Plastic housing or metal - I got a dent in my Genos!

[Toril S]

Hello friends Some days ago my beloved Genos recieved a small scrape. It is at one corner, and the instrument is OK, just a scar. Naturally I was sorry for this, and started thinking about how good it would be if the casing were hard metal. I am cured of this now! At my music store I saw (and tried to lift) a Kawai piano, smaller than Genos, with metal casing. HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY! I am not a very strong person, but can lift my Genos without any problem, so thanks for the plastic fantastic! As for the scrape, it is just patina, my Genos have been used. Life gives some scars to us all

[keynote]

A dent is different than a scrape at least here in the good ol' USA. If in fact, it's just a minor scrape, with no actual indentation of any sort, then perhaps if you use a soft clean cloth with a little water added (ringed out of course) you might be able to rub it out to make the surface look good as new. If that doesn't work perhaps posting a photo of the area in question to better determine how to go about resolving the issue if possible. If it's an actual indentation then you might consult Yamaha as to a remedy if you want it fixed.

All the best, Mike

[Divemaster]

I love your philosophy Toril..
"Life gives some scars to us all"

So very true, and one reason I believe in mindfullness.
You cannot change what happened yesterday, so move on...Yesterday is in the past Today is a new day.

Hope you get your keyboard fixed. 

[mikf]

Dents and scrapes may not damage functionality of a Genos, but even cosmetic damage could reduce the trade-in or sales value. But this is not an issue for Toril, because selling keyboards is against her religion.

Mike

[LarsMoss]

Hello Toril !

My Genos also got some damage because a heavy thing fell down from a bookshelf above.
Now I have ordered some spareparts from a Yamaha dealer and are just waiting for the upper
kabinett. Some small things like knobs and I already got. If you are interested from where I
ordered my spareparts, you can contact me.

Best regards
LarsMoss

[Toril S]

Thanks my friends😀

[Toril S]

Mike, yes, i still have the same religion, so all the keyboards stay put A scrape is the correct term, and I can feel it very well, and it can be seen. But it is small, so changing the upper housing is a little overkill, as long as everything else is fine.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Toril
Even worse when i went to a football match in my new Quashqai which was four years ago some horrible git smacked my car passenger side in whilst away from the car park and caused £1000 of damage. Thank the lord for insurance.
Has others also may of experienced shopping trolleys cause side door damage as well.
I want the new Genos this year as i do not want any more wear on the print on buttons on my Genos.The Start/Stop hash jas disappeared and my 1 and 2 numbers on registration buttons thinning. What a pain on a £5000 keyboard.
Oh well, the administrators should make a place for the Victor Meldrew section. ( Just look up english comedy "One foot in the grave" and you will get the idea!!) lol, Curmudgeners Corner. "i don't believe it"!!



All the Best
John

[maartenb]

i do not want any more wear on the print on buttons on my Genos.The Start/Stop hash jas disappeared and my 1 and 2 numbers on registration buttons thinning.

On the Tyros 5 the printing on the buttons were on the INSIDE. You never touched the ink. Brilliant.

I've never understood why Yamaha chose to go back to OUTSIDE printing of the buttons on the Genos. Everyone knows that printing that is touched will fade over time, unless it's engraved. 

Hope they fix it for Genos 2.


Maarten

[soryt]

If they can make a 7KG YC61 , they can make a Genos with metal housing at max 15Kg . (korg can  )

[keynote]

A metal housing for the Genos2 would be preferable if they can keep the total weight at an acceptable level. The Korg Pa5x's have metal housing as we know. Korg's "61-key" pa5X is 15.1 kg (33.29 lbs). Of course, the Genos2 (if Yamaha makes a Genos2) will purportedly come in both 76-key & 61-key versions. An 88-key would be an absolute bonus. But we'll see. FWIW, I previously owned a Roland Fantom G7 (76-key) workstation keyboard that weighed in @ 36 lbs 7 oz. that had a metal housing, and was built like a tank. The Pa5X 76-key is about 2 lbs heavier by comparison. We also know senior citizens would like keyboards as light as possible, so they can lift them and carry them around without busting a gut. So be it. And I agree the lettering on the buttons should be placed underneath not on top. Why would Yamaha cut corners on something that worked like a dream on the Tyros 5? Trying to save a buck on a $6,000 keyboard is penny wise but pound foolish. Hopefully it will be corrected on the Genos2 (if Yamaha actually makes a Genos2).

