Arranger keyboards after the old folks are gone

[rattley]

Greetings!!

You know your getting old when you choose the 20sDanceSchlager style on your Genos2 and it isn't for a Charleston!!!  -charley

[Michael Trigoboff]

My theory of why we like the music that we do:

As we pass through puberty, our music sensors snap open. They stay open for about 20 years, and then they snap shut.

For me, that was late 1950s thru around 1980 — obviously the period when the best music ever was created! 

[wersiplayer]

You are thinking of our region on the globe but other regions have other customs. One fact. Why is europe excluded of buying yamaha organs? I know many who would like to have a, lets say, stagea. Why? Because the needs and expectations are different between people around the world. For yamaha there is not enough interest to build up a network for organs in europe. The even make different onboard samples and styles to coop with the needs in different regions. So, as already said, there wil always be a need for arangers or easy to use instruments in future. With the modern technology it is no big deal to play in the needs at a certain time. Sinds many times korg has the posibility to totaly change the os and sounds of there keyboards, even the onboard sounds and styles. They wil always invent posibilities to create the need to buy instruments and other stuf. And in the event that it ends? Would not be our concern because we wil be no more there.

[Lefty]

As I'm reading this and many other threads, I have to wonder why when we reach a certain age, we feel the need to disrespect new/modern music. I remember the response of 'adults' to the Beatles when they came over to the U.S. on tour.  "That isn't music"  "It's just noise"  "It's satan's music". Those were things I remember being said.  Now the Beatles are elevator music.  Go Figure....

I suspect it's always been this way.  When you look at the many periods in classical music, (like Baroque, Romantic, Modern Classical) I'll bet as they moved between periods, the oldsters were yelling "That's NOT music!!!". 

Best Regards,
  Craig

P.S.  A challenge.  Listen to  'Havana' by Camila Cabello.  Havana is a pop/salsa song 6 or 7 years old, so is reasonably modern. It is just 3 chords, as one poster derided. Tell me this song doesn't have the 3 legs of music, rhythm, harmony, and melody.  Hummable, and danceable.  The singing does not sound like a screeching cat. I chose this song to challenge folks with because it has one verse that is rap.

In my opinion, this is certainly music, in fact, great music.  Just not OUR music.  Understand that rap/hiphop is just one genre of music.  In our era we had Acid Rock, Heavy Metal, etc.  Not everyone likes everything, and not all of it survives long.

When the folks who were born in 2001 are in their 70's, this is what they'll play, not Abba tunes.  What will they play it on?  I have no idea.

[BogdanH]

...
When the folks who were born in 2001 are in their 70's, this is what they'll play, not Abba tunes.
...

-I'm not sure that's true. That way of thinking comes from music that you like.. because you have grown with particular music genre at certain period of time.

There is wider picture which Mike already mentioned: as we get older, our music preferences change -and that's especially true for music lovers (what musicians are).

When I was teenager (early 70's), we were partying on Suzy Quatro, Alvin Stardust, T.Rex, The Sweeet, etc. But as I got older, I wanted more from music and so I started listening Pink Floyd, David Bowie, etc. And after a while, i discovered blues and classical music. You see the pattern? -the older I was, the older music I started to enjoy.
And similar happened to some of my friends -except to those who were stuck in 70's 

It was mentioned here: if we can't humm (or whistle) the melody, then it's **** (you fill-in) music -or at least not suitable for entertainigg other people (which I kinda agree on).

But there's another thing that we forget: younger (even mid-age) generation doesn't know how to dance! They jump and stretch along some electronic pop music, but that's all there is. If we (keyboard player) would like to entertain them, then we better forget beautiful rhythm of latin music and it can happen that even waltz is too much.
Those of you, who play for elder communities sure know that older people start dancing imediatelly if music is right (entertainment music is dance music) -because they learned basic dancing in their youth.
What I'm saying is, how to entertain people who are embarrassed to dance? That's the challenge that future keyboard player will have.

