Audio routing question

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi everyone,

I connect the Main L/R and R jacks from my Genos to my mixer, so my Genos is played in stereo over two Bose Pro 8 speakers. I want to send just the Drum parts to a smaller third monitor speaker so the vocalist can stay in time with the style. He has a hearing problem and needs the extra drum monitoring. I still want the full style to play through both Bose.

If I attach a phone plug to 3 Aux Out (for example), and re-root the drum part to that jack, will the drum part go to his monitor AND both my Bose speakers?

Thanks 👍.

[Rupp]

Unfortunately not. The output of a part can only be routed to one output (main+aux together or sub1-4, not both).

[Rupp]

to my mixer

You can send all the parts except drums to main, drums to sub 1&2, set the same level on your mixer to mix them for the main speakes and use an free mixer's aux for drum monitor only. But the system effect (chorus, reverb and vari, if set to system, will not be applied to drums). Not very handy.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Rupp. That's what I suspected. In a way, Yamaha dropped the ball on this for professional users however, I was thinking your method would be a suitable work-around. I have the gear and wiring for that.

I have a show coming up soon where I can try that. I'll keep everyone posted as to the effectiveness. Thanks again...

- Lee

EDIT
I can add effects to the Aux sends on my Mackie mixer, however, 99% of the time I run my drums dry.

[Lee Batchelor]

The results of my experiment are in. Here's what I did.
1) I connected the Main L/R and R jacks from my Genos to my mixer, to my two Bose Pro 8 speakers.
2) I connected a cable from the Sub1 [L] output of the Genos to an empty channel on my mixer.
3) On the Line Out page > Drums& Percussion, I assigned the desired drum instruments to Sub1 [L].
4) I ran a cable from the Aux 1 output of the mixer to a small powered monitor speaker.

On playback, the whole song plays perfectly through the Bose Pro 8 speakers. When I turn up the Aux 1 send from the Sub1 [L] channel strip the selected drum parts come through the small powered monitor BUT so does the Right piano part and bass guitar. I checked the reference manual but it has no examples of how this can be achieved. Any further thoughts on how I can achieve this simple but highly complex task? Thanks.

[Lee Batchelor]

I found the answer.

Instruments that you only want played through your main speakers must be routed to Sub Outs 1 and 2. Those outputs on the Genos must be connected to two channel strips in your mixer (if you want stereo).

The parts you want to go to the mains speakers and the single monitor speaker must be assigned to the Mains + Aux part of the Line Out menu. Then you connect another cable from 4 [Aux Out] to an empty channel strip, and then use its Aux out to feed the powered monitor. You can also connect the 4 [Aux Out] to a small mixer, and on to the powered monitor.

This is a crazy way to do this. It goes against convention but then again, we're talking about Yamaha here . If Yamaha instructed you on how to carve a statue of an elephant, they would tell you to obtain a 10 ton block of stone and remove everything that doesn't look like an elephant.

[Rupp]

It seems like you accidentaly plugged cable for the drum monitor to Aux1 out from Genos instead of Sub1 out.

Everything should go out through main L/R to mix (to FOH speakers), except instruments/parts routed to Sub1/2 (to another mixer input to be able to send them to small monitor via mixer's aux individualy).
Aux outputs on Genos seems to be same as main outs, simply like the same signal on two jacks, main and aux (say the one for main out and the second for personal monitor).
May be draw your setup?

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Rupp,

You were right but so was I. The issue was with my Mackie mixer, model ProFXv3. Sadly, it has no dedicated Aux Out on each channel. Instead, you must use the Insert jack for that channel, as an Aux Out BUT only push the plug in part way ! I had to Google that. Now, your method works. My method worked by using the 4 [Aux Out] on the Genos to the sub-mixer, however it was a very convoluted solution that compensated for a toy mixer that I never should have bought  !!

Yesterday, I went to my music store and ordered a new Yamaha mixer, model MG12XU. It can be seen on the Guests are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login. It has a dedicated Aux out on each channel. I also believe Yamaha uses the same mic preamps in their stage models as their high end professional mixers used in large venues. The same applies to their effects.

Thank you so much for helping me, Rupp! .

[Rupp]

I'm afraid MG12XU is almost the same like ProFXv3 regarding AUXes, one pre-fader (used normally for monitor) and one post-fader (used normally for internal FX say for mics). Neither one has individual outputs from input channels (and this is not even needed, ProFX at least allows part way plugging to get individual channel signals). What you need is an mixer with two pre-fader AUX buses alowing you to make two independent mixes to monitors, one for you (all the keyboard and mics) and one for your singer (mic + drums, may be with some signal from keyboard).

Draw your setup, may be you are using summed output for your monitor the same as for FOH (sometimes it is just fine), may be you have your own monitor with different mix ratio of keyboard and your mic and singer needs another one with different mix. May be an mic goes through Genos for the harmony, I don't know.

If your requirement is taking BD+SD (or anything else sent to Genos sub output) to an special monitor (and nothing else like mic) and you want to avoid partially plugged cable into Mackie then you can make special cable for such monitor: use an mono cable, mono TS jack on the monitor side, stereo TRS jack with shorted tip and ring together on the mixer side. Mark this cable by an significant color as for this monitor only!!! 

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Rupp,

I looked at the Aux jacks on the MG12XU and each Aux knob has a Pre-fader button. I assume when pushed in gives, you the pre-fader Aux send. Isn't this what I need?

