non weighted keys touch comparison

[Strideplayer]

I have yet to find a Genos to try out. I, a long time piano player, had the opportunity to play a PSR-EW425 in Tucson yesterday. Felt strange but I managed to keep a melody going. Perhaps I could get used to it. My question - Is the touch of the PSR-EW425 close to what a Genos would feel like?
A secondary question - I haven't been able to ascertain if the Genos has the Bosendorfer. Does it?
Thanks,
Strideplayer

[mixermixer]

PSR series never gets the Tyros/Genos keybeds, The E series probably has an even cheaper action.  A look at the Genos Data list shows that it doesn't have the Bosendorfer.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/1131013/genos_en_dl_f0.pdf

[DerekA]

The keybed on Genos feels 'better' than the E series. It's hard to describe - certainly nothing like a proper weighted keyboard, but a more positive, firm-ish action with a soft spring feel. Maybe someone else can describe it more eloquently !

No, Yamaha have not made the Bosendorfer pack available for Genos, even though they did for Montage / MODX There are loads of third party piano expansion packs out there. They are all 'different' - whether better or not than the inbuilt is quite subjective.

[pjd]

Hi --

I definitely prefer the Genos keybed. Yamaha call this "FSX". In addition to a better action, it has aftertouch. This is a premium keyboard in Yamaha-land.

I doubt if the EW425 is anywhere near the FSX/Genos in quality.

Hope this helps -- pj

[Strideplayer]

Yes, it helps and so did the two previous comments.  Thanks all. I think I heard the CFX first in a P-515. To be honest, it doesn't 'speak' to me. But the Bosendorfer certainly did so that will be a must have in my next keyboard. I do not read music, I strictly go by ear. I think I can get used to the light keys. The search goes on. I must admit that Alois Müller's daily offerings, now on the Korg Pa5x, is making quite an impression (I can speak German).

Strideplayer

[mikf]

My CVP has both CVX and Bosendorfer pianos but interestingly I have come to prefer the CVX. I have played both real acoustic grands a few times and much preferred the  Bosendorfer although both are great pianos. But in the arranger I find the more cutting tone of the CVX voice works through the accompaniment better. Maybe this more sharp tone is why Yamaha CVX pianos are so popular in studios.
BTW, my two cents worth on the keyboard action. I have not played a Genos, and I am sure it will be one of the better feeling keyboards - in arrangers. But I am equally confident that for a piano player it will still fall well short of an acoustic piano because they all do.
To get close to that real piano feel you have  to go to a CVP or if you want portability, marry a quality controller keyboard with the arranger. I did that for years and it works well. It's relatively easy to set the arranger so you can easily access all the controls, using it as the sound module, but driving it from the controller keyboard. Yes, you have to carry an extra piece, but controller keyboards are fairly light - and low cost.
Mike

[AndrewKeyz]

I am an amateur pianist (grade 5-6 ish) and love the U1 piano I have. Probably the best keybed I have ever played, it just seems natural and right. The only thing that has ever come close was a Kawai CA67 I owned for a few years. Almost an exact replica of the U1 keybed.

The Genos is probably one of the better keyboard keybeds I've played, at least as far as I can remember anyway. As many have stated the cheaper PSR ones will probably be quite a bit less in quality. I have read comments (mostly on YouTube) that the SX900 / SX700 keybeds can get noisy over time. No idea if that is true but just thought I would mention it.

I can sort of get used to the Genos for piano parts but it's still weird having the missing keys and I tend to make more mistakes on it than on the piano I reckon, due to the lack of proper weighted action. I will be pairing the Genos up with a weighted action soon. Looking at a Kawai based action or the Yamaha CP88 as was recommended to me here on the forum just the other day.
Maybe it is an option you can consider. Something like a second hand Kawai ES8 or ES920 would probably be excellent alongside an SX600/700/900 / Genos. Buy both a Genos and Kawai ES or yammie P515 second hand, a stand and speakers and you're still most likely saving money than when buying a new Genos on its own. 

After quite negative experiences with my Korg PA5X-88 and also a Roland RD 2000 I am weary of the everything in one solution + will be avoiding Fatar keybeds and probably anything non Kawai or non Yamaha based for the rest of my life after feeling financially burned with those boards.

Yes, it helps and so did the two previous comments.  Thanks all. I think I heard the CFX first in a P-515. To be honest, it doesn't 'speak' to me. But the Bosendorfer certainly did so that will be a must have in my next keyboard. I do not read music, I strictly go by ear. I think I can get used to the light keys. The search goes on. I must admit that Alois Müller's daily offerings, now on the Korg Pa5x, is making quite an impression (I can speak German).

Strideplayer

I really don't recommend the PA5X88 for many, many reasons. Have a look at my previous posts and I can tell you more if you need that info.
I remember my Yamaha S80, which I owned for 20 years being a bit noisy but still better than the Korg PA5X after just 6 months which is developing faults in many keys. Just awful for a price that could get you an excellent second hand U1 that will last you for the rest of your life!

There probably is quite a bit of value in the experience Kawai and Yamaha have making real pianos that they carry over into their piano mimicking products. I am not so sure other companies know what they are doing when it comes to weighted actions! Roland usually gets rave reviews. I don't see it or should I say "feel it" personally.

[Amwilburn]

After quite negative experiences with my Korg PA5X-88 and also a Roland RD 2000 I am weary of the everything in one solution + will be avoiding Fatar keybeds and probably anything non Kawai or non Yamaha based for the rest of my life after feeling financially burned with those boards.

There probably is quite a bit of value in the experience Kawai and Yamaha have making real pianos that they carry over into their piano mimicking products. I am not so sure other companies know what they are doing when it comes to weighted actions! Roland usually gets rave reviews. I don't see it or should I say "feel it" personally.

Well, it's not your imagination. What's often missing in these online reviews is the key speed; a lot of the Roland's get praised for their real feel keyboards heavy, weighted keys... but it's not actually the weight... it's the sluggishness. How many times a second can you repeat that key? Next time you're at a music store, try out the Korg LP180 key bed... one of the slowest I've ever seen. Fastest? CLP785/775, CVP809/805 (not the same, but same repeat speed). THe Roland F140/F130/F701 are also painfully slow (and not fully weighted, not even close. THe 'weight' people think they feel is because they're pushing the keys fast. Press slower, and sluggish keys feel lighter!

I dislike fatar keys, the action is noisy, and imprecise, and not particularly fast; but I can live with them (faster than the 2 snails I mentioned above).
Ironic you didn't like the RD2000 keys; those are the fastest Roland has ever made (and still nowhere near as good as the P515/CP88/CP4/CP5 keys I mentioned in the other post.) You should try one of the F130/F140/F701 or FP10/FP30/30x keys ... they're all the same (different weightings, but the same sluggish speed). That will probably amaze you in the range of key speed offerings. Incidentally, the fastest portable keys anywhere, still don't match up to the Clavinova 25cm wooden keys (the 4 models I mentioned above, as well as the CLP685/675). Once you play those, and then try a snail's pace keybed, you won't believe the difference.

Incidentally, the Casio PXS5000/6000/7000 I mentioned still aren't as fast as the Yamaha keybeds, but they are faster than everything else

But it's not your imagination. One of the reasons retailers like ours are really necessary to try these instruments out in person.
Mark