Press the inverted chord.
I'm having a problem that I can't find a way out of
On Genos, when set to Fingering AI Fingerd mode. To play the G/F chord, just press the 2 notes G and F on your left hand.
But I want to play the F/G chord, but I don't know how to press it.
In a few rounds of harmonies, the F/G chord gives us a rather pleasing color.
Can someone guide me please???
I found this (https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=49648.0) older topic on the subject. It seems that G-A-F should work. My T5 shows "F*/G" in the display and indeed I can hear some sort of F chord with a G bass.
[edit] Wrong order.
In AI fingering, you'll have to octave the G, and play the F chord in-between. i.e. G,A,C,F,G
In Fingered On Bass, G,A,C,F will suffice (in AI fingering that will give you F add 9 on a root bass)
What I usually do is play octaves of G on the left hand and any inversion of F on the right hand using AI Full Keyboard.
Mark
Quote from: Amwilburn on Jan 13, 2023, 01:19 PM
In AI fingering, you'll have to octave the G, and play the F chord in-between. i.e. G,A,C,F,G
In Fingered On Bass, G,A,C,F will suffice (in AI fingering that will give you F add 9 on a root bass)
What I usually do is play octaves of G on the left hand and any inversion of F on the right hand using AI Full Keyboard.
Mark
Quote from: Amwilburn on Jan 13, 2023, 01:19 PM
In AI fingering, you'll have to octave the G, and play the F chord in-between. i.e. G,A,C,F,G
In Fingered On Bass, G,A,C,F will suffice (in AI fingering that will give you F add 9 on a root bass)
What I usually do is play octaves of G on the left hand and any inversion of F on the right hand using AI Full Keyboard.
Mark
That is what I would do as well, its the easy way when you are plying full keyboard. If I am playing more conventional arranger, with a split, I would normally play the octave G in the lh and add chord notes of F to my rh. But then that really only works when playing a multi note rh voice like piano or organ etc, and isn't too good if you are playing a single note type voice like sax or trumpet. In those cases there really is no easy way. You have to use what you say above.
In all honesty I don't get caught up too much in 'chord correctness' when I am playing, I go by what sounds good. And in that regard, if you are only holding the chord for one or two beats, the bass may matter more to the overall sound. Experiment.
Mike
Depends on how fussy you are. For most players, the easiest solution is G A F, giving that F*/G. It's not 100% perfect but a darned sight easier than playing a fistful of notes including an octave. Will anyone notice? Perhaps, but my students have used such chords in Diploma level exams and I can tell you that at that level, examiners have good ears and are very picky! None of them have commented so far!
this will Help you Understand AI Fingering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEUVSYmmdcE
From left to right on the keybed: g-g#-a-c-f
You'll need five fingers and it feels a bit awkward, but you'll get a "clean" F over G chord.
Maarten
A bit more than just awkward. I'm a very experienced piano player but would never try to play that kind of lh fingering. And if you use a lh voice the three adjacent notes would surely give a big discord.
Mike
Why is there a g# in there? 3 consecutive notes actually would give a chord cancel, playing no chord at all.
Mark
Quote from: mikf on Feb 27, 2023, 02:07 PM
A bit more than just awkward. I'm a very experienced piano player but would never try to play that kind of lh fingering. And if you use a lh voice the three adjacent notes would surely give a big discord.
AI Fingering was designed to have maximum control over the chords and bass of the style engine, not to be musical pleasing on a piano. ;)
For the latter use case there is Fingered and Fingered On Bass, at the "cost" of not being able to play some chord/bass combinations with the style engine.
I see AI Fingering more of a "programming language" to tell the style engine what to play.
Oh, and you can still use a Fingered style of playing while being in AI Fingered mode.
Maarten
Quote from: maartenb on Mar 03, 2023, 10:15 AM
AI Fingering was designed to have maximum control over the chords and bass of the style engine, not to be musical pleasing on a piano. ;)
For the latter use case there is Fingered and Fingered On Bass, at the "cost" of not being able to play some chord/bass combinations with the style engine.
Maarten
Hello all,
I managed to play "The entertainer (Scott Joplin)" with this AI Full Fingered mode. This allowed me to use both hands to play the original piano score, while enjoying the live accompaniments of the style. The results seemed very interesting, but very few songs are actually compatible with this mode.
Regards.
Quote from: Amwilburn on Mar 02, 2023, 03:16 PM
Why is there a g# in there? 3 consecutive notes actually would give a chord cancel, playing no chord at all.