Pa5X-88: 20.1 kg / 44.31 lbs
Pa5X-76: 17.4 kg / 38.36 lbs
Pa5X-61: 15.1 kg / 33.29 lbs
PaAS (optional): 5.70 kg / 12.56 lbs

All the best, Mike

[Toril S]

Titanium housing maybe. It is light and strong.

[Divemaster]

Unfortunately all the dings and dents that spoil our possessions, and often caused by a momentary lapse of concentration are rarely easily fixed. Years of experience have taught me that unless you know exactly how to repair or refurbish certain modern materials you can make the original damage look even worse. Leave well alone is my advice. Just live with them. Try matching car paints as an example..... There are literally tens of thousands of colours and shades. Get it wrong and it looks a mess.

[travlin-easy]

Ironically, in the past 40 years of playing arranger keyboards at thousands of venues, all of which required loading and unloading the equipment on to a cart, then setting up at a venue, I never once damaged my keyboards. Additionally, I never wore the printing off the buttons. However, for those that have worn off the printing on the buttons, purchase some computer key stick on labels, which will remain forever.

As for steel V/S plastic, well many of the newer plastics are stronger and have greater resistance to damage from impact. Roland made their keyboards with steel, they weighed a ton, difficult to transport and were quite expensive. Those heavy steel arrangers were made of thin steel and dented easily. Once dented, you had a large expense to have that dent removed. Bulletproof vests are made of Kevlar - not steel.

All the best,

Gary

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

To my knowledge none of the Tyros keyboards ( Ty1 - Ty5 made in Japan ) has ever met this kind of similar complaints.
Silver / black printing and 100% plastic.

Never heard there were problems with the black Tyros4 version either, am I right ?

JH

[Amwilburn]

A metal housing for the Genos2 would be preferable if they can keep the total weight at an acceptable level. The Korg Pa5x's have metal housing as we know. Korg's "61-key" pa5X is 15.1 kg (33.29 lbs). Of course, the Genos2 (if Yamaha makes a Genos2) will purportedly come in both 76-key & 61-key versions. An 88-key would be an absolute bonus. But we'll see. FWIW, I previously owned a Roland Fantom G7 (76-key) workstation keyboard that weighed in @ 36 lbs 7 oz. that had a metal housing, and was built like a tank. The Pa5X 76-key is about 2 lbs heavier by comparison. We also know senior citizens would like keyboards as light as possible, so they can lift them and carry them around without busting a gut. So be it. And I agree the lettering on the buttons should be placed underneath not on top. Why would Yamaha cut corners on something that worked like a dream on the Tyros 5? Trying to save a buck on a $6,000 keyboard is penny wise but pound foolish. Hopefully it will be corrected on the Genos2 (if Yamaha actually makes a Genos2).

Pa5X-88: 20.1 kg / 44.31 lbs
Pa5X-76: 17.4 kg / 38.36 lbs
Pa5X-61: 15.1 kg / 33.29 lbs
PaAS (optional): 5.70 kg / 12.56 lbs

All the best, Mike

Therein lies the problem; 38lbs for the PA5x76 vs the Genos' 7 6 @28 lbs, it's a full 10 lbs heavier. those 10 lbs meant nothing to me in my 20's, 30's and 40's, but now in my 50's? I'd want it under 30 lbs as well.

However, that's not 100% on the metal casing; the Tyros 5-76 was also 38 lbs, and it too, was plastic. If Yamaha can give us aluminum casing instead of plastic at the same weight? 100% I'd be here for it!

The DGX670 is 47lbs and the P515 is 49.5lbs. I hate lifting them both, but it's not an issue if you're only going to leave it in your bedroom/living room.
Mark

[travlin-easy]

The housing, itself, is not all that heavy - it what is inside that weighs more, mainly due to added circuit boards, wires, connectors, and in the mid range boards, higher quality speakers and amps. The housing likely weighs less than 10 or 15 pounds.