I took a screen shot but I have no idea how to add the image to this new forum software. I assume the image has to be uploaded to a hosting site but which one?

[Rupp]

MG12XU's AUX1 can be switched as pre-fader or post-fader, AUX2 is post fader. ProFX's AUX1 is pre-fader, AUX2(FX) post-fader always. But output is AUX bus mix, not individual outputs. The difference between pre/post is whether the fader movement affects the aux level. Usualy pre-fader is used for the monitors (you'll get still the same aux signal regardless of fader position) and post-fader is used for effects (increasing fader increases FX too, zero fader = zero FX). But for almost steady mixing two-person gig both pre/post AUXes can be used for monitors and effects, four knobs to move, not complicated 

How many monitors do you have and how many independent mixes do you need?
Main mix for FOH is clear - mixing main L/R from Genos with sub out from Genos. Mics are mixed on ProFX too or an mic goes through Genos mic input?
Do you need an special mix different from FOH for your monitor? Like mic only, no (or weakened) keyboard? Or can it be the same like FOH?
Does the singer need an mix of something (say keyb, SD+BD, mic) or needs only SD+BD (Genos sub out)?

Any hosting should work for drawing, google photos, icloud, postimages, imgbb...

[Lee Batchelor]

How many monitors do you have and how many independent mixes do you need?

Just one monitor for the Genos drum parts. My vocalist (Brian) sings through his own Bose Compact. Sorry, forgot to mention that . If we need more of his vocals, he can line out his vocal channel to my mixer and on to my two much larger Bose Pro 8 speakers.

Dumb old me should have laid out our stage scheme before asking! Brian plays guitar and sings though his own mixer and Bose Compact. For most venues this is fine. He's losing his hearing and needs a little more definition from the Genos drums in his own monitor so he can stay on beat. Despite the size and clarity of my Bose, he can't discern the drums well enough from the entire mix. I want to send the drums only from my mixer to his monitor.

I have achieved this with my Mackie mixer and need to do the same with the new Yamaha, which I believe is possible.

[Rupp]

So MON (aux1) on your ProFX is of no use? Then turn up MON knob in BD+SD channel, turn up AUX MASTER knob and use MON SEND output jack for monitor. I'm afraid Yamaha mix is unnecessary.

You can make different signal routing on Mackie too:
- route main Genos L/R to main mix (press channel L-R button)
- route Genos sub out (SD+BD) to sub1-2 first (press channel 1-2 button, leave L-R not pressed)
- route sub1-2 to main mix (press L-R button in sub1-2 section)
Then you can take SD+BD signal from sub out jack in the output section, no aux needed

[Lee Batchelor]

So MON (aux1) on your ProFX is of no use?

There is no Monitor out on the ProFX. There are Headphone, Control Room, and FX Send jacks.

The FX Send works but if I want to turn the drums down a bit on the Mains, it also cuts the level going to Brian's monitor mixer. The Insert (partially plugged in) sends the pre-fader signal, allowing me to lower and raise my drum levels independently from his mix.

The Control Room and Headphone sends bleed the Bass channel and Right channels into Brian's monitor mixer. I have no idea why.

This leaves me only one answer - the Insert plug left partially out. The Yamaha mixer's Aux send can be configured as pre-fader and should work fine. I have other reasons for wanting the Yamaha mixer too.

By the way, what does SD+BD mean? Thanks, Rupp.

[Rupp]

There is no Monitor out on the ProFX. There are Headphone, Control Room, and FX Send jacks.

What? I see MON SEND jack (pre-fader) just next to XLR outs Guests are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login

Don't use FX send, it is post-fader and using effect together with monitor is then complicated. Forget Control Room or Headphone outputs. Keep it simple.

The Yamaha mixer's Aux send can be configured as pre-fader

Exactly same as Mackie's MON (aux1)

SD+BD: you've mentioned in an previous post you are sending only some drum instruments to sub out in Genos for singer (instead of whole drum part) so I supposed you are sending bass drum and snare drum (I would do it that way, they are panned to the center requiring one mono cable. Other drums like cymbals or toms should be stereo requiring two cables).

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Rupp,

You're looking at the ProFX12, which has the Monitor Out. Mine is the Guests are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login.
Looks like I have the best solution by using the partially inserted plug to the Insert. It works great!

[Rupp]

Aaah, ProFX10, never mentioned before, that explains a lot

[Lee Batchelor]

You're right, Rupp! I should have been more explicit. There are 6 mixers in the ProFX line. Sorry about that! And thanks for the great help 👍.

[Rupp]

I'm glad you found solution.
Such direct outs (partially inserted plugs) will not be available on your new Yamaha mixer so use aux1 then.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Rupp. You saved me a ton of time. Hope I can return the favor someday.

Agreed about the Yamaha not having partial insert plugs. I prefer the fully seated plugs. The mic preamps in the Mackie are okay but not great. I'm sure those in the Yamaha will be better. What part of the world do live in? I'm about 100 km east of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Stay well, my friend.

[Rupp]

I prefer the fully seated plugs.

Then you can use modified cable. Partialy inserted jack on most Mackie mixers doesn't break insert path (insert in and out are still connected in internal jack) and allows you to take signal out of mixer like "direct out" from the input channel. If you fully plug TRS jack with tip and ring contacts shorted together into the mixer insert jack the insert path will go through such jack unbroken and you can get required signal from tip/ring tied together. But such non-standard cable must not be used for anything else
And I'm from Europe, too far