Hmm... maybe I'm off-topic... 
Bogdan

[andyg]

Why is europe excluded of buying yamaha organs?

Basically one reason. Economics.

I've had this discussion a few times up at Yamaha HQ, and indeed with Kawai back in the day. 1) The market for new organs in the UK and, to a slightly lesser extent, Continental Europe, is tiny. They might sell a few dozen of each model and that may well be optimistic. That brings us to 2) EU electronics regulations would require a separate production line to be set up and, given the low number of units required, the costs of that would outweigh their profit.

There are a couple of other reasons like the need to revoice  and re-spec instruments for 'western' ears and preferences, but to be honest, I think that's less of an issue than it once was.

It's not just Europe, of course. Yamaha's domestic and Asian markets are the only really viable ones left, being rather different to elsewhere in the world, including the USA, for example. And colleagues have told me that even those 'home' markets are very tough these days.

Yamaha are very pragmatic about Tarotrade supplying D-Deck and Stagea models, but obviously it's not officially supported with any back-up.

[Lefty]

Lefty wrote: "When the folks who were born in 2001 are in their 70's, this is what they'll play, not Abba tunes."

-I'm not sure that's true. That way of thinking comes from music that you like.. because you have grown with particular music genre at certain period of time.

Hi Bogdan, that is exactly my point.  My age group here in Arizona play and listen to the music from our youth.  Creedence, Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Abba, Almond Bros., etc. The younger generations coming after us won't be different. They will listen to and play the tunes they grew up with.

So in 2074, when BillyBob is 73, he probably won't be listening to the Beatles, or the Stones, he'll be playing and listening to Camilla playing "Havana". And he'll be saying, "The crap the kids listen to today ain't music"!!!!   

Respectfully,
   Craig

[BogdanH]

hi Craig,
I know what you mean.. what I was saying is, that now (being older) I listen to music that I never listened in my youth. And similar will probably happen to BillyBob. I don't say that everyone at age above 80 will start listening classical music only 

We had good and bad music in past and the same is true today. So why we say "nowadays music is not music"? Because there's a difference if music/song is composed or manufactured. And sadly, nowadays majority of music is manufactured.. tomorrow maybe it will be "generated" (by AI)... But one is for sure:  bad music is quickly forgotten.

Greetings,
Bogdan

[J. Larry]

I play six retirement homes on a weekly, rotational basis.  Paying close attention to their requests, it's clear to me what they like, prefer, etc..  Elvis, of course, Jerry Lee, Johnny Cash, Fats Domino, Beatles, James Taylor, Carole King, Stevie Wonder, Billy Joel, CCR, Jim Croce, John Denver, Bob Dylan and others.  Also, a healthy dose of Patsy Cline, George Jones, Waylon, Willie, and Merle.  Tunes from those artists could easily cover a gig for the current ages of retired persons in my area.  This music era is easily hummable and well-suited to the styles in my arranger.  I'm glad to be a part of that generation.   

[mikf]

I was in my forties, even fifties not my youth, when I discovered Billie Joel. The thing is that good music from yesteryear survives, but more good music comes along and adds to it. Meanwhile the junk, and even hits that can't be easily hummed get forgotten.
It so happens that the 60s were rich in the kind of songs that are memorable, easy to sing along, great to dance to.  So of course they are requested. Similarly the 30s and 40s are rich in the kind music that is great for jazz players, solo cabaret artists and easy listening. Go along to right kind of gig and these will pop up regardless of the age of the musicians or attendees. But you might also get requests for songs from the Lion King, or Lloyd Weber, or Maria Carey, good playable music with a much more recent pedigree.
But I'll bet you don't get many requests for bands of the same era like The Grateful Dead, Black Sabbath.,  or  long forgotten junk like 'Pied Purple People Eater', or 'Looking for Henry Lee'.  You see it's not just about when,....  it's what fits the occasion, what is easily remembered, sung along, danced to.
When the current 20 year olds move into care homes, I'm not sure what they will be requesting, but I can guarantee it won't be EDM or hip hop. I know when my 50 year old children get into their later years they will still be requesting a lot of the great songs by Lennon McCartney, Neil Diamond, Neil Sedaka....all from my generation, not theirs.
You don't just learn taste in music from what you listen to as a teen, you also get it from what your parents, grandparents are listening to. Sometimes you even get it from what your children are listening to....what's not to like about Beyoncé, Alicia Keys, Madonna.......
Mike