When you add notes above the three consecutive notes, it's no longer interpreted as a chord cancel. The three consecutive notes instruct the style engine what the bass should play (the lowest of the three) and the notes above it define the chord. It's actually quite brilliant.
I use this notes setting for "Piano Man" by Billy Joel and "Clouds across the Moon" by the RAH Band. Sometimes a F/G sounds better than Fadd9/G.
You do have to be careful with playing this setting though, since if you don't press the notes at the same enough time, you will accidentally trigger a Cancel chord and disrupt your accompaniment!
Maarten
Quote from: soundphase on Mar 03, 2023, 10:22 AM
I managed to play "The entertainer (Scott Joplin)" with this AI Full Fingered mode.
I'd LOVE to hear or, better still, see you play it! Do you have a link to the recording?
Maarten
Quote from: maartenb on Mar 03, 2023, 10:27 AM
I'd LOVE to hear or, better still, see you play it! Do you have a link to the recording?
Maarten
It was on Tyros 5.
https://youtu.be/KEWMoRzLF1o
Maarten
I think you missed my point. I know what AI is for, and how it works. My comment is that G G*A C F is such an awkward fingering shape that almost no-one would want to play it. The chances of getting it wrong much exceeds the benefits of technical correctness. Better for most to find an easier to play chord that gives a reasonable musical result if not exact accuracy. In most cases the bass is the important note musically as long as the chord doesn't grate.
Quote from: maartenb on Mar 03, 2023, 10:25 AM
When you add notes above the three consecutive notes, it's no longer interpreted as a chord cancel. The three consecutive notes instruct the style engine what the bass should play (the lowest of the three) and the notes above it define the chord. It's actually quite brilliant.
I use this notes setting for "Piano Man" by Billy Joel and "Clouds across the Moon" by the RAH Band. Sometimes a F/G sounds better than Fadd9/G.
You do have to be careful with playing this setting though, since if you don't press the notes at the same enough time, you will accidentally trigger a Cancel chord and disrupt your accompaniment!
Maarten
I didn't know you could 'program' the chords that way; interesting!
I'm still not sure how that's easier than G-A-C-F-G, especially since I'd just hold the top F & G with my thumb. But it's good to know it can be used for something other than chord cancel (but yeah, I can see people accidentally chord cancelling if they hit the lowest 3 notes first
Mark
Quote from: mikf on Mar 03, 2023, 01:07 PM
Maarten
I think you missed my point. I know what AI is for, and how it works. My comment is that G G*A C F is such an awkward fingering shape that almost no-one would want to play it. The chances of getting it wrong much exceeds the benefits of technical correctness. Better for most to find an easier to play chord that gives a reasonable musical result if not exact accuracy. In most cases the bass is the important note musically as long as the chord doesn't grate.
Ah yes, that too... if you can't easily hit G-A-C-F-G, the next best thing I would do is just G-F. It's actually surprisingly close (just an F octave over a G bass)
Quote from: mikf on Mar 03, 2023, 01:07 PM
My comment is that G G*A C F is such an awkward fingering shape that almost no-one would want to play it. The chances of getting it wrong much exceeds the benefits of technical correctness. Better for most to find an easier to play chord that gives a reasonable musical result if not exact accuracy. In most cases the bass is the important note musically as long as the chord doesn't grate.
Hi Mike,
I agree that the fingering is awkward, that the bass is the musically important note and that in many cases approximations/variations of a (slash) chord will be better suited to a player.
I just want to point out that there are use cases where the musical benefit of a "clean" F/G chord outweighs the disadvantage of the awkwardness and risk of accidentally triggering a Cancel chord. I'm talking about the musical aspect here, not technical correctness.
For example, while for most styles the difference in sound for a Fadd9/G compared to a F/G is subtle, there are styles where the difference is more clearly. Sometimes it matters for a song, sometimes it does not. In the songs I mentioned in my above post, I really like the sound of the F/G more than Fadd9/G or F*/G.
Another use case is when I record the chord progression of a song into a DAW on my computer. Here I can quantize the left hand chord notes, so there's no risk of triggering a Cancel chord. With the computer I have all the time and freedom to go for the chord sound I like best for a song.
I love the fact that I have the choice to play variations of chords, so I can make the choice based on my specific needs and song. Live I might go for a Fadd9/G, while in the computer or while practicing I might go for a F/G.
Maarten