Going over a retro post

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Sometime back I was going on about recording gain on Genos / Now Genos 2.

I found out that using the Compressor gain In the master section actually got the recording level in Cubase up to 18Luf's which is the sweet spot for mixing in Cubase 14.  The thing is does this compressor work as a compressor or a gain tool in reality or does it squeeze the recording.
I once rang Yamaha UK and the tech guy said he had exported the midi file  Into the Genos flat no compression from Genos and uses a plugin in IK multimedia' Mixbox. So obviously it has a gain control. At that time he said he could not remember which one it was called.

Now, Eileen who is a very wise Genos player said go flat, no compression and all sliders max 127 which i did not understand at the time.
So i think now that you mix a song on the Genos at a good slider level, shove them all up to max when exporting to Cubase.
This i will now have to try as this could push the gain up somewhat. I always make sure that the song level in the mixer is max also before exporting.
The Genos does seem to struggle with output gain and if you put the gain up too much in Cubase you will get a noise floor which Cubase Wavlab can sort out or Izotope RX elements can do.

What is the strongest gain output level achieved on Genos 2 for recording in Cubase 14 ??  Any Takers??
all the Best
John


Yo get none of this trouble with VST

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Nobody wants to answer this.
The retro post came out with recording wave files and gain from Genos and then it went to spdf's somehow and my question never ever got answered.

The thing is when you record in the sequencer on Genos 2 and export that file into Cubase 14 you have to raise the the gains in Cubase up quite a bit  to get to anywhere near 18 Luf's for mixing at the Gain stage point.
This leaves a nasty little noise floor which can be eliminated with an Izotope plugin.But it is then not a clean recording.
I tried just recording to wave once to find out what the output gain levels from the Genos 2 was and just the raw flat recording, no compressor reached only 29 to 40 luf's and you have to increase Cubase gain well over 10 db.
This is not an ideal gain level to start with from the Genos but we have to live with it unless someone can get the Genos MIDI RECORDING at least somewhere near 20 to 18 LUF's to start mixing.

All the Best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

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We received the following enquiry:
Subject: Midi Gain level for recording in Cubase 14
Contents:
Hi

I cannot find an answer directly about this .
When I export a song from Genos 2 sequencer the EQ is flat and Compressor turned off ready for editing and recording to wave files on each track in Cubase 14.
I also dissolve the Drums to multiple tracks to work on them.
Once i am ready to record the midi from the Genos 2 and record, i find the tracks record very low at -30/40 Luf's.
The ideal Luf's for mixing is -18 Luf's
When I gain stage and bring all tracks to 18 Luf's I get a noise floor from Focusrite 4i4 4th generation.
Not all tracks need to be 18Luf's and I know that because of certain instruments.
It gets annoying when things like a sax and guitar is -30 Luf's after recording from the Genos 2 engine. Not totally a clean recording.
I have to use something like Izotope RX to get rid of the noise floor.
My big question is---
What is the best gain that you can achieve from Genos 2 and how do I achieve It.

I would be grateful to know from the Genos 2 experts to tell me how they achieve great recording levels from Genos 2 so you get a nice clean recording on each track in Cubase 14. I can never get a straight answer to this.
I have even tried the Forums on Cubase 14 and i get no answers and I think it is because Genos 2 owners are not as important as the VST pro's. IMO>
Saying that, I have no problems using VST's and gain control , but the Genos 2 seems to be lacking In a great recording levels to record to wave tracks In Cubase 14 or other versions being 12 and 13.
Sorry for being a little long winded here but I do want to get to the bottom of this and any help would be appreciated.

All the Best
John Sammons Guets are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login

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[DrakeM]

You could just use this free site to Master your WAV files. It does it all in about 30 seconds.

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About 2 years ago I watched a YouTube video where the guy compared a track, he mixed himself and spent a lot of time on, with what the online Bandlab came up with. He then chopped both tracks into sections and labeled them A and B. You could then listen to each and decide which was BETTER, the Bandlab version or his professionally done version.

