Genos 2 and Cubase 14

[dsmidiman]

A while back I downloaded a file from somewhere that automatically set up Cubase 14 to Genos 2 midi tracks. Not an instrument definition file but a file that set up midi tracks in Cubase to match the midi tracks on my Genos2. i.e. Right1 to track? Right2 to track? and so on. It enabled me to play the Genos2 and have each part played at the same time and recorded on separate tracks at the same time. I've since lost the file and can't remember where I got it. I've also spent a lot of time trying to recreate it myself with no luck. I've even youtubed it. Does anyone have that file or know where to get it? Thanks in advance Daryl 

[yogi62]

dsmidiman

What I believe you are referring to is a Cubase template. Unfortunately, My main computer is in for an upgrade so I am unable to post the template I use at present. However, what may be of interest is the way I have the midiparts setup in my Genos2. I have one setup for transmit (recording into Cubase) and a second for receive (playback). This prevents any data conflicts. I have the two setups stored in my 'midi'folder under user. For quick access I have assigned the 'midi' function to one of the assignable buttons so I can quickly switch between the two setups. Download link below:

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My Cubase template was created based on the excellent tutorial by 'Tiho'- Youtube (link below). Whilst it is for Cubase 13 the principal is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5oCSiWajQ4&ab_channel=Tiho

Hope this help

[eallan]

yogi62 ,
Would greatly appreciate it if you could share your Template one your Computer is up and running.

[yogi62]

Motherboard failed and has gone back to Europe under warranty, will be around 4-5 weeks before I see it returned. I'm currently checking back up drives to see if I have a copy I can upload.  Backups are on second removable internal M2 SSD drive so I have ordered an external enclosure/interface which should arrive in approx 5 days.

[yogi62]

eallan,

I have managed to retrieve the files so please find attached link for Cubase 14 template, Cubase Genos 2  script (and location to install). My audio interface is a Steinberg UR22 so you will need to setup the in/outs according to your interface.

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good luck:)

[eallan]

yogi62 ,

Many Thanks for posting your files.
Hope your replacement Motherboard arrives swiftly.

[yogi62]

eallan,

Your welcome.

As a side note, the reason there are two files for the Genos 2 is because the 'record' one is used to sync with cubase using cubase external time clock. This allows me to 'prime' the G2 and have the chosen style start when cubase starts recording. eg: allows one of the beginnings to start on the G2 before I record the main music. If you don't intended to sync just use the 'playback' G2 setting to record and playback.

Also, when recording, it is best to switch to the required style AFTER the start of the recording so the style program changes are recorded. The G2 does not send the initial program style info when started, you need to change the style to do this. Once done delete the initial first bar etc.

If there is a better way to achieve this, hopefully someone more knowledgeable here can tell us how?     

Finally, be aware that some of the instruments may sound a bit odd when played back, this is because cubase records some of them an octave higher that they should be (down to Yamaha).

Have fun

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
I have tried myself to record on all channels at once and after following Tiho on Youtube,it still sounds like a mess.
So if your files work and some notes higher. It may be down to the setup again.
On Tiho video he uses channel 1 for information and then start from channel 2.
I still am confused at the what you have to do to get it like Tiho does.
I am also not sure what Transport - then Project Synchronization setting you have to put in.
I am about 75% there. Still having blond moments over 25%

All the best
John

[yogi62]

[quote author=JohnS (Ugawoga) link=msg=528993 date=17382340
So if your files work and some notes higher. It may be down to the setup again.

It's not due to the setup, I believe it is more to do with the higher register of the real world instruments eg: flute/saxophone etc.  Easily sorted out by dropping the track by an octave after recording.

As to sync, I'll visually upload my settings later today - busy day today so no time at present


All the best
John
[/quote]

[yogi62]

Hi JohnS,

Please see link below with updated template and .pdf instructions that may help. To be fair, Cubase multitrack recording and Genos 2 takes a bit of getting used, especially if you are using sync between the two and whilst I do ok I am by no means an expert !! - in my case failure is an option

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Whilst I have made no reference to it in my very basic guide, I also record the audio during my takes, this allows me to hear if the midi tracks are playing back precisley what the audio recorded eg: any pitch/voice changes etc.

