Has anyone tried MULTITRACKING using the AUDIO RECORDER?

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Has anyone tried MULTITRACKING using the AUDIO RECORDER?

Hugh

[Fred Smith]

Has anyone tried MULTITRACKING using the AUDIO RECORDER?

Hugh

If, by Multitracking, you mean 2 tracks -- one for the instrument, one for the voice, yes, I've tried it.

Cheers,
Fred

[pedro_pedroc]

Yes, I tried. And yes, it's what Fred said - one for instrument and other for voice.

Pedro

[mikf]

I would think everyone who ever recorded a vocal has done that, so I am not sure this is what he meant. But if he meant multi tracking the backing or an instrumental using the audio recording on the keyboard I don't think that is realistic. You would have to use external recording devices. But most arranger players would not do that anyway, you multitrack using midi on the keyboard because it is much easier to edit. Then convert the finished midi to audio.
Mike

[Del]

Hi Hugh
Yes I have multitracked using audio recorder, on my YouTube channel Carol of the bells is one, I know him so well, and Blue Christmas is another and all were quite easy to do on the tyros 5, I have not tried multi traciking in the midi recorder as yet

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Mike .. you've got it in a nutshell (I am not a 'singer').

But if he meant multi tracking the backing or an instrumental using the audio recording on the keyboard I don't think that is realistic. You would have to use external recording devices. But most would not do that anyway, you multitrack using midi on the keyboard because it is much easier to edit. Then convert the finished midi to audio.

That is exactly what I wanted to do .. use the AUDIO RECORDER to 'add' some instrumental counter melodies to some WAV files of songs I recorded a while ago .. but it is only as I have been listening to them that I have thought of some extra phrases I can add into the music to make it more satisfying for me to listen to.  I don't have a MIDI recording as I recorded the songs directly to audio (WAV) in the first place.

Del .. so glad I am not the only one who has gone down the AUDIO road to MULTITRACK. 

Yes I have multitracked using audio recorder, on my YouTube channel Carol of the bells is one, I know him so well, and Blue Christmas is another and all were quite easy to do on the tyros 5, I have not tried multi tracking in the midi recorder as yet.

I have listened to all three of your recordings on YouTube and that is exactly what I was on about.  Very impressed with how you have added extra musical interludes to your tracks afterwards by MULTITRACKING.  I too have not gone down the road of using a MIDI recording to do this.

Recently, I have been using MULTI PADS to add some extra notes into what I have been playing, and you may have seen (heard) the MULTI PAD I did to give a decent BASS line to Michael Row The Boat Ashore.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,67545.0.html

What I was wondering now is if I could use the AUDIO RECORDER to 'add a bass part' afterwards to Michael Row The Boat Ashore ie. to MULTITRACK it. I would have to start by recording my piece with no bass if the objective is to add a bass part afterwards.  So I have done this using the AUDIO RECORDER, as that is how I am going to proceed with this project.  Also, as I have a musical friend (Ron NTL) who played an electric bass in a band when he was (much) younger, I wanted to know what he would have played as a bass player (I am not a bass player .. although I used to sing BASS in a choir).

Below are my thoughts on this, and how I have set about using the AUDIO RECORDER rather than a MIDI recording to do all this.

[Hugh Tyros 4]

MULTITRACKING using the AUDIO RECORDER

Why use the AUDIO RECORDER for MULTITRACKING when you can multitrack with the MIDI RECORDER?  You may well ask!  If I was just going to multitrack something on my Tyros 4 .. yes .. I could record my piece using the Midi Recorder and then add more tracks to it.

But what if ...

I already have an audio recording and want to add something into it?  Or, I want to collaborate with another musician and between us come up with some multitracking?  No point sending him a MID file to play on his keyboard as a MIDIFILE will only come up with the right sounds if it is played back on the keyboard it was created in.  An AUDIO FILE (MP3 or WAV file) on the other hand reproduces the 'true sound' of the original recording.  Although, agreed, you can't do much with it .. unless you have a Yamaha keyboard!

In this topic I want to take another look at something I have done before .. creating a BASS PART for Michael Row The Boat Ashore.  Previously, I had done this with a MULTIPAD.  This time the BASS will be MULTITRACKED using the AUDIO RECORDER. I shall be sending Ron a WAV file and asking him to put in a BASS PART.  A WAV file because Ron has a Tyros 3, and I have a Tyros 4, neither of which will handle MP3s (although both keyboards will play them).

As we are going to be creating a BASS LINE, I have to record the song with no bass part.  I have put this up as a WAV file on audio.com, and you can listen to it and download it from here (Ron .. or anyone who wants to have a go at doing this).  You get the DOWNLOAD option by clicking on those three little dots at the end, on the right.

https://audio.com/hugh-ar/audio/hugh-s-band-no-bass

I have called my track Hugh's Band NO BASS.wav.  When you click the DOWNLOAD ARROW, if you are given the option, choose to download as a WAV file (22.3MB).  If there is no option, it will automatically download it as a WAV file as that is what I put up.