[Toril S]

Dang! I am old! This list suits me perfectly😀😀😀

[Michael Trigoboff]

But I'll bet you don't get many requests for bands of the same era like The Grateful Dead, Black Sabbath.,  or  long forgotten junk like 'Pied Purple People Eater', or 'Looking for Henry Lee'.

If I end up in a nursing home, they are going to get a lot of requests for the Grateful Dead. 

[BogdanH]

Hahahha.. good one Michael 

[Lefty]

hi Craig,
I know what you mean.. what I was saying is, that now (being older) I listen to music that I never listened in my youth. And similar will probably happen to BillyBob. I don't say that everyone at age above 80 will start listening Classical music only 

Poor BillyBob.  Relegated to listening to only Classical.....

Best Regards,
   Craig

[Divemaster]

 I'm taking my arrangers with me when I go. 

[EileenL]

I will listen to anything that has a nice melody with a nice chord progression Dose not matter what year or who did it. These are the songs that tend to last and not the thump thump ones with almost obscene lyrics.

[EB5AGV]

I will listen to anything that has a nice melody with a nice chord pression. Dose not matter what year or who did it. These are the songs that tend to last and not the thump thump ones with almost obscene lyrics.

Chord "pression"?. That is a new one for me!.Poor chords, they are sometimes used and abused!

Did you mean "progression" by any chance? 

[EileenL]

Slip of the fingers. Now edited.

[soundphase]

I can pretty well guarantee that the 70 year olds of the future will not be playing hip hop when they get to old age, they will be playing Andrew Lloyd Webber, Jerome Kern, Cole Porter, great songs of the 50s and 60s  ...and whatever real composers come along meantime, ....same as us.

I 300% disagree

As some previous members said, there are good and bad music/songs in all styles from all periods. And only these good ones remain known several years later.

Perhaps there are more and more music (300 years ago, there were not a lot of composers, today quite everyone can use a computer to make some composition). So there are, in number, more and more bad songs.

What seems to be "generic", is the fact that old people are more interested by music that were regularly played during their own young years (nostalgia)

Currently it's 80s (and the best ones from previous periods). There are bad 80's music and good ones ...

In ten years, it will be 90s (and the best ones from all previous periods) and so on....

Best songs from Rap, hip hop, waltz, tango, bossa-nova, rock'n roll, new wave, and techno will still be heard in the future.

[J. Larry]

Agree with Eileen on melody and chord progression.  On any unfamiliar song, that's what I key-in on.  I focus on the bass line first.  That helps in figuring out the progression, if I want to learn the tune.

[chesterkins]

Actually if you review the styles in the Genos2 you can see the demographics being reflected already
Virtually NO new 'Dance' styles
BUT a big emphasis on the 1980's  That's 40 years ago
You can be sure Yamaha know their market
Collecting stats from all over the world   They know the age of their @Arranger customer base   and create styles accordingly

[soundphase]

Agree with Eileen on melody and chord progression.  On any unfamiliar song, that's what I key-in on.  I focus on the bass line first.  That helps in figuring out the progression, if I want to learn the tune.

There is no real melody on 7 nation army from white stripes.... Kashmir Led Zeppelin.... Interest is elsewhere. More the rhythm and global feeling....

BUT a big emphasis on the 1980's  That's 40 years ago

Yes arranger market is globally for 50 and over. That does not mean it is sticked to people who listen to music from 1920 to 1969. It evolves.

[travlin-easy]

DITTO!

