Genos 2 and Cubase 14

[Michael Trigoboff]

Not sure how to insert a screenshot link in the way Michael did?

I have a Windows machine, and I use OneDrive. You can get a share link for a file stored in OneDrive. So I uploaded the screenshot to one drive and pasted the share link into the message here.

[Michael Trigoboff]

Michael, if possible could you please upload a screenshot of the revised 'Genos Studio Playback2' file

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[yogi62]

Thanks Michael,

I use 'Box' but I am curious as to how you have used a text link in place of the html link?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi
I think It is best to Go with Michael for now as I am not up to in depth computer speak.
I do find it much easier to play the chords into the Genos and export to Cubase

All the Best
John

[yogi62]

Hi John,

I fully understand, Cubase/G2 is not for the feint hearted and may never fully work. At present I am having issues with some miditracks failing to play back at all, even though the notes have clearly been recorded. Steinberg forum has mentioned there is a bug that for some reason arbitarily mutes the track even though the mute button has not been selected are is not yellowed out?

Out of curiosity, today I recorded a midi song in G2 and imported into cubase. However, cubase interprets the midifile and sets all the tracks to play back via Halion - not what I want!  I need to have the correct program changes to match the G2 etc.

Whilst a pain in the backside I'll still try and see if I can find a working solution.

For now I think I'll put this thread to bed

All the best
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi settings for Focusrite 4i4


I set my audio connections first For importing Midi files into Cubase 14 from Genos 2
Get these right first and I always use Control Room  Control room is great for putting Sonarworks and AB Metric on ( Dynamics and referencing) and Tonal balance to get all in line with good crest factor)
This Control Room is a must to learn and does not affect the master output when mixdown to single wave file when mastered, or should I say attempting to get mastered!!! Takes time to learn this with small moves on everything to add the final polish. I just keep learning.

Audio Connections
On the Inputs Stereo In stereo in left and right  is Input 1 & 2
Now I put another Input in Stereo 2 and that is Input 3 & 4.

I always use Control Room

Cue 1  Not Connected
Monitor 1 Output 1 & 2 Which is Left and Right  (You have to make the Monitor channel as you do in the input section Stereo 2 )

When you put an audio track in to record to wave file,  then it's setting Is as follows      Stereo 2          In
                                                                                                                                            Stereo            Out


Once that is done   hide the Halion Track folders.

On each mid track it is In   Not Connected
                        Out  Genos 2 workstation

This includes  The Sys Ex and Chord Data

This does not fail and works 100% for me.
This is how I make tracks in Genos and export to Cubase for editing.
It is just a pain having to do each track and record each track separately to wave  to mix the stems.
I always disolve the drums now into separate tracks and is more pain but i do not mind when it comes to the final bit.

All the best
John

[yogi62]

Hi John,

Thanks for the breakdown of your process. I must confess, I have never used the control room, although I have seen others swear by it.

I still want to be able to multirecord midi straight into cubase and so will stick with it for now. Recording individual tracks and cutting .wav files sounds labour intensive? I also want the recordings in midi so I can use the large number of vsti's I have available and therefor do not have to rely exclusively on the G2 sounds. The G2 strings are way to harsh and sharp for my liking, I prefer the old Roland analog sounds. (hence vsti's)

I managed to track down the reason for the tracks that gave no sound on playback, it was due to adjacent duplicated CC#7 entries transmitted by G2. Once I removed these, all tracks played back fine.

I think I am now pretty close to gettings things working as I want, only time will tell.

cheers
Mike

[Michael Trigoboff]

I use 'Box' but I am curious as to how you have used a text link in place of the html link?

Select some text in your message, and then tap the "Insert a link" icon at the top of the editing window.

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think it is best to Go with Michael for now as I am not up to in depth computer speak. I do find it much easier to play the chords into the Genos and export to Cubase.

Sorry Mike, but I think I am with John on this one. I am usually quite into pushing my technology to the absolute limit, but not when there is an easier way.

But I did spend a lot of time getting my old Focusrite 3rd gen 8i6 audio interface to be a slave to my new Focusrite 4th gen 16i16 audio interface via a S/PDIF connection, even though it's possible that I will never actually use that capability. 

[yogi62]

Michael,
Don't be sorry, if it works don't fix it

John,
Looking back to yur previous post (post14#) I would like to understand better the process you are working to.

If I quick record in G2 as a midifile and then import into Cubase, are you importing as a single track or is the midifile exploding into multitracks.
If multitracks what do you do about the way Cubase sets up the voices through Halion
How do you get the correct voices to match that from the G2 when recording to a .wav

[yogi62]

John,

Sorted out the import prefs so as to not open Halion. I'll see whether I can get this process to give me what I want.

