Keyboard can not read thumb drive

[ticktock]

Hi everyone,
Last night, my s970 suddenly couldn't read the thumb drive. I did a soft reset (turn power on while holding the highest "C") but it didn't work.
Please tell me what I should do next. Thanks,
Ted

[Bill]

You should check that the USB Drive still works on the computer. It may have become corrupted or just died.

Bill

[ticktock]

Yes, it works on PC.

[Michael Trigoboff]

Try reformatting it on the PC. Make sure to specify FAT32.

[Bill]

If you have another USB Stick, put some KB files on it and try it.

Bill

[ticktock]

Thanks everyone.
I tried different names: SanDisk 64gb, SanDisk 16gb, Patriot 8gb, Pny 16gb. All failed.
I picked one thumb drive, that I got it free from a technical conference as a commercial gift without name on it and about 2gb, and put in. Surprisingly, my s970 did recognize it??
Ted

[Amwilburn]

It sounds like a current draw issue (if the current draw of the thumbrive/external exceeds about 700ma, instruments can't read them). Additionally, if they're NTFS instead of Fat32 (as Michael has already pointed out) they also won't work.

The size isn't a limitation; my s970 can read 256gb. However, my old Sandisk 256gb used less current than my current Lexar, so my CVP309 *cannot* read the Lexar, even though it can read the old Sandisk.

the smaller sizes usually draw less current (which is why it makes sense your 2gb works), but again, that's not consistent. But I'd try a 4gb/8GB/16/32gB Sony, Kingston, and older (USB2.1 or 3.0 read speeds) Sandisks & Lexars.

Mark

[ticktock]

Thanks Mark, I never thought about the current.
I always use KB to format the thumb drives.
The thing that bothers me is that the Sandisk 64gb was recognized before. I formatted it on KB (for future use) but never used it. Now the KB didn't see it when I plugged it in.
It seems all thumb drives which have been used with my KB are failed. The ones that never been used then some work some don't.
I will try the old drives, but I'm concerned about the KB's instability.
Thanks, Ted

[pedro_pedroc]

Hello.

As already said, the problem may be the file system. It must have a fat32 file system. Normally, windows uses NTFS and Mac uses APFS — they won't be recognized on Yamaha keyboards.

Size is not a problem. The file system is.

Best wishes.
Pedro

[overover]

If I understood Ted (ticktock) correctly, his USB sticks used to work on the S970, but now only work on the PC.

In fact, newer, larger USB sticks usually have "exFAT" ex works (which Yamaha keyboards cannot do anything with). However, Ted said he basically formats his sticks on the keyboard. Therefore I think the file format cannot be the cause of the error.

I suspect a defect of the USB-to-device socket or the internal USB circuit. In response to Ted's PM request, I sent him a link to the S970 Service Manual (available here on Psrtutorial) and gave him the necessary information about running the internal Test Program and the test routines to check the USB function.


Best regards,
Chris

[ticktock]

Hi Chris,
You're correct about this issue: the USB stick has been used with KB for many years but now is not recognized by the same KB (but it's still work with PC).
I followed Chris instructions and the Service Manual (page 39):
- Test No. 060 "USB to Device/ Host check": OK.
- Test No. 061 " USB Storage Device check": Tested with several sticks, some showed "OK", others showed "No Device".
At this point, I believe there is an issue with the internal system. Maybe it's time to upgrade to Genos2.
Thanks everyone for your help. What a great forum.
Ted,

[pedro_pedroc]

When I say "size it's not a problem", I mean the size of the thumb drive (8, 16, 64 or more GB).
The FAT file system has a limitation of 4GB per file. ExFAT doesn't have this problem.

But 4GB per file is enough for everything on the keyboard.

Regards
Pedro

[ticktock]

Hi Pedro,
You're right. 4gb is a lot.
I'm thinking about saving only a handful of styles, rgt, pad, etc... in USR and forget about USB.
Thanks, Ted.