If you want to be able to change voices during post edit, don't forget to install the Genos 2 script.

Have fun

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
I downloaded all the information and set the Genos 2 to the letter.
All recorded, but not precisely.
A couple of tracks would not sound or sound thin. All mixer levels were up ok.
It just does not sound right.
I had a style going with an arpeggio in it on a modern style and that track did not sound at all.

I am baffled with all the hit and miss.
I thank you for all of the information which is a great job.
I will have another look tomorrow.

I find at the moment is to record all  of the style by step chords and fills etc. This way also stops the bleed overs.
Just map out how many bars of what you want and off you go.
Once that is done you can either add track by track on the Genos 2 or export the chord style track into Cubase 14.
There you can record the Genos 2 quite easily playing main tracks or use vst.
As said previously in a thread, the Genos 2 leaves note partials in the style tracks which is annoying and affects the clarity.  You have to FUNCTION and decrease a size of note by the increment bar and highlight all of the bar and press delete which gets rid of those nasty little gremlins. This is all because we are humans and cannot play like a robot, 100th of a second out.
If making a song, it saves a lot of time and you can spend more time practicing live.
I do dissolve drum tracks so I can work on them for the mix.  Mixing in Cubase, the Frequency EQ is 100% as it does dynamics, side chaining, mid and sides.,See Dom's video on that . He does loads of videos for Steinberg on YouTube Recommended.

I also thought about going to quick record and playing all chords in a song and record fills also which can be done very quickly.
Export to Cubase 14 and then you have your instant midi pack. Record to wave file and slice them up. You now have Lego Bricks.  

All the best
John

[yogi62]

John,

Sounds like you are far more advance in technique than me, I like things as simple as possible,

Out of interest, which style did you use? I have found that on playback a number of volumes are quite a bit off - go figure?

I guess the best solution is to record what you can and do a post edit in cubase to include any vst's and then bouncy down to an audio track.

If you record the midi and audio from the G2 at the same time (which is what I like to do) you can then compare the playback to see what's not quite right.

 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
I am of the conclusion that mainly learn the song over a period of a week and play the whole thing into the sequencer and edit only in Cubase and then turn to wave file and mix. Far easier than all of the mind boggling ideas

[yogi62]

OK, it's about whatever works best for each of us.

regards
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
I do not know How Tiho gets it all working as i have followed all of his videos.
The broken accent does not help which is not his fault.

I have tried all shortcut methods and the step record on the Genos 2 is great for a single style.
There is nowhere to put a program change in.

Tiho's method is long winded

Producer is buggy but the idea is there and would be great if you could use your own styles , but it only has a list of Genos presets.

The best way is to learn a song over and over and get it done in one go on quick record. If you make small mistakes, you can repair them in Cubase 14.
For me to curse whilst recording is certain and I hate It If a fill gets missed or a bleed over of instruments happens when changing registration.
It is then back to the registration to find out why and rectify any bleeds ( It helps if all volumes match in registration variations and left hold off)
After that export to Cubase for editing.

In Cubase 14 go through your song and rectify mistakes whilst in midi mode.
All Information is on main track 1.
After you have everything in order Record your main track to wave file and cut the Instrument sections and place them on separate tracks.
Slice the Instrument parts and you can magnify where you need to slice and when pulling down to another track instance. The magnify will make sure you get lined up.
Go through the Style tracks and go to FUNCTION  and DELETE NOTES and then look at each style track and look at the unwanted partial notes left behind because of minute human timing errors. Make a short note smaller than the smallest style notes by moving a little bar. After that highlight the whole track and press delete. You can do that by bringing the magnification down so you can see the whole track. After that Quantize then inspect track to see if there are no gaps where a note should start. All depends on how big the partial notes are
This will result later in making the song clearer by taking the mud out of the style.
I dissolve the drum tracks into separate tracks also to work on them.
Once all done record all other tracks to wave files

So by turning the main track to wave and cutting the instrument parts to separate tracks and dissolving the drums gives you a perfect start for mixing.
Now is the time the fun starts!!!    