The only thing at present is the quick record is using different channels to my template so I will need to see how best to check which instruments are recording on what channels for the styles. If ALL the styles use the same channels for each part respectively during recording, I can revise my template/G2 accordingly.

[yogi62]

John,

Finally sorted out a workable process for me.
I set the G2 midi menu to transmit and receive on 'ALL PARTS', then created a Cubase template to match the parts/channels (see link).

1. Use quick record on the G2
2. Set Cubase prefs not to use Halion
3. Import the midifile
4. Move the imported tracks to match the template channels
5. Delete unecessary tracks.

All plays back just fine and I change any of the tracks to use my vsti's
Finally, I can be bounce down to the two audio tracks if I want.

I am now officially a 'Happy Chappie'

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Many thanks to both you and Michael for your inputs

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi yogi.
Just hide Halion and set each track to your sound device and that is it.
Try and learn the Control room and you will be a happier bunny.
It is so Handy as you can load in certain vst tools for mixing and when converted to Wave file
you can monitor the Luf's when mixing to 18 Luf's and then use limiter at the end to bring up to around 12 Luf's
for music sites and 8  to 10 Luf's for your own Cd.
I now have got into mixing and mastering and Cubase can do It all Frequency EQ is worth a study and You tube with Dom explains loads of things like that.


All the best
John

[yogi62]

Thanks John,
I'll bear that in mind

[Michael Trigoboff]

Sorted out the import prefs so as to not open Halion.

That's always been a mysterious nuisance for me. I just went and found the setting and fixed it. Thanks!

[yogi62]

Glad it helped.

Soooooo many options in Cubase, more a Pandoras box!!

I'll take a look at the control room as John suggests, but given I don't really get too heavily involved with audio mixing, I'm not sure of how useful it will be, especially as it sounds quite complex to setup with routing etc.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi

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This will give you an insight how to use Control Room
It is quite easy to set up and is very useful

All it is in the Control section     Not connected  and underneath add Monitor 1 left and right

You can check the strength of the Genos sound input gain by recording each track to wave.
You can also adjust your headphone sound
Under CR you have monitor slots where you can put reference vst, Sonarworks if you want to use Monitor speakers in your room to be adjusted for room performance by your computer.
You can just bounce tracks to single wave file after without worrying about turning Control Room off.
There are lots of things you can do with Control Room.
As you say Cubase has a minefield of things to learn and it is fun.
Get to know Frequency EQ it is a monster EQ and more.
I see Michael also uses Spectral Layers  which is great for splitting up wave files to separate tracks for remixing or correcting a song.
I bet Michael is extracting the vocals from songs and selling Karaoke bundles and making a bomb on the black market!! "Sausages"!!!!



All the best
John

[lut112]

Yes Tiho doesn't work well. You can only record on one channel ALL/ chanel all/ from a template created by Tiho and after disslove it works more or less correctly

[yogi62]

John,

I downloaded quite a few control room videos off youtube yesterday and will take a look. I did this once before but was put off by the configuring required and what seemingly small benefit I would actually get from it based on my limited needs.

That said, I will take a look at your link - thanks for that:)

Like Michael, I also have Spectral Layers 11 and it has proved great for producing backing tracks from downloaded youtube audio which I can playback on the G2 whilst practicing. The vocal removal is pretty impressive!!

Lut112,
The templates I created (Genos 2 and Cubase), based on Tiho's, DOES multitrack recording but it has a few small niggles that need ironing out. Whilst I have 'benched' progressing it any further at present, I may well look at it again at sometime in the future. For now, quick midi recording on the G2 and importing into Cubase works perfectly well.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

So the conclusion so far is to record a style track on the Genos and export to Cubase 14.
From there you can record tracks from Genos.
The thing then is to get your User sounds Into the Script, which is buried on C drive.
I think you can also have a track recorded and start to play it for recording a wave file and press your user sound before it gets to the notes and it will take over the last sound . Then you have it in wave form.. A little short cut but it will revet to the older sound as it is in the Genos start information, otherwise it is dealing with letters and numbers and make a user script.
The quick way is straight record and edit the midi in Cubase or go step or go Chord loopy!! "Here's Johnny"!!!!!!!!

[yogi62]

Hi John,

For now I have settled on recording midi in the G2, export to Cubase, edit midi on cubase as necessary. Rout miditrack to vst (if a different high quality sampled sound is preferred), apply any basic effects and then export out to audio.