It was easy to see that it was not worth my time to use anything other than the Bandlab result.

Sorry I did not bookmark the video and looked for the guy's video again this morning but no luck. He has hundred of music industry videos posted. Next time I see one of his videos I will find it and bookmark it.

You ought to try it and compare for yourself.

Regards
Drake

 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Drake
I appreciate what you are saying but it is not what i am talking about

It is for me about the Genos Gain level when recording the Genos from Cubase 14.
When recording to wave file from a flat no compressed track that was midi recorded on the Genos 2
you get a low recording of about -30 to -35 LUF's (Loudness units for ear perception).
This being when recording a wave file from midi information in Cubase it sends the information to the Genos to fire up the sound and Genos then responds back with a printed recorded wave file.
When you gain stage and level up to -18 Luf's which is ideal mix level it can cause a noise floor which you have to deal with with the likes of Izotope RX. This is not a totally clean recording.
If you have to keep doing this from a digital Instrument it is not really on. You would expect a noise floor if recording a vocal or people in a railway Guets are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login!!   or field recording.
It would be great If Yamaha could up the Pre-Gain for Genos 2 to get a decent wave recording level from Cubase , -18Luf's  or thereabouts without having to fiddle about.


All the best
John

[maartenb]

It is for me about the Genos Gain level when recording the Genos from Cubase 14.

Do you record the audio through USB or Line Out?


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

I record from Cubase 14 for example an imported midi file which I recorded on Genos 2 and I set up for recording each track and it goes through usb and Focusrite 4i4 and print to wave.
When communicating with midi and the Computer in Cubase14 You do not need the Focusrite 4i4 only for recording to wave track where the is another usb lead to computer and that is sorted out with the ins and outs in Cubase14 which works a treat. It is all digital.

The thing is Maarten when the track is a wave file it is easy put gain up through gain staging and because of the low Pre-gain from the Genos 2 it can leave a noise floor.
I would like the Genos Gain to go up to around 18 to 24 Luf's not 30 to 40's. I want Cubase 14 to get a decent level for mixing and not having to use Izotope RX to cleanup noise floors.
You can get to 18luf's if you switch on the Genos 2 Compressor .
Is the Genos 2 Compressor a volume gain knob or a Compressor which may sqeeze the recording to death. I have heard people say it is not really a Compressor only a glorified gain virtual knob.
I would agree that it pumps up the volume and the sound is alright but louder. Normally a Compressor would squash a recording if too much is put on and it should really be used for taming peaks.
I have tried that and you have to put it up to 89 to get to18 Luf's which is the sweet spot for recording.
I would like to know how to get Genos 2 up to a decent level without noise floors and nobody has really answered that question yet.
You can turn to wave in Genos but I do not want to work that way as lots of sounds in the Genos has unwanted
Resonances and sounds also can mask each other.



All the best
John

[maartenb]

To make sure I understand you:

• The MIDI data is going from the computer through an USB cable to the Genos2
• The Genos2 "transforms" (plays) the MIDI data to audio data
  
• The audio data is going from the Genos2 through an USB cable to the computer

I don't understand what the Focusrite is doing in this process. According to this picture, there is no USB audio in on the 4i4:




Your problem seems to be that the USB audio out of the G2 is too soft in volume, meaning it doesn't use the full 16 or 24 bit space it can use.

Is my understanding correct?


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

From Cubase I record Audio from midi on each track from imported song from Genos 2.

So the Information is sent to the Genos and then aux out into the Focusrite 4i4 and out again via USB which is on back of the 4i4 c  connection into Cubase.
From what I gather is that people have been using the compressor to up the gain for recording.
A compressor is supposed to tame the peaks of a wave file  for constant level. Also for increasing ear perception loudness at same volume.
Does the Genos compressor act like a real compressor or is it a fancy gain knob?
The only thing that I can think of is that the compressor is a gain knob with the compression turned down on the Genos.
If so that would solve the problem.


Ps The Scarlett 4i4 has a single USB 2.0 Type C port

All the best
John