[yogi62]

Hi John,

It was interesting to hear you say Tiho's method was long winded and then I went on to read your full post!

Crickey! you certainly go through a fair number of stages...

Do I read into this that you are still unable to get multi-track recording to work in cubase?

Out of curiosity, I multitracked and recorded the audio into cubase using the 'famouse names' reg's by starting record and then pressing each of the 10 registration button in turn. I have included the cubase template, the audio file and the FN reg in the link. Each reg sent the appropriate program changes correctly - I never recorded any upper voices as I was only interest in the styles.

I used the audio track to compare the midi playback and all seemed fine. If you load teh template and then import the audio track you will see how it sounds. Copy the Famous Names .reg to a usb and load from there.

I'd be interest in your thoughts?

regards
Mike

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[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
Yes, I had trouble with the setup with all the first templates.
I got everything recorded , but some tracks sound too thin or not the way they play when just using the Genos 2
I put template in and the two Midi sets that is on and off.
I had an arppegio in a dance style track that I chose out of the blue to test and it did not sound at all right.
Maybe there is a few more settings needed somewhere, but I cannot fathom it out as I use The Genos 2 with Cubase 14.
All I am mainly interested in is getting a style track into cubase and variations to turn to wave.
I have successfully got the Genos sounds to play normally using the script for midi recording.
It is the Styles that need looking at in my case.
I have no troubles with vst's but it would be great to layout a style track.
I will certainly have another go and look at your templates, but i am not an expert in the Tiho method yet.


All the Best
John
Ps  God knows how he got the Genos to act as a controller. The man is a wizard.

[Michael Trigoboff]

You can record MIDI from things you play yourself directly into Cubase with no problem, and it will play back just as you performed it. What you cannot do is record a style's MIDI output directly into Cubase.

The problem seems to be that the MIDI output from styles includes non-standard Yamaha-specific MIDI messages that Cubase either fails to record or screws up. When you play the recorded MIDI back into your Genos, it will sound very wrong.

What you can do instead is record the MIDI generated by the style to the Genos itself, transfer the recorded MIDI file to your computer via a USB Drive, and import it into Cubase. That works just fine.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Michael

This is exactly where I am with this.
Yogi is a little more Into It than us as Tiho on video seems to get it right.
I followed all the steps but fail to get the same results. You are right about midi messages getting screwed up.
I will have another look his templates and report back.
The main reason for me is to get a style track recorded without all of those horrid little note partials that muddy the song.
Oh well I have got Status Quo, Ice in The sun ready to mix and now when i have learnt a song  i can play all way through on Genos2 with a couple of bumps.
I would like to know why songs of the 60's and 70's are not played, only the bog standards.
Just got to grips with Barclay James Harvest  "African Nights". It would be great if more attention was paid to the great songs of our time.
I would like to crack the Tiho method but will have to find the secret!!    
How is the Grateful Dead coming along??
My US  Favourite is Poco - Rose of Cimmaron

[yogi62]

Hi John,

On checking, it appears I made a small error in the 'playback' settings on the G2. On the receive channels Phrase 1 & 2 should have been to channels 11 and 12 respectively - I had duplicated the Style Chord 1&2 in error.

The link below includes the amended playback2 - or you just simply change the two channels on your playback settings to the correct ones.

I have also included a very basic looper chord progression Bb/Gm/Cm7/F which I used for the Cubase recording, I also switch between the main variations A/B/C and D to check for any anomalies

As previous, I have also included the .wav audio file exported from the Cubase recording as an audio reference.

