Genos and mixing In Cubase

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi To any Masters out there,I need a little help

I have spent three days trying to mix and get a master from my Genos recording.
I transported my midi track into Cubase

I then tidied up some notes  and volumes.
After that I split some tracks to separate tracks, so now I have Instruments  on all tracks.
I put Jean Michel Jarres Oxygene 8 In for a reference track.

Just comparing my recorded midi track to his is a different ballpark.
Jarres recording is twice as loud as my midi track and smooth quality.

Now I have followed what I picked up off of a few videos.
They say gain stage to -12 on all midi tracks, so i have done that with Input and post panner

recorded each midi track separately to make equal amout of wave tracks.

Done all volumes and panning on each track and some EQ and got to a stage where I am happy.

Now to try and master this is another frustration.

Jarres track reaches 0 on input and -3 onpost panner.

I have tried getting near to that and cannot even make a dent. I am stuck at this point
Iwill of course study some more videos, but I am getting a little lost here


My question is  what and where do I go next. Put compressors,limiters in there

Before this all I did was to put a finished wave through a limiter and amplify and that was It.
I want to crack this but It does try your patience

Any help here appreciated


All the best
john


All the best
john

[Roland]

Hello John,

Quite a trip from arranging to recording and mixing and now to the last step, eh?    I am on a project where my mind is still busy with mixing - but I had some discussions with a friend about the next step. So here is what I have learned so far (Not that I didn't master earlier, but my analog mixer at this time is just collecting dust - and I didn't have the change for rack compressors and the like, hehe):

#1: Give your ears a break !  Listening to the same track/parts over and over can make you "sound-blind" and in the end it all sounds the same.

Next: If the base mix is bad, then mastering it will not make it much better.

But you knew that before :-)  In my case, I somewhat did, but I didn't what to listen - hehe.

The sound volume of music productions has only gone up over time. Louder and more punch seems to be the game of the day. That is not where I personally want to go - I prefer to go after clarity, great spectrum and details (not that I get that all the time, but it's where I eventually want to be :-)  ) So something to keep in mind.

Cubase has a few YouTube videos on mastering - I would watch those first. "Bob Katz" is also a name to look-up on YouTube and maybe a few articles on "loudness war".

In the past I used to think that mastering is for wimps and one can do that in 10 minutes. Man was I wrong !!! So my recommendation is to read-up a bit, watch some of the mastering clips and think of what sound picture you have in mind. Jarre is super unique and totally fascinating. I bet he had his own view of how his sound is to be mastered. Maybe you find something about that online or a member on here has already some experience with it.

What am I saying    In other words: NO SHORTCUTS mate !!! 

Hope you're all well and that you're out of that summer heat wave by now. Cheers, Roland

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Roland

I am almost there ,but a million mile away It seems
Hope you are also doing well  M8.

I have got a good sounding mix, but It Is a little too low.
I would like to get the sound up a few notches and keep the clarity.
I think I went a little too low on the gain staging somehow ,so massive headroom and cannot get out of the woods..
I have tried a few presets from compressors and such like ,but i cant get It up to where normaly - 3 dec will do.. always distorts if you step it up.
Maybe I will have to do a higher recording on the Genos first.
Oh well Roland ,off to bed now and have another bash tomorrow.


All the best
john


We should have a special section on Psr tut for mixing tecniques. Also a good problem solver!!

[Joe H]

John,

Have you tried an internet search on the topic of sounding mixing?  There must be many videos out there that will help you with your particular problem.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hey Joe--
"I will reach up to the top of a mountain and chop it down with the ledge of my hand"  even at 67.


I have looked at a few videos and there Is always how to mix and master, but not a real beginners guide.
It would of been nice to see a cubase video of mixing and mastering from the Genos.
I always feel that the pros do not want us amateurs to learn to get their mixes up to their standard
These videos seem to just drip feed or my concentration level is waning.
I think It Is all down to experimenting and learning from failure.
The best guide for me is today is gain staging. I had a more sucessful time with it this morning.
I am getting somewhere now with that as I have taken aboard that once converted to wave tthings like compressors limiters etc have to be made with small moves same as Eq.

There must be a lot of budding musicians like me out there ,useless at picking things up quickly, but once you do ,that's It.
My Imagination is there ,but I have to bring it out

It is like playing football, You have to train relentlessly to get in the Premier League.
I never made It, had to get a proper job. "what's that"!!!


All the best
john

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi again

I have given up on mastering my song as I must have recorded it toooo low  and made gain stage mistakes.
So It Is back to the Genos roots and try to get the best out of that first

I put In on a whim Soundpacks Gold EQ and to my surprise ,it out perfoms anything I have heard up to now.
On my headphones and speakers a lovely warm clear quality and more punchy when you want It.
I will remix my Oxygene 8.
Just playing Police  walking on the Moon and now my Genos is cooking at last. Love making that whopper sound against a reggae rythm. Old fashion authenticity.
I also will get some more ELO songs done .
I practice the keyboard a couple of hours a day and try my hand and failing at Mixing most of the time
Easy to play ,but a bummer mixing for us nubiles.

All the best
John

[pjd]

Hi John --

Here are links for some articles. Sound On Sound magazine publishes a lot of how-to articles on mixing and mastering:

http://prosoundformula.com/how-to-master-a-song/
https://ask.audio/articles/9-essential-cubase-mastering-tips
https://www.musictech.net/2014/08/mastering-in-cubase/
https://www.musictech.net/2014/07/easier-mixing-in-cubase/
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/diy-mastering

The guides from iZotope have good background information about mixing and mastering although the examples show iZotope plug-ins:

http://downloads.izotope.com/guides/iZotope-Mixing-Guide-Principles-Tips-Techniques.pdf
http://downloads.izotope.com/guides/iZotopeMasteringGuide_MasteringWithOzone.pdf

Hope this helps -- pj

[Joe H]

John,

I remember pj had a similar problem.  Take a look at your MIDI and see if there are CC11 Expression messages on each channel.  If there are just delete them  or change the values to 127.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Joe

I had a look In Mixmaster and yes, loads of C11 messages. Lots of them

One thing I have noticed  is that Eq on  settings on the Genos affect the final wave recording output.
Is the eq and compression settings similar to gain staging.
I may sound a little backward here as I thought  the settings that Yamaha provide were adequate.
I used the Gold settings from soundpacks and what a difference to my final output of a wave file.
I listen to pro tracks and hear that pristine clarity and punch if needed with a sharp but not harsh edge.
Also that stereo width with smooth quality which goes over your head

I have gone back to the drawing board with Oxygene 8 and re doing It from scratch and now I am finding out a lot more things in the preparation of a song.
I am getting the registrations right for sitting and playing and trying not to over complicate the arrangement of pressing buttons.
Since I put that Gold settings in the music coming out of my DXR 8's is quality I never head before.
I can now put things in that stereo spectrum and enjoy the outcome as I anticipated.

I will record the song again and put Into Cubase to finalize and maybe put minor boo boo's right.
I hope I get It somewhere right this time
To some people they might thin, what the hell am I worring about, but It is that little perfection thing inside of you that gives you the niggles.
Jimi Jam Jar will not beat me!!
All the best
John