Good luck,

Gary

[keynote]

I agree that plastic materials have become stronger and lighter. Btw, by using a novel polymerization process, MIT chemical engineers have created a new material that is stronger than steel and as light as plastic, and can be easily manufactured in large quantities. The new substance is the result of a feat thought to be impossible: polymerizing a material in two dimensions. The new material is a two-dimensional polymer that self-assembles into sheets, unlike all other polymers, which form one-dimensional, spaghetti-like chains. Until now, scientists had believed it was impossible to induce polymers to form 2D sheets. Such a material could be used as a lightweight, durable coating for car parts or cell phones, or as a building material for bridges or other structures, according to the published report back in February 2022. So, in theory, it could also be used as a coating for keyboard housings to make them strong as steel and lightweight and perhaps impervious to dents and/or scratches. The researchers found that the new material's elastic modulus — a measure of how much force it takes to deform a material — is between four and six times greater than that of bulletproof glass. They also found that its yield strength, or how much force it takes to break the material, is twice that of steel, even though the material has only about one-sixth the density of steel. But it'll probably be a while before we would see something of this nature used in keyboard housings. Nevertheless, it's quite a breakthrough in the manufacturing process going forward. 

All the best, Mike

[mikf]

Plastics don't have better strength than steel, (ignoring the new polymer Mike reports above which is not available commercially) —  but they have better strength to density ratios  and sometimes better stiffness to density ratios. This means they can be made thick enough to be strong enough, but still be lighter overall. The problem with steel in weight sensitive applications is that it has to made thin to keep weight down, which although strong enough overall, makes it easier to dent. Aluminum is better, with good strength to density, but pricier.
The weight difference from the steel casing compared to plastic, may not be that big compared to total weight of the keyboard, but it would have to be be thin. Make it thicker and it will be like a tank, but now the weight gets you. It's all compromise in design. No absolute answer.
Mike

[BogdanH]

I personally don't care what material is used for keyboard housing. Keyboard is not a quarry machinery and so which material is stronger is irrelevant. More important is the quality of chosen material. Plastic is just fine for that purpose: allows very flexible design & construction solutions, and is light & cheap material. The only downside I see is, it's not very servicing friendly. Screws are usually screwed directly into plastic housing and threads get damaged after taking keyboard apart few times. But that's not material fault -the reason is cheapo production. Manufacturer could use threaded metal inserts and problem would be solved. But they don't care obviously. Why I'm mentioning this? Because keys on my PSR-SX rattle and need to be greased about every 8 months.
Ok, keys on Genos don't rattle.. but that's not the point. It's about product quality and I have impression that many are quite forgiving in this regard. Speaking for me, I expect better engineering than for some 80€ vacuum cleaner. Print fading on Genos knobs, knob can break if not pushed at the right spot? There's simply no excuse for that -it's embarrassing actually.

@Toril
Now that you baptized the keyboard, you can actually call it yours -we use to say that for cars here 

Bogdan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Titanium housing maybe. It is light and strong.

Hi Toril
Did you work at NASA??
Maybe Yamaha can then call the next keyboard Voyager 1
You will also need extra re-entry panels to make sure that it does not overheat .
All i can say to you Toril is ,"You must have a nice bank balance"!! .
No wonder that you keep all your keyboards!! if they are made of Titanium.

[Toril S]

John, I am working at making my Genos spaceworthy. Hence the scrape😀😀😀 First rocket misfired😀😀

[pjd]

I've been using these "plastic" keyboards for years. Whenever anybody has smacked their acoustic guitar into one of them, it's usually the guitar that walks away with a dent. 

-- pj

[travlin-easy]

I've been using these "plastic" keyboards for years. Whenever anybody has smacked their acoustic guitar into one of them, it's usually the guitar that walks away with a dent. 

-- pj

[Richard Kent]

Down here in the Lone Star State, when anything (including keyboard scrapes) needs fixing, we all reach for a roll of duct tape.  I noticed that Matt Damon saved his life by using a handy roll of duct tape to repair the cracks in his space helmet in the movie The Martian..

[overover]

Hi all,

There have often been discussions about the material/quality/durability of keyboard housings.

I think it doesn't matter if you see that an instrument, including a keyboard, is being used. Guitarists, for example, pay a lot of money for (new) guitars that look like they have been played on tour for over 60 years:
>>> https://www.promusictools.com/de/en/fender-custom-shop-custom-50s-strat-heavy-relic-masterbuilt-by-vincent-van-trigt-black-over-violin-burst.html


Best regards,
Chris

[travlin-easy]

I once used Duct Tape to hold an airplane window in while in flight at 10,000 feet when it suddenly cracked was in danger of falling out. When we got to the next airport and went in for repairs at the Cessna hanger, the technician said he would tell everyone to keep a roll of Duct Tape in their plane at all times, just to be on the safe side. He said he was amazed that that tape held the window in place for more than 1,000 miles at those air speeds.

All the best,

Gary