Michael has previously posted good info on the vagaries of G2/Cubase and his suggestion (which I agreed with previously) is a good choice. That said I do like a challenge

As to the recording process:
1. I set the left locator at bar 1
2. Selected a different style on the G2
3. Start recording and select the correct style on the G2 (this sends the program changes)
4. Set the left locator at bar 2 (where cubase will start to record)
5. Record your song

Once recorded, if you playback from bar 1 Cubase will send all the program changes to match the style

This means that even if you have a different style selected on the G2 it will still playback correctly according to the original style. I only recorded the style directly into cubase as multitracks to see if it played back ok - it did (playback the linked cubase template via G2 and listen to the recorded audio for comparison). Note: I never recorded any right hand upper voices.

The style I used was Oldies/60's Rythmn & Blues

Michael,
If you have the time or inclination, would you be kind enough to give the template a try and let me know what issues you may come across? The original G2 setting link is in my first post.

Original G2 settings link
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Revised template G2 playback settings
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cheers
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi  "no more Boo Boo's"

I changed over the Off midi for the new one and put On back in.

Loaded up your song and it played without any faults . sounded normal.
 So, I have a different style at start.
Now i choose a correct style after pressing record and  stop any time at end of bar 1 or a little after, which can be slid back to end of bar 1 instead of chopping it
Can I stop at end of bar 1 and when ready start at Bar 2 as information is already recorded . Is that right ?
I will update you how I get on as we are nearly there at the finish line.
It is similar to doing sounds as i found out how to get a user sound to play without it being in the Genos list.
Similar method start the recording and choose a  Genos sound in list  and then press a user sound from the Genos and it will take over.
When It comes to recording that track to wave you have to press record and then user sound again before it gets to the midi notes and you will get the wave recorded with the user sound. I will later have to learn how to add user sounds to the list which is buried somewhere on C drive.

To recap at moment your song plays nice and I am about to look into It further.
See you later and thanks for being patient as the brain cells are slowing down at 74.
All of this does help to keep the brain healthy.

All the Best
John

[Michael Trigoboff]

How is the Grateful Dead coming along??

Just fine, thanks. I really enjoy playing along with them.

In the benighted 20th Century, I played their LP's on a turntable that had a speed adjustment so that I could have the Grateful Dead play in tune with my untunable Wurlitzer electric piano. My old Grateful Dead albums all have the turntable setting written on their labels. I also had a cassette player with a speed adjustment for the same purpose.

Now, in the wonderful 21st century, I can easily tune my Genos2 to be perfectly in tune with them. And, when I am feeling lazy, I can transpose my Genos2 to allow me to play along with them in the key of C, regardless of what key they are actually playing in.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
Still struggling here as to get things going.
I save a copy of your template and delete song.
I put into record mode and start the first bar after highlighting everything.
Do i stop recording after the first bar and set the song to record on bar two on the second start.
I just cannot get it like your template just yet
Hi Michael how are you getting along with these yogi templates??.
Is it me as the sounds on his template sound ok , but i still think that the sound has a thin touch to it when i start to emulate how the template works.
It is getting late here now and my brain needs a slice of toast and a coffee. That should give me nightmares!!!


All the Best
John

[Michael Trigoboff]

Hi Michael how are you getting along with these yogi templates??.

It is getting late here now and my brain needs a slice of toast and a coffee. That should give me nightmares!!!

Just getting started. I ran yogi62's MIDI settings through Guets are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login that prints out their contents so I could start to see what was going on. Here's what I found:

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Your remark about your brain reminds me of this quote from Even Cowgirls Get The Blues by Tom Robbins:

The brain, our most important organ, in the opinion of the brain.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The brain, our most important organ, in the opinion of the brain.

All depends where your brain is

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi

I see your template was created 3rd of February and put the 2nd of February one in.
When I get back from picking up my new glasses i will go again.
To get this right when i choose correct style after pressing record ,i just let that go for one bar so it picks up the style information?
Then stop and start recording the chords from bar two?
Another little problem i get is i have all the settings for the metronome and it does not sound. I must be missing something there or one of my blond moments.