Put this file onto a Memory Stick and put the Memory Stick into your keyboard.

You now need to find the file (which is on your Memory Stick) and highlight it.

Press the SELECT button in the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER.  Pressing that button three times gives you three options (MODE) .. MULTI, SIMPLE and PLAYLIST.  The one you want is SIMPLE.



The file is on USB1, so make sure that 'tab' is showing. 
Click on the file to highlight it, and click COPY.



Click OK to confirm the Copy.



Move the 'tab' across from USB1 to HD1.  PASTE it to HD1.





Now find the file on HD1 and highlight it.



In the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER press the PLAY to listen to it.



To 'play a BASS line' while you are listening to the 'Track with no Bass', you have to set your keyboard up with a BASS Voice in RIGHT 1 (R1).

The quickest way to do this is to turn your keyboard OFF .. and then turn it back ON again.

The 'default' is for your whole keyboard to be set up as PIANO ... ie. piano from top note to bottom note.

A few things to notice.

1.  Only R1 (RIGHT 1) is set up.



2.  The VOICE chosen is PIANO.



3.  The ACMP (Accompaniment) button is OFF (ie. it is not lit up).
We don't need the ACMP button on as we are not setting up the keyboard to play something using a Style.  We will be listening to a WAV file and adding another PART by MULTITRACKING it.



This setup ensures that R1 plays your chosen VOICE from top to bottom of the keyboard.
Don't turn the ACMP button on as that will introduce a SPLIT POINT and your VOICE will no longer play from top note to bottom note.

But we don't want a PIANO! 
So change the VOICE CATEGORY from PIANO to BASS.
Press the BASS category in VOICE and choose a BASS VOICE.



I have chosen LowBass (tossed between that and AcousticBass).



I will be playing the bass notes with my right hand and not my left.  Try playing a few bass notes so you can hear where best to play them.
Check the VOLUME LEVEL of your BASS.  When you turned your keyboard OFF and then ON again the 'default' was to set all the VOLUMES across the board to 100.
By pressing the BALANCE button you can change the VOLUME of RIGHT 1.
I did want to hear the bass player, so reckoned 100 was about right.





Also, when you turned your keyboard OFF and then ON again, your WAV file with NO BASS will no longer be set up to PLAY it .. so you'll have to find it again.  Follow the instructions above to find the WAV file using the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER.

Now you have your keyboard set up to both listen to the WAV track (press the PLAY in the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER) and play a bass line along with it .. give it a go!

It really is quite fun to 'play along with a band' (as those that have played in a band will tell you), and to gel with the band 'playing a part by ear' is something else again.  If I was a BASS player I would probably play something like this ...

https://audio.com/hugh-ar/audio/michaelbass3

Maybe got too carried away

In my next post I'll explain how to go about multitracking this bass part and adding it to the WAV file.

Edit (by Hugh): Images are now LINKED to a new 'cloud' storage.  Text has not been edited.

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Now that you have practised putting in a BASS by 'playing with the band', here is how to get that bass part into the mix and end up with a WAV file that everybody can listen to.  Bear in mind that once you have put in this bass part, you can listen to what you have done before SAVING it .. and if you don't like what you hear you can do it again .. and again .. and again, until you are satisfied with the final result.  This applies to any WAV file you may have of any song, and any VOICE PART you want to add in to the mix (eg. STRINGS, GUITAR, etc.).

The first step is to find the WAV file and highlight it.  On my Tyros 4 I have put my WAV file onto HD1 to work with, but I'm sure that you could also work with it from the Memory Stick.  And if you have a Yamaha keyboard that will RECORD to MP3, then it will work with an MP3 file.  But I would prefer to work with a WAV file, as an MP3 is a 'compressed' file and therefore has had some data loss.



Having found the file you can press the PLAY in the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER to listen to it (to make sure you have the right file!).

With the file highlighted, press the RECORD on the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER.  Just the RECORD button .. not the RECORD and STOP buttons together .. that is for making a NEW AUDIO recording, and we're not doing that. 



The RECORD button does not flash!  What does happen is a message comes up to say, "Hang on a minute!  You can't RECORD to here!  This is a SIMPLE recording!  You can only record over the top of an existing AUDIO file if it is a Multi Track Audio File (ie. it ends in .aud .. not WAV or MP3).  Do you want to convert this file to a Multi Track recording file?".  Now then, before you do this make sure you have your ORIGINAL WAV recording stored somewhere as at some point in this process it will override the WAV file you are working with, and you don't want to lose your original file.  Best to work with a COPY of the original file. 



