List of new sounds in Genos2

[pjd]

Hi --

I did a quick scan through the G1 and G2 data lists and made a list of the new sounds to be found in G2. This is not an exhaustive list of new voice names, but a reduction to a base instrument like "Classic nylon guitar." Yamaha uses the same waveforms (AKA samples) to produce multiple, variant voices. It shouldn't be too hard to take the next step and find the specific SArt voices (or whatever) using the base instrument waveforms.

Hope this helps with purchase decisions and getting started with G2 -- pj

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-genos2-new-voices/
https://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-2-is-here/

P.S. If someone wants to write a script to create an exhaustive list, I suggest comparing the G1 and G2 voice lists in the new MIDI to style conversion program. Those lists look script snarfing friendly. 

[Ric4001]

Thanks for doing this.  Exactly what I was looking for!

[richkeys]

pj,
What is your best guess on the G2's CFX piano equivalency to MODX CFX parts? I recall that you analyzed G1's CFX was equivalent to one part MODX. Since Yamaha is claiming "double dynamic layers" and longer samples, do you think G2 is two MODX parts? I'm not bringing MontageM's CFX into the comparison here because I suspect that one has the most detail with all the extra elements they added.

Rich

[soundphase]

Does « more velocity layers » mean each voice has now 16 elements ?

[DaPaleRider]

Great info, thank you

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

What advantage is have a audio interface in Genos 2
You could record audio in Genos 1.
If you want to use VST then you use an external interface like focusrite.
I do not see any advantages here or am i missing something?

[jugge]

What advantage is have a audio interface in Genos 2
You could record audio in Genos 1.
If you want to use VST then you use an external interface like focusrite.
I do not see any advantages here or am i missing something?

Hi John,

The advantage is that audio interface is now built in in the Genos, so it might not be necessary to buy a separate audio interface.
You just connect Genos to your computer and it will show up in your DAW as an external audio interface.
Built in USB audio interface has been included in Yamaha workstations like Montage and MODX for ages, but I believe this is the first time Yamaha have included it in an arranger. The drawback is that I think the Genos only have 2 outputs/inputs, so if you want to devide the instruments to separate audio tracks you have to record every track separately by muting/unmuting one track at time, so it will take some time to record 10 tracks or more. Montage that have 32 output/6 input.

/Jugge

[Des O]

Hi John,

The advantage is that audio interface is now built in in the Genos, so it might not be necessary to buy a separate audio interface.
You just connect Genos to your computer and it will show up in your DAW as an external audio interface.
Built in USB audio interface has been included in Yamaha workstations like Montage and MODX for ages, but I believe this is the first time Yamaha have included it in an arranger. The drawback is that I think the Genos only have 2 outputs/inputs, so if you want to devide the instruments to separate audio tracks you have to record every track separately by muting/unmuting one track at time, so it will take some time to record 10 tracks or more. Montage that have 32 output/6 input.

/Jugge

Not so I understand, I have my G1 connected to laptop but also you can record multiple tracks real-time in midi direct to Daw.
Casper tutosynth has a video on this on YT.
You can now also record direct to Yamahas rec&share app.


Edit by overover: :Reply text moved outside the quoted text

[ton37]

Am I mistaken here: or are 'audio' channels being confused with 'midi' channels? 

[pjd]

What is your best guess on the G2's CFX piano equivalency to MODX CFX parts?

Does « more velocity layers » mean each voice has now 16 elements ?

Tough questions, friends, and not really enough information about G2's software-level synthesis architecture at this point.

I simply cannot draw the inference: more layers --> more elements per voice. I think G2 still is trying to live within the limits of the XG synthesis and effects architecture, e.g., 8 elements per voice.

I did edit the Montage M CFX during my trial. It has the same elements as the mark 1 Montage. Did Yamaha use longer samples on Montage M -- don't know.

I'm not expecting great shakes with the CFX on G2. Neither G2 or Montage M have adopted Grand Expression Modeling, Virtual Element Modeling or binaural sampling from the Clavinovas and portable digital pianos. I think if someone wants the best Yamaha digital piano sound, they need to look to the piano product lines.

I'd like to try G2, but it's like finding hen's teeth in N.A. (without travel!).

All the best -- pj

[richkeys]

I did edit the Montage M CFX during my trial. It has the same elements as the mark 1 Montage.

