MIDI controlling style controls?

[jcm2016]

I have a CVP 805 I've now ventured into Midi songs and I'm confused at the relationship (if any) with the styles.

I downloaded a few songs from the Midi section of this site (the process was smooth and they played easily on the keyboard).

While playing, the lights in the styles section lit up - like variation B and then an ending at the end.  But the style being listed on the home screen did not sound like what I that was being played by the song.  I tried a few other Midi songs, and similarly things lit up in the styles section, but it didn't seem to correspond to the 'style' of the song.

How, if at all, does the Midi song control the style section?  What was happening on the keyboard?

I thought a Midi song was a series of commands to the keyboard telling it to play this voice at this volume for this long and so on.  Is it actually telling the keyboard to play a style?  Then why doesn't the style show up on the screen?

Thanks.

[jcm2016]

Hello - any thoughts on this?  Much appreciated.

[overover]

Hi jcm2016,

When you make a recording with MIDI Quick Recording, the Style Control commands and the Chords played are automatically written to the MIDI file, among other things. If a Preset style is used, its internal style number is also written to the file.

When the MIDI file is played back, this (preset) style is then automatically loaded again, and the style sections are automatically switched as in the original recording. You could now choose any other style and start the MIDI file at the same time as the style (e.g. via Sync Start). Then the style is controlled by the MIDI file.

In many cases the recorded style control commands are not required in the MIDI file. They can be relatively easily removed with the PC (Windows) program "PSRUTI":
>>> https://heikoplate.de/psruti.html

Procedure:
- Load the MIDI file into PSRUTI
- Click "Extras > Delete Keyboard Events"
- Make sure at least "Delete Sy*** Events Style" is checked (Usually you can leave the default setting here, i.e. all checkboxes are ticked except for the bottom one.)
- Click "Ok > Ok > Exit"
- Resave the MIDI file (Note that "Save" will overwrite the source file without asking. So use "Save as" and enter a changed name to keep the original file.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

MIDI is just a protocol. The data it contains depends on you or the equipment manufacturer. So yes it can contain data to select and drive a style via chords  - or indeed not contain that data.
Mike

[jcm2016]

Thank you for responses.

What I observed was that the lights of style controls were changing, but the name of the style on the screen didn't match what was coming out of the speakers.   I didn't create the Midi file.

It makes sense to me that if the creator of the file has the style on that it would be saved as part of the Midi file.  But then why if the keyboard is playing a particular style, doesn't the screen reflect the style being played?

That's where I get confused - on what the Midi file is doing to the style.

Much appreciated

[mikf]

Without an in depth analysis of the actual midi file, we cannot know exactly what data is captured, and how it drives your playback. And truthfully, very few people have the expertise or desire to do that. But why does it matter? You seem to be worrying about fully understanding the midi function, when it doesn't really affect anything. Just ignore the lights.
Mike

[jcm2016]

Thanks for the response.   

[overover]

Hi jcm2016,

When playing a MIDI file normally, it doesn't matter which style is set, because the style is not running. That means you always only hear the (up to) 16 channels of the MIDI file. As mentioned, some MIDI files can contain Style Control commands.

If a preset style was used when the MIDI file was originally recorded, this style will be automatically set again when the MIDI file is played back. If the MIDI file is played back on another keyboard and the original style is not present there, a different ("similar") style may be set.

If a User Style was used in the original recording, it will NOT be set automatically when the MIDI file is played back, even if it were present on the keyboard (in the User drive or on the USB stick).

As already mentioned: Just ignore the lit Style Control buttons and the eventual automatic setting of another Style, OR remove the Style Control Sy*** with PSRUTI as described above. The best thing is to do also an "XG Optimization" in PSRUTI to get a clean XG MIDI file. (Click the "Help" button in PSRUTI to view the manual.)


Best regards,
Chris

[d00d]

If a preset style was used when the MIDI file was originally recorded, this style will be automatically set again when the MIDI file is played back. If the MIDI file is played back on another keyboard and the original style is not present there, a different ("similar") style may be set.

If a User Style was used in the original recording, it will NOT be set automatically when the MIDI file is played back, even if it were present on the keyboard (in the User drive or on the USB stick).

@overover, is this because of the difference in location/storage search path of the style? also, are there any references on this kind of stuff as it's not available in the usual docs (e.g. user manual, reference manual, and data list)?

[jcm2016]

Thanks for the responses.

I find all of them helpful in growing my understanding of how things work, and what is worth knowing and what is noise.

[overover]

@overover, is this because of the difference in location/storage search path of the style? also, are there any references on this kind of stuff as it's not available in the usual docs (e.g. user manual, reference manual, and data list)?

Hi d00d,

When recording the style play with MIDI Quick Recording, the internal style number of the preset style used is written to the MIDI file (Sy*** "Style No.). The file path to a style is never written to the MIDI file, that's why this works, as I said, only with Preset Styles, but not with User Styles.

Information on Sy*** and Meta Events used in MIDI Song files can be found in the CVP-809 Data List (rev. "c0") on pages 132/133:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/manuals/index.html?l=en&c=digital_pianos&k=CVP-809


Best regards,
Chris