Click YES and it will convert it.



You can see now that we have switched from the Simple screen to the Multi screen, and the screen you see in front of you is where you will be working from.  Click OK.



The first thing to note in this MULTI TRACK RECORDER screen is that the REC MODE says NORMAL REC. 
What does this mean?  Well, if you start recording you can't hear the track you are supposed to be 'playing along with'.  Why they have got this as the 'default' I shall never know!  You need to hear the WAV file playing in order to play that bass part!

I have also pointed out with the yellow arrow the button to click to UNDO your recording should you not be happy with the bass part you have recorded when you listen to the mix.  You can click this button as many times as you like (it's not activated at the moment because you haven't recorded anything).



Click the REC MODE button and you will get a drop-down box. 
Move down to NORMAL REC (PLUS PLAYBACK).





Press the EXIT button.



Your MULTI TRACK RECORDER screen now looks like this.  That's more like it!



Ready for it?  All geared up to go?

Press the REC button again.  This time it will be 'flashing', indicating it's ready to record.



Now press the PLAY button on the AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER and your WAV file starts playing.  On that first beat of the bar play the BASS PART you have been practising .. and keep going right to the end! 
When you have finished, press the STOP button .. but not too early!  Better to have a bit of silence at the end of the piece than to have the song 'chopped off' before it has finished.

Now press the PLAY button again, and this time it will 'play back' what you have just done.  Basically, these are two separate tracks that you are listening to .. 'playing together'.  You OK with that?  If you made a mess of it, click the UNDO (which is now activated) ...



... and the BASS part that you have just recorded is deleted. 
It will tell you to WAIT while it is doing it ...



... and then to click OK when it has finished.



Now it's 'undone' you have to press the REC again (wait for it to start flashing), and then the PLAY .. and off you go again.  You can do this as many times as you like.

Once you are satisfied with the final result, you need to get these two tracks permanently joined 'as one'. 
This is called MIXDOWN.



Click MIXDOWN and the next screen is as below.
Note the file name it is giving it, and where it is being SAVED.  Neither of these can be changed, as they are greyed out.



Click START.

It is now telling you that there already is a file with that name.  Well yes, the WAV file we started with, with NO BASS.  And we have now have a WAV file with a BASS.  Clicking on YES will replace the NO BASS file with this new one (I did say earlier that at one point your original NO BASS WAV file would be overridden).



Click YES and the MIXDOWN will proceed.



The new file with the bass you have just done is SAVED in the same place as your original file, and with the same name.  To find it, go to SELECT -  MODE - SIMPLE in your AUDIO RECORDER/PLAYER. 





As this is a SIMPLE recording, which now has the bass part added, it can be highlighted and COPIED back to your Memory Stick.

It is also worth noting that your keyboard has also SAVED your MULTI file (.aud file) in SELECT -  MODE - MULTI.



The reason why it has done this is because we are talking about MULTITRACKING here.  You may wish to add another track to the mix, and if so, you can start straight off with the MULTI file rather than the WAV file which you would have to convert.

Another thing to note.  This MULTI file (.aud) can only be handled on your own keyboard.  It can't be COPIED and PASTED onto the Memory Stick to be sent to somebody else as there is no USB1 tab .. although I do have a Memory Stick plugged in.

And yes, I have had a go at adding a BASS to the 'track with NO BASS' as I have been going along.  The result of my efforts is below.

https://audio.com/hugh-ar/audio/michaelrowmultitracked

Hugh

Edit (by Hugh): Images are now LINKED to a new 'cloud' storage.  Text has not been edited.

[Hugh Tyros 4]

And I have had this from Ron.



Hugh and I had discussed this way of two musicians collaborating as I used to be a bass player in a band, and Hugh had asked what I would have played as a bass part to his Michael Row The Boat Ashore.  We had already decided that there was no point in trying to use a MIDI recording as Hugh has a Tyros 4 and I have a Tyros 3, so any MIDI recording made on the Tyros 4 would not have had the same sound when played on my Tyros 3.  A WAV file, on the other hand, is set in stone and plays the correct sound whichever device it is played on.

Now that Hugh has put up instructions on how to MULTITRACK with an AUDIO file, I downloaded his Michael Row 'with no bass' and followed those instructions to put in a bass part of my own.  I used VINTAGE ROUND as my Voice, and did a one attempt bass part, completely off the cuff, and would not be able to duplicate what I played. I have put my effort up on audio.com.  Probably overplayed my part, but that is just the way I was hearing it.

Ron



Ron is a superb bass player, and the 'bass part' he added using his Tyros 3 was truly amazing.  Put my efforts to shame! 

Edit: Unfortunately, his recording is no longer up on audio.com, so it is not available to listen to.

