GENOS back up file name

[davidg]

Hi from a former GENOS owner.  I traded it for a CVP 809 because I could not get on too well with the GENOS keybed.  Anyway, many things on the GENOS (but certainly not all) are transferable to the CVP which is why I have posted here rather than on the CVP board.  I back up the CVP diligently at the start of each month but it has always puzzled me why the backup file (bup) always shows modified on "31/12/2018 23:31".  I am guessing this is the original filename created by Yamaha which includes some write protection (at least as regards the name only).  I draw some comfort from the fact that the file size increases month by month, but I would hate to find out only when I need to restore from a backup that all these months my backup has not properly been made.  Anyone else noticed this ?  David

[EileenL]

Hi David,
  I only have Genos but have never saved to a BUP file as this does not save everything. I also like to back up my performances in Midi Or Audio. For this I use a USB stick in the compartment under the keyboard. I copy everything to this that I do on user and then remove it from time to time and also back up on my computer. This way I am happy I have all things covered.

[Lee Batchelor]

I agree with Eileen's assessment.

I do periodic backups in the BUP format but as far as I know, the most important backup files are your custom styles, voices, and anything else you've designed for everyday use. Of course, registration backups are key. If the OS ever became corrupted, I'm sure you can reinstall it from the Yamaha site.

Eileen's method works well. I also put my Genos into USB mode (Playlist+Power On) and do my backups to my PC. That way, if the Genos ever got stolen or tampered with, I have "off-site" storage. I'm sure she does that too.

[davidg]

Thanks Eileen and Lee.  I back up to a USB too and then copy that to the cloud (using the USB in my laptop).  The BUP file is about 13MB.  Am I right in assuming that this BUP backup would include all the custom arrangements, styles and voices ?  I have a lot of these and would hate to have to try and re-create them. Thanks for your help. David

[Michael Trigoboff]

I only have Genos but have never saved to a BUP file as this does not save everything.

This is alarming! What doesn't get backed up in a .bup file?

[overover]

Hi all,

A .bup Backup file contains the following:

- Content of the internal User drive (on some models you can specify whether Audio files stored in the User drive should also be backed up)
- User-defined System settings
- User-defined MIDI settings
- User-defined Effect settings

Important: You cannot extract any data from .bup files, you can only (if necessary) read in the complete .bup file again (Restore). It should be noted that this will overwrite the current content of the User drive with the content stored in the .bup file (!)

In my opinion, the regular saving of .bup files can be dispensed with. Instead, the so-called "Setup Files" (System, MIDI and User Effect) and your own data should be backed up manually on a regular basis. (Older models also have a "Music Finder" Setup file.) Information on this can be found in the Reference Manual in the "Utility > Factory Reset/Backup > Backup/Restore" section.

With the Genos, it is best to back up the User drive directly to the computer in USB Storage Mode, similar to the contents of the internal hard drive on Tyros models. If you make a manual backup of the User drive data from the keyboard to the USB stick, this must be done separately for each file type, i.e. in the respective File Selection display (Styles, MIDI files, Registration Bank files, User Voice files, Audio files, text files and the already mentioned setup files).

Alternatively, one could use the Yamaha "MusicSoft Downloader" program (MSