of sounds and styles in a package called SX900, and after 15 days you sell it and buy another package (called Genos) containing at 90% the same sounds and styles you already bought before, can you ask Yamaha to transfer the sounds and styles you already paid for, into the new package and have it for 90% discount? Did they offer you at least 50% discount? No? Did you complain for that? Is it fair?

Sorry, but the seller of the package you bought is right. He is not bound to give you for free another copy. Not only it was stated on the fine print (that you should always read before you buy), but it was also implicitly clear from the fact the you gave them your n27 file to authorize the package for that hardware.

If you do not like that policy just do not buy that product! Maybe you do not like their commercial policy, but it is fair game, you should have done your homework better before buying. Now yours are unrealistic expectations.

[Pijeon]

Well If that is the way you operate then I do feel for you.  Being kind and helpful is free ;  I never claimed I was "entitled"?  I just feel that they could of been a little compassionate, and helped. 

And with the case with Microsoft , you are incorrect.  This exact case once happened to me, and there support line was very kind and helpful , but I was pleasant to them, and they happily transferred the license.   In fact this has happened multiple times in the V.I community, and it is clearly defined what happens with license transfers.  Sometimes you have to pay a license fee, and when buying a sample library it is made clear in the terms and conditions before sale.

Besides the writing was only in the small print , at the very bottom of the page.  No mention of it either on the FAQ, which would of been one of my

Not sure why you have got such a hump, and I hope you can start enjoying life, as it is too short for arguing.

I am new to the arranging community, though as a composer and have dealt with various digital resellers before, and this is the first time I have came across this issue. 

Like I said I am new here and I have things to learn.; However

Perhaps if you approached things with a slightly softer nicer / happier attitude etc, life would not be so nasty back to you ? 

All the best 

[Joe H]

GB isn't being rude.  He is just stating the facts.  It's a "buyer beware" situation.  Many 3rd party sellers do exactly what you experienced.  Because they don't want you to share the pack with others.  There is a lot of work that goes into creating a pack.  If they gave buyers a non protected pack, it would get circulated around very quickly and they would not sell many more packs.

Joe H

[Lee Batchelor]

Let's keep the roof on, guys.

The one major disadvantage to these forums and other types of digital communications such as emails is, they cannot project "tone." If some person succeeds in integrating that into a digital conversation software, they will become as rich as Bill Gates.

If Groovyband.live and Pijeon were standing on the street corner having the same conversation, I wager there would have been no friction. They'd talk about it, and then head to the coffee shop or pub for a beverage . Keep that in mind.

[Toril S]

Unfortunately this is normal, and we have to live with it.

[Amwilburn]

That's really unfortunate, but as Colin and Derek already said, the problem is on their end, if they give you a free transfer to the Genos version, they have no way of knowing if you have given the original version away with the old PSRsx900. I know it sucks on your end, but from their perspective what if a group of people pooled their money together to purchase 1 copy for 1 sx700... then they claimed that the sx700 died (but didn't, 2 people in the group have sx700's), then claim a couple months later that they upgraded to sx900 (but again, that was 1 of the original group), then again a month later claim they upgraded to Genos (you get the idea, actually a 4th person, and they've now only had to pay 25% of the original price each).

Them offering you the pack for a 2nd keyboard for 50% off seems reasonable, no?

I agree it would be nice if there was just a simple transfer fee like you suggested, but as there is no way for them to know if you uninstalled it from the sx900, that is probably the next best solution; in the case of a Windows license or software that's tied to one pc, as pc's are generally connected to the internet, they *can* disable the license for the old pc. Maybe in the future Yamaha could require their keyboards to be always connected to the internet, so that sample pack sellers could then disable the license on the older instrument. But as you can imagine, an online only requirement would create a whole new set of problems, especially when gigging!


Mark

[supersteve]

Just for the record, Many of us paid a fortune for Yamaha Expansion packs over the time, I bought for Tyros 5 Then got the updates to the Genos and bought new offers again for the Genos , then not long after Yamaha decided to hand out for free !
I'm not complaining it's life some people get lucky .
Happy playing all
Steve

[rene1242]

GB isn't being rude.  He is just stating the facts.  It's a "buyer beware" situation.  Many 3rd party sellers do exactly what you experienced.  Because they don't want you to share the pack with others.  There is a lot of work that goes into creating a pack.  If they gave buyers a non protected pack, it would get circulated around very quickly and they would not sell many more packs.

Joe H

That's true at the same time it's a knife cutting from both sides