Given I am only a home hobby user of the G2/Cubase I am not looking for studio quality mixdowns so don't need to go too much into the complexities of stuido balancing, compressors etc, I just like to keep things simple. For that reason have also elected to stay clear of the control room as I simply do not need all the options it can provide, I'll leave that to the professionals (or at least someone who knows what they are doing )

One youtube video that has been a big help for routing miditracks/vstis this one :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVYZts9lj-4&ab_channel=RedDogMusic

[rphillipchuk]

Hi John,

For now I have settled on recording midi in the G2, export to Cubase, edit midi on cubase as necessary. Rout miditrack to vst (if a different high quality sampled sound is preferred), apply any basic effects and then export out to audio.

Given I am only a home hobby user of the G2/Cubase I am not looking for studio quality mixdowns so don't need to go too much into the complexities of stuido balancing, compressors etc, I just like to keep things simple. For that reason have also elected to stay clear of the control room as I simply do not need all the options it can provide, I'll leave that to the professionals (or at least someone who knows what they are doing )

One youtube video that has been a big help for routing miditracks/vstis this one :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVYZts9lj-4&ab_channel=RedDogMusic

.

That video is a keeper !!!!   Thanks

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Phil
That video is great for midi vst as all you do is render after which records to wave file or track in an instant.
The Genos 2 sounds and Style recording is a different story    

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

BINGO                    



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJ99rGQIAI

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Cubase and Genos  Giver Uppers Club


Study that video and all will become clear.

I always wondered why Midi channel 1 was information and when Tiho explains it in broken english. It was hard to take in
as you have to keep going over the videos like groundhog day. No offence to Tiho  it is not his fault. It is my fault for not understanding quickly.
I wondered why you have to put Genos on sync start and record and press play then nothing happened. Tiho says do not worry . just put on record and then play.
I was scratching my head about all of this.
The penny dropped as pressing  sync start, put on record and play which is the setting for  the Sys Ex which makes Genos  brain to work properly.
Second time you put in sync start and record off goes Cubase and now you can play the style and lead tracks right 1 ,2 and 3.. Just remember to change the record and play in midi on Genos when recording or listening.
You will see how to set the tracks up in this video    Workstation 1 in and Yamaha Genos out.

The big cruncher here is the preferences which you will see on the video.
With Yogi's help he was almost there  with the Transport/project syncronization

It is that part in the preferences that did it for me   have a go and you will be surprised it works if you comprehend the video from tiho above.

Now works every time> had about six goes and worked each time


All the best and have fun
John        

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Solved

[yogi62]

Hi John,

If you have indeed managed to get it to work 100% congratulations!!

I would be keen to see how you have set up the G2 and Cubase, any chance you could upload your G2 pref files and your Cubase template (similar to the ones I posted) so I can have a look at what you have done?

Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Yogi

I have put it together on Box as i do not know how to load on this site.
The reason the OFF is OFF is because you do not want the instruments set to play  information to change or interfere.
So it keeps your right 1-2-3 intact.
I will have a look at adding a left track also later and pads.

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Look for Pandora's Box


All the best
John

[yogi62]

Hi John,

Thanks for the upload. As you say, you cannot upload directly to this site, using BOX is the way to go.

I have downloaded all the files and printed out your instructions. I'll take a look at later today and see how things go. In regards to the Cubase template, I'm not sure how the control room (which I don't use) may have any part to play in my process - we'll see.

One question - when you record into Cubase what happens if you playback when you have a different style loaded on the G2? The reason I ask is because as far as I am aware teh G2 does not send any program change messages when it plays, only when it experiences any changes eg: style, part, voice etc.

I suspect that you have to have the original style that you record set on teh G2 in order for the Cubase playback to function correctly. Alternatively the voices used in the style will need to be programmed into the midi tracks within Cubase to ensure the correct sound are played back IF a different style is set on the G2.

As a suggestion, perhaps you could save the G2 prefs for record on off to a usb stick and then included them in your BOX upload, saves anyone having to go through and make all the various adjustments manually. It's easy then to import the prefs via the midi option.

I'll let you know how I get on - many thanks

Upate:
John, I read your instructions but was left a little confused. Can you please upload your G2 record/play preference settings to BOX

Thanks

 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If you do not use control room just have the left and right outs.
The control room is great for monitoring things like Luf's  so you know where you are . As I said -18 Luf's is the sweetspot for mixing.
You can see what I use in the Control room and those vst's always stay there whether you save or not until you add or subtract a Vst.
There is quite a few things you can do in the Control room and is worth a massive look.
I use it for Luf's, monitoring room correction with Sonarworks as i have a square room of death, Useful for A+ B referencing a track against your recording Tone balancing,EQ,Compression and limiting.
This is where you make your own chain.
Also now you can mix down to single wave without disengaging the Control room.