I'm not expecting great shakes with the CFX on G2. Neither G2 or Montage M have adopted Grand Expression Modeling, Virtual Element Modeling or binaural sampling from the Clavinovas and portable digital pianos. I think if someone wants the best Yamaha digital piano sound, they need to look to the piano product lines.

Wow, that's interesting about the Montage M piano elements. Also, thanks for the little analysis of G2 & Montage pianos vs. digital pianos.

Rich

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Am I mistaken here: or are 'audio' channels being confused with 'midi' channels? 

No not really
If you have an external sound scource like a Focusrite box and Genos 2 Usb audio interface you have the same thing.
What i was trying to get my head around was , what is the advantages--Not a lot in my opinion.
You still have to record your tracks from midi if you need to edit your song and then convert once happy to wave files.
I wonder what the quality of the Yamaha audio device is compared to a focusrite 4th Gen 4i4?
With Cubase you can have the lot and VST instruments and they have notes that you can edit before rendering to wave file.
Peronally i cannot see the advantage of the Yamaha usb audio interface.
The thing is how good is it compared to the external sound devices on the market

[pjd]

Wow, that's interesting about the Montage M piano elements. Also, thanks for the little analysis of G2 & Montage pianos vs. digital pianos.

Rich

No prob, Rich. I've studied this to death since last summer and now have a CSP-170 on order. It's a close-out at a reduced price. If only Yamaha would get it off their shipping dock in LA...

Have a good weekend -- pj

[jimlaing]

Thanks pod - useful info!  So, from pjd's "new sounds" list, it looks like G2 gives a LOT more new sounds, in addition to the ones that recent videos tend to highlight (new CFX and other pianos, the FM stuff, nylon guitar, ethnic flutes, etc.)  I like that there are new Tympani and new Chimes (tubular bells) as those seem to not have changed much since early Tyros models.  A new bright and clear Chime sound is something I've wanted.  And we get alot of new brass, it seems.  More to the G2 than we might have initially thought from those earliest videos from Yamaha.

[Michael Trigoboff]

I wonder what the quality of the Yamaha audio device is compared to a focusrite 4th Gen 4i4?
...
The thing is how good is it compared to the external sound devices on the market

I wonder about this myself, but it doesn't matter that much to me because the G2 doesn't have the S/PDIF digital audio output that the G1 has, so I can't think of a practical way to get digital audio from the G2 into my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.

It's a shame, because I really like the 8i6. 

[Bill]

I wonder about this myself, but it doesn't matter that much to me because the G2 doesn't have the S/PDIF digital audio output that the G1 has,

Hi Michael

It makes you wonder why Yamaha decided to leave it off the build. I use it with my current G1, so useful having only the one cable in a home use situation.

Bill

[StuartR]

I wonder about this myself, but it doesn't matter that much to me because the G2 doesn't have the S/PDIF digital audio output that the G1 has, so I can't think of a practical way to get digital audio from the G2 into my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.

It's a shame, because I really like the 8i6. 

So they removed that interface as well as most of the onboard storage? What were they thinking? Perhaps the Yamaha rep in the Bonners video summed it all up when he said that "we didn't need a tiltable screen" . Yamaha knows what we need and how long we will wait for them to bestow it on us.

Sorry, my disappointment is showing again  Mea Culpa.

[StuartR]

Thanks pod - useful info!  So, from pjd's "new sounds" list, it looks like G2 gives a LOT more new sounds, in addition to the ones that recent videos tend to highlight (new CFX and other pianos, the FM stuff, nylon guitar, ethnic flutes, etc.)  I like that there are new Tympani and new Chimes (tubular bells) as those seem to not have changed much since early Tyros models.  A new bright and clear Chime sound is something I've wanted.  And we get alot of new brass, it seems.  More to the G2 than we might have initially thought from those earliest videos from Yamaha.

And they could have just as easily provided those new sounds for the G1 in an expansion pack, years ago. But now we'll have to pay upwards of $5900 US for them?