[Toril S]

Hello ticktock! I had the same problem with my S970. Suddenly the sticks that formerly worked just stopped working, but when I put them on my PC all the files were there. Never found out what the problem was, for the keyboard broke down due to another issue, and was replaced with an S975.

[ticktock]

Hi Toril,
You got lucky with the s975. Because it happens suddenly without warning, what I'm afraid most is that it occurs right before the playing in front of the audience.
Ted.

[Amwilburn]

When I say "size it's not a problem", I mean the size of the thumb drive (8, 16, 64 or more GB).
The FAT file system has a limitation of 4GB per file. ExFAT doesn't have this problem.

But 4GB per file is enough for everything on the keyboard.

Regards
Pedro

You would think, but we've found the larger the USB capactiy, often the more current it draws. Not always (I've had a working 256GB on my CVP309, but when the Sandisk started to die, I tried buying another during Black Friday weekend; Amazon sold out and apologized and asked me to try another. So I bought a Lexar, but that draws too much current, so my cvp309 can't read it (it had a lower allowable current draw, never figured out what the actual number was because all the hard drive experiments were at work. luckily my s970 still can).

In other words, if you have the same usb stick (same model and brand) and one of them doesn't work on your instrument, you can try a smaller one, and odds are good that it will work. I only know the T2's external drive current draw exactly because we went through about 80 HDD's for customers and our display units, and underneath each HDD (not on the package, because it's different for each individual one) it showed the current draw. And anything 750ma and over simply wouldn't read when we plugged into T2, T3, or whatever the current PSR was at the time (I think it was s910). And same thing I discovered on the sx600 and DGX670: the current draw of my old Sandisk 256 worked on all keyboards except those 2, those 2 must've had a lower current draw. So I purchased a separate 32gb Kingston just to be able to transfer files on those. Low enough current draw that *that* Kingston works on every Yamaha I have.


https://www.anandtech.com/show/10163/usb-flash-drives-power-consumption-measurement-using-plugables-usbctkey

SSD's and USB flash drives use NAND flash, which you should *never* ever fill completely (the fragmentation slows down the performance dramatically), so most things you can look up that affect SSD performance also affect USB flash drives.

Mark

[Bill]

SSD's and USB flash drives use NAND flash, which you should *never* ever fill completely (the fragmentation slows down the performance dramatically), so most things you can look up that affect SSD performance also affect USB flash drives.

Mark

Hi Mark

I always thought that SSD's and USB Drives did not fragment.

Bill

[Amwilburn]

Hi Mark

I always thought that SSD's and USB Drives did not fragment.

Bill

Well sort of (and you're kind of right): SSD's *do* fragment, but they don't slow down because of that.  It's the partially filled sectors that don't get consolidated. SSD's and USB drives *do* fragment, but they're sort of designed to (otherwise the number of writes would be used up early)

And you shouldn't defrag an ssd as it shortens its lifespan!


https://www.howtogeek.com/855293/should-you-defrag-your-ssd/#:~:text=Defragmentation%20is%20not%20recommended%20for%20SSDs%20because%20it,these%20cycles%2C%20resulting%20in%20reduced%20performance%20over%20time.


It's when SSD's fill up and the partially written sector fragments eat up all the empty space that they slow to a crawl
https://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/#:~:text=Fill%20your%20solid-state%20drive%20to%20near-capacity%20and%20its,you%20should%20never%20do%20with%20a%20solid-state%20drive.


But for USB flash drives, both the fragmentation and rewrites shorten their life spans. My last 256GB Sandisk, I didn't erase anything, or defrag, or use up more than 50% of it because I wanted it to last as long as possible. It became unstable after only 2 years (right on schedule for a Sandisk). I've had Kingstons last longer, but the last couple out of the box drew too much current and were unusable with Yamaha instruments.

https://techlogie.com/why-is-my-usb-flash-drive-so-slow/

Mark