[Toril S]

Arrangers will be around for many years to come! Easy to play instruments are getting popular. Now we have wind synths, autoharps and keytars. "Real musicians" can frown all they want and call such instruments toys, but the fact is that a lot more people are getting into music and having fun with it. And that is the real purpose of music. To be creative is to get something good out of your life. The first time I sat down and played 4 keys on the arranger and sounded like a whole orchestra was a magic moment. Long Live The Autocomp Keyboards 

[Keystar]

I'm a singer/guitarist converted to a singer/arranger keyboardist. It only took me less than a year with an arranger to reach the same level as a guitarist that  took me more than 10 years to reach.

I have had no piano training whatsoever but my experience with the guitar and music theory have helped me to learn how to use left hand chord/right hand melody to accompany my singing with the auto accompaniment feature.

As a solo singer/guitarist I have to add various pedals and drum machines to make the sound fuller but the arranger just add that full band effect more.

I'm sure there are and will be many more guitarists who will discover the magic of an arranger and that'll add many more new blood to the arranger world of music.

[Divemaster]

Arrangers will be around for many years to come! Easy to play instruments are getting popular. Now we have wind synths, autoharps and keytars. "Real musicians" can frown all they want and call such instruments toys, but the fact is that a lot more people are getting into music and having fun with it. And that is the real purpose of music. To be creative is to get something good out of your life. The first time I sat down and played 4 keys on the arranger and sounded like a whole orchestra was a magic moment. Long Live The Autocomp Keyboards 

Thank You Toril and Keystar!

Your posts were like a huge breath of fresh air rushing through all the forums this morning.

So many posts recently, dissecting every possible feature of keyboards. So many criticisms of, and moans about Yamaha, as to what they could, and should have done.

I was starting to wonder if anybody actually sat down and PLAYED their keyboards.

Whatever your age, playing the instrument is surely the greatest pleasure for you and those who hear you play. I think so anyway.

Arrangers, and the older players are here to stay.... Believe it!

Keith

[EileenL]

I believe it Keith,
  I am coming up to 88 years and bye my keyboards to play. I really get sick and tired of all the moaning about what Yamaha should and should not do. I notice they never post songs so we can hear them playing.

[DrakeM]

Well, I believe Yamaha needs to put out their next SX 61 key machine ASAP, please.

My PSR-S950 needs a rest. I just replaced the power pack and my #8 Registration button is on the blink. I have already had my pitch wheel replaced about 4 years ago. If you are really playing your keyboard, in about ten years it's worn out.

I have been spending even more time on the keyboard since the G2 styles came out. I have converted over 150 of them so far. I still have about 70 more left to go. I have been putting this S950 keyboard of mine to doing some serious work lately. 

[Gunnar Jonny]

  I am coming up to 88 years and bye my keyboards to play. I really get sick and tired of all the moaning about what Yamaha should and should not do. I notice they never post songs so we can hear them playing.

Well, the very best medicine and / or method to avoid get sick of others posts, is not to read them. 
If this 'moaning' and users wishes and remarks about the products encourage Yamaha to do develope, make new features, changes or / and bugfixes, it's worth every single word!
When it comes to publish recordings or songs, I was in fact not aware of that is a kind of criteria to be hold before anyones posts get accepted as valued in debates. 

If we're 88 or 98 and happy with things as they are, it's great. But it also should be quite OK if we have some whises and / or complaints as well. 

[Gunnar Jonny]

Arrangers, and the older players are here to stay.... Believe it!

Yes, even older arrangers seem to work well, but all that sudden they get outdated and faulty, and both electronics or other parts, also service providers seems to be hard to find.
The question is how long developements and pruduction of new arrangers as we know it will carry on. It's first and foremost about number of sales and companies income.
Another question is if those younger ones who grow up to be the 'old ones' within some years is as many that the sales will make it profitable to carry on, or if new technology and possibilities has taken completely over. 
Those of us that's the old ones now will never get to know.
But, personally I'm pretty sure that 'old faschion' acustic instruments such as piano, guitars, violins, brass, drums and whatever will keep the music alive as long as there is people in the world.