All the best
John

[yogi62]

Hi John,

To clarify.
Use the same settings as in 'Genos Studio Playback2' so you are not syncing to Cubase

1 Select any style on the G2
2 Important: Set the record mode to start recording from bar 1 (if record is set to bar 2 when you fitst start recording it will not record the initial program changes)
3 Start recording
4 Select and press the style you want to record (do this as soon as you start recording so it records within the first bar)
5 Stop recording
6 Change the record mode to start recording at bar 2
7 Record your song

When you playback set to playback to start from bar one (which now contains the correctly recorded program changes for the chosen style)

As to the metronome - same here. I'll take a look and see if I can work it out. Ideally I would like it to sound through my monitors connected to my audio interface so it does take up any midi channel. I'm sure there is a setting in Cubase to send via audio?

Note: The screenshot that Michael uploaded is of the G2 setting I originally uploaded, not the one I amended (use the latest 'Genos Studio Playback2' instead).

Let me know how you get on?

Michael, if possible could you please upload a screenshot of the revised 'Genos Studio Playback2' file

[yogi62]

John,

Screenshot added for metronome. I have the sound playing back through my monitors after I set up the 'stereo' option in cubase.

Not sure how to insert a screenshot link in the way Michael did?

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[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi

I have been having little successes, but i need to keep going over what i am hearing.
I think now I have the right combination of templates.
I have now just got to remember the Tempo when recording In that little bit of information at the beginning.
I have got the metronome working on playback but not recording and I will also look again at the metronome chart to stick a dot on record as well.
With my setup listening to the Genos through my AKG 702's the sound is as it is for the settings I made and nice warm sound.
I have a Focusrite 4i4 in the chain and when I go over to the computer I have another set of AKG's plugged into my 4i4 and the sound is much sharper from the Genos2., but when i convert to wave file it is warm  again. I do not need the Focusrite on at this stage but I cannot turn It off as it has no switch (design annoyance). It always lights up when the computer is on. Of course I can pull the plugs at back out if I wanted Temporally, but there is no point in that. These boxes never fail you and last ages.

Tomorrow,  once i get the Bosch man out the way to mend our oven and put a new Gas lifter in my Exec Cherry Tree swivel chair I will get this right I hope . Them things only last a year and then you are wobbling all over the place like a demented chicken Which gives you a sense of vertigo.  

So far I had some funny sounds coming out after recording on channel 2 for some reason. It seems to have a mind of it's own
I came out and went back in and all was doing well.
I just need to do a few more styles to confirm all ok as I may have had the ON off and or Off on the Genos 2, something like that,
 
It is just getting used to the One bar trick before recording. as it can be all fingers and thumbs before you quickly change to the style you want.


All the Best
John  

[yogi62]

Hi John,

No one said life would be easy

At our age, (I'm just behind you at 73) we have to try to keep the old grey matter active and cubase/G2 will certainly take care of that!!

At present I'm looking at the various parameters the G2 transmits and cubase records regarding the upper three voices. I've noticed that some of the sounds lack richness on playback, especially the rotary organs?

The other thing worth considering is if you have a number of registrations setup for a single song, perhaps buttons 1-5 for start/verse/chorus/ending etc. it's worth pressing button 2 BEFORE recording anything. Then, start Cubase recording for first bar as before and then press button 1 during recording the first bar to set all the parameters up. Then carry on recording from bar 2 as usual.

That said, after recording the first bar it's worth selecting the bar in the track and examining the recorded events in the list editor just to make sure you have the program changes showing etc. I have found that sometimes this does not work first time and can be the culprit for a bad recording/playback.

As I am sure you have gathered by now, G2 and Cubase is certainly a challenge and it may well be that as Michael has said the sys data transmitted / received may never result in a trouble free recording but given there is only crap on the TV it keeps me active

cheers
Mike