Hugh

[BogdanH]

Hi Hugh .. or Ron?   
Compliments for detailed description of the process (imagine Yamaha would make such manuals).

There's one question I have (because on links you provided, I couldn't get it to play/listen)... It's assumed that your source "no bass" file is in stereo and so I guess resulting (bass added) wav is the same stereo, plus bass added over it. The question: can you influence bass position inside stereo? For example, maybe we wish to add bass more to the left channel. Or is added voice (bass) always in the center (on both channels equally loud)?

Bogdan

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Hi Bogdan,

When you load in the WAV file you are going to add to, the STEREO you have in the .aud file it creates is what you set up when you played it.  When you then choose another instrument to 'add' something into the mix, the keyboard in fact creates a separate .aud file.  The STEREO in this can be set up to whatever you want by using the MIXING CONSOLE.  In fact, anything you can do via the MIXING CONSOLE can be applied to the Voice you are about to use (as well as the VOLUME) .. eg. PAN; REVERB etc.





(Keep pressing the button until you see RIGHT1.)





When you play the MULTI file (.aud) back you are in fact listening to two files, each with their own stereo setup.
It's when you do the MIXDOWN that the two are put together as one file .. keeping the STEREO the same as before.

I am concerned that you say you cannot listen to any of the LINKS to audio.com that I have put in above.  Audio.com is run by the people who do AUDACITY, and is somewhere to put your music .. and it's FREE (and they say, 'For ever').  It's a bit like YouTube, but for AUDIO, not Videos.

Hugh

PS.  Both Ron and I have decided that you can't use MEGAVOICES in RIGHT1 for doing this.  The notes don't work properly when you play them!  So choose another TYPE of Voice with the same name eg. S.Articulation! or Cool!.

Edit (by Hugh): Images are now LINKED to a new 'cloud' storage.  Text has not been edited.

[BogdanH]

Thank you for additional helpful explanation!

About I can't listen your links.. The page opens and I see the content, but if I click on play, nothing happens.
Additional info... I kept your audio.com page open while I'm typing this, and after I while I got a message in audio.com window:
Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information).
-which I see the first time in my life and so I have no idea who to blame 
But it doesn't matter as you explained everything perfectly.

Greetings,
Bogdan

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Bogdan,

I am very glad you have told me that as Ron is now getting the same message as you .. Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information) .. and can no longer LINK to the music .. not even his own!  He has been in touch with the developers of audio.com and they asked him what he was using to access their site.  It appears that recently they have upgraded their on-line facility to version 2.0, so this must be the problem as it worked perfectly all right before!  Ron has a 7 year old iPad which won't upgrade it's operating system any more.  The audio.com people are looking into it and are going to get back to him.

Obvious question .. what device are you using to access audio.com?  I am using a 64 bit Windows laptop running Windows 10. My browser is Google Chrome .. and I don't have a problem.

Hugh

[BogdanH]

hi Hugh,
Now that you say audio.com updated their software, a assume the problem is on their side (..putting hammer back in drawer...) 
I'm on PC, Windows10 64bit and using Firefox browser. Browser is version 85 (is not the latest), but works perfectly otherwise.

Regards,
Bogdan

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Hi Bogdan,

I am wondering if you are now able to listen to any of those audio.com LINKS in the posts above?  Has this been resolved?  The beauty of putting an explanation like this up on the internet (as opposed to explaining something in a magazine) is that you can add the music so people can actually hear what it is you are on about.

Another thing I am wondering about ...

I have a friend who has a PSR-SX700 (which is the keyboard you have) and he tells me that there is no option to MULTITRACK AUDIO.  The only way to Multitrack on the SX700 is doing it with the MIDI RECORDER.

?

He also thinks that this option is not available with the PSR-SX900, or the Genos 1 (?) ... but is available on the new Genos 2.  I don't have these keyboards ... so can somebody who does have these keyboards confirm whether or not this is the case?

Hugh

[Ron]

I have no wish for you using my name in your long winded explanations on how you do things.
Remove any reference to me in any future posts of your Topics.

Ron

[DerekA]

You *cannot* multitrack audio on *any* of the PSR or SX series.

You *can* multitrack audio on Tyros5, Genos1 and Genos2

Not sure about Tyros 1-4

[rodrigo.b]

You *cannot* multitrack audio on *any* of the PSR or SX series.

You *can* multitrack audio on Tyros5, Genos1 and Genos2

Not sure about Tyros 1-4

You cannot do it also on the CVP. Why Yamaha? Why? 

[Ron]

Still waiting for you, Hugh Wallington, to remove all references to me in this post.  You were quick enough to delete my membership of your forum plus videos from YouTube.  So edit out my name and relevant text as I do not want anyone to associate me with you.

Ron