Genos hope in resolving issues and bugs

[franksboard]

when Yamaha made Genos with being able to support for external monitor,they should have provide a Yamaha built adapter so the video works properly without crashing on mp3 cdg files and the up date did not resolve this issue.The Tyros 5 had a VGA output and worked great so why didn't Yamaha provide a VGA port or even a HDMI output.I think they should help all the ones that own a Genos now with a USB to VGA adapter built for this keyboard and provide it free of charge to all the Genos owners .If you are out on a gig and using mp3 cdg files and keeps crashing does not look good having to restart keyboard and not a good reflection of this great keyboard.in a way i am almost sorry i let my tyros 5 go and at a lost some money of my investment for the upgrade.Yamaha needs to show their support if they want new owners of this product and products down the line.Yamaha should not put features on the keyboard that do not work properly.I do love my Genos keyboard but it can't reach its full potential.I bet the next Genos will have VGA or HDMI as so far they have not been able to correct with firmware updates
after all this board is very expensive and should work properly as intended,but over all this board has very nice sounds and nice drums,but i still like the old fashion buttons to select as if some thing happened with the touch screen you would have a hard time using the board.we all need to let Yamaha know we expect this keyboard to work as intended or advertised and show their support as we are keeping them in business and that goes for all their products.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....in a way i am almost sorry i let my tyros 5 go .........Yamaha needs to show their support if they want new owners of this product and products down the line.Yamaha should not put features on the keyboard that do not work properly.....

Very well put.  We expect a new top of the line to have the features of the previous model and then some interesting new things.  (Genos is leighter, has a touch screen, sliders and for me very important much more memory, the user memory in Tyros 5 was a  a desater)
We should never have to regret we switched to the new model.  The constantly made claim "Genos is a completely different animal"  is in MHO compeletely beside the point and advertising hype.  Car manufacturers introduce "the completely new XYZ"  but the brakes and headlights are at least as good as on the old model and in case the steering wheel had a heater the new model cannot do without it.

If the new model lacks something the previous model had that is a blunder of the manufacturer. And sooner or later that will make byers think twice before "upgrading". Being a different animal is not an "upgrade"

It would be interesting to know what percentage of Genos buyers  actually had TYROS models.  In case YAMAHA targeted  another customer segment and was succesful,  the above reflections lose  much of their weight. 
But my bet is we will never be told.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

If the new model lacks something the previous model had, that is a blunder of the manufacturer

Correct, Kaarlo, I think Tyros owners are the prime market for the Genos. It only makes sense. They are the least path of resistance.

You have struck upon a very interesting point for which I can see no resolution: why do engineers take away usable functions, replace them with functions we either don't want, that just don't serve any useful purpose, or simply don't work? What are they thinking?

My only answer is, management wants big and hurried sales to recover the cost of development, and they'll get it at anyway they can. I get it, but management is also telling the engineers,
"Get it out the door as soon as possible. We don't care if it doesn't appeal to users or that it doesn't even work at all. Just get it out so we can brag that we have something new to offer."

That attitude used to be prevalent only among North American companies with annual declining sales figures. Meanwhile, the Japanese companies exploited our complacency and became world leaders. Enter the 21st century. Japanese manufactures have adopted the North American appetite for profit. I need not say anymore.

Back to reality: the Genos I is a remarkable feat of engineering, but the older Yamaha users on this site, and I'm talking about the PSR 630 and later crowd, can remember the times when we bought a new keyboard and the improvements over the old model were stellar, we had everything we had on the previous model, there were no updates because they were not needed, and everything worked as promised. Just like Honda, the milk has been soured. The Japanese of the 60s, 70s, and 80s just spoiled us rotten. Welcome to the 21st century, Japan .

[EileenL]

Well as a very happy owner of Genos I expected there to be changes. I found out as much as I could about it before I purchased it. This included asking our Yamaha Tech department over here in UK what I needed to do to get a smooth change from the content of my Tyros 5 to Genos. I therefore knew all content would work perfectly on a USB stick and all links would be there. If however I wanted to transfer my set ups to the User section I would need to relink them so I was prepared for what I had to do. Also realised that new technology would mean a difference in some actions and that there would be a small learning curve involved. Therefore everything is on the keyboard but sometimes needs a different way of doing things. If it didn't it would have been called Tyros 6. Genos is more advanced and will continue this trait through Genos 2,3 and 4. I am not just saying this but honestly I have never had a problem.

[AlBags]

For a new design of keyboard in 2017 ...
Some areas are ridiculously behind in technology.
HDMi carries massive data possibilities (incl 5.1, 7.1 digital sound) Instead, we have old-fashioned nonsense we have to use work arounds for.
Like the Video out should be hi-res (HD) ... no chance!
Old-fashioned USA standard VGA is what we still use ... in 2018! VGA goes back to 80's/90's.
Screen .. Touch screen is no where near even generations ago smart phone tech.
Why cant they just use an off the shelf hi-def tablet screen?

Next generation, I have learned what we 'can' be fobbed off by ... and what to look for.
Yamaha are catering for the American market in TECH. There is much better!

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

......I think Tyros owners are the prime market for the Genos. It only makes sense. They are the least path of resistance.

.....why do engineers take away usable functions, replace them with functions we either don't want, that just don't serve any useful purpose, or simply don't work? What are they thinking?.......

....the older Yamaha users on this site .... can remember the times when we bought a new keyboard and the improvements over the old model were stellar, we had everything we had on the previous model, ..... and everything worked as promised. ......

Exactly !   But as with the target drones I have been designing for decades many improvements are becoming "asymtotic", e.g. less and less stellar because we are so close to perfection.  For example when the electronic piano or vibes voicse had no touch-response adding simple strike/loudness correlation  made a stellar difference. Now we have several samples for each tone to emulate the fact that a hard strike differs from a soft strike not only in dB.
I do not know after how many samples adding one more becomes futile.   It is the old story called "diminished return on investment".  For my ears there was little - except perhaps the drums - YAMAHA could do to improve the sound of TYROS 5.(the user memory was far too small and the memory implementation on Genos is a stellar improvement)

That said these rules do not  (yet ?)  apply to the user interface's ease of use and intuitivity of implementations.   No doubt, screens have over the years been becoming bigger and bigger and  better, but anyone using the Genos outdoors  or in strong stage lighting will agree the screen is still far from "non-improvable"  in spite of  the  touch-response which not all seem to percieve  a stellar improvement.
No doubt,  the  more assignable buttons the better, but there are still a lot that have no lighting which can not be done by a software update just like making the position of the sliders corresponding to the actual setting which many users find confusing.
Whenever there is a discussion definition of "what is what" is beneficial. There are things
1
in the software that are bugs like freezing. Whether that is easy to fix or not is hard to say. But it must be fixed (The service here fixed it for me)
2
less than perfect implementations that can relatively easily be fixed by a software update,
3
there are things that can only be improved by hardware alteration, e.g. in a new model GENOS II

If we get an OS update that fixes 1 and  most of 2  I feel YAMAHA has delivered  what we can and should expect. As to 3 and any other new capabilities that were not in the published specificastions YAMAHA HAS no obligation whatsoever.   There have been a few hardware additions to products on the market, but they were not free. (memory expansions and the like)

Cheers

Kaarlo