[ton37]

That is obvious you're a bit dissapointed, that's ok. I had already indicated that many may have had far too high expectations for a new Genos2. If you read back in the forum you keep coming up with 'Genos1 is the best keyboard on the market' and stands out far above the competitors. Has that changed? (OK, a bit biased, this is a Yammie forum!) That's what the customers think, those who bought it. What do you expect from a producer? Look at mobile phones, TVs, cars, etc., etc. Every new model is not a revolution either. People will buy it anyway.
Want to put a second batch of Genossen1 on the market after so many years? Or one that is so different from the Genos1 that you almost should have given it a different name. Smart entrepreneurship builds on past successes and keeps an eye on its competitors. I'm curious which competitors have now become real competitors? So a successor to a successful Genos1 with some adjustments. As for the price. Make a calculation model of what the Genos1 cost at the time and what the Genos2 costs now. Subtract the various (environmental) taxes and then talk about net prices. That's all relative. Of course it is a lot of money, but is it expensive? What did you expect? 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The tilt screen would be a strain on the electronic ribbon like some are having trouble with the Tyros.
Plug your new Genos into a monitor , the screen can be as big as you like.
The reverse print on screens is a bonus to people who gig outside,black on white background.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I wonder about this myself, but it doesn't matter that much to me because the G2 doesn't have the S/PDIF digital audio output that the G1 has, so I can't think of a practical way to get digital audio from the G2 into my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.

It's a shame, because I really like the 8i6. 

I have my Genos set up to use the Focusrite  and it can be done on the Genos 2.
The spdf thing is no better that rca leads in my opinion as i have tried it and reverted back.
I am not a electric expert but i will configure Genos 2 to my Focusrite. Maybe you can use that or the inbuilt one and leave it, or use it.
For recording midi i have just use the Yamaha driver and the focusrite switched off until i have edited the midi in Cubase 13.
Cannot wait to get this new Genos . I will have it sussed out then with only one problem. An aching back trying to sort the railway lines out under the table and diverting them to different stations Puff ' puffed out!!

[Dutchman]

And they could have just as easily provided those new sounds for the G1 in an expansion pack, years ago. But now we'll have to pay upwards of $5900 US for them?

I know how you feel, in one of the videos by Martin Harris he used the new ethnic flutes together with the new Arabic style, I'd love to have those on my G1 but when Yamaha presents their new arranger then they obviously will have to have new features, styles and voices lest no one would be very interested in it.
It's a bummer but that's how things work.
I was a bit disappointed by what they showed initially and thought trading in my my two year old G1 and having to pay an extra three grand wouldn't be worth it but after seeing and learning more about the G2 I wish I could afford it.
I was able to buy my G1 because of an inheritance so I call myself very lucky having it but I'm far from being able to afford the G2.

[pjd]

So they removed that interface as well as most of the onboard storage? What were they thinking? Perhaps the Yamaha rep in the Bonners video summed it all up when he said that "we didn't need a tiltable screen" . Yamaha knows what we need and how long we will wait for them to bestow it on us.

Sorry, my disappointment is showing again  Mea Culpa.

Please, do not feel guilty complaining about this issue.

I was going to let my aggravation go, but this is another example of B.S. penny-ante Yamaha engineering. They saved what, $3 on the digital output (driver+connector) and probably another $3 cutting the USER drive to 15GB?

Their hardware group should thank their lucky stars that I am not their manager. I would fire the whole lot of them.

I want to like G2 and Yamaha, but I'm calling B.S.

-- pj

[pjd]

Maarten suggested the following video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw8O0YelBR8

It's in German so I thought I would exercise my "Powerpoint German" with the help of Google translate.

The presenters are from Keyboard Akademie and they focus on the new pianos. Here's a few key points.

The CFX is new. The Genos1 CFX is five strike levels (incorrectly called "layers") and the Genos2 is seven strike levels. Everything is more finely resolved and the sustain phase has been doubled. Listening to the demo, I'd say it's been improved! I've been playing a lot of Clavinovas lately. Genos2 is not up to that level, but it is more than respectable.

The presenters spent a lot of time on the new REVelation Hall reverb and praise it for "enlivening" the piano sound. After hearing it on the CFX, I agree.

They touched on the Character piano, cinematic piano and felt piano. The Character piano is a piano with "rough edges" and demonstrated it with a Scott Joplin rag. The Cinematic piano is programmed to sound mysterious. Think theme from the movie "Halloween." The Felt piano is softened by felt wound through the strings. I have the felt piano on MODX and play it. The Genos2 REVelation reverb makes it sound damned good. Really.

So, there you have it. I'd love to corroborate the number of strike levels with a Yamaha source, but there's no reason to doubt these chaps.

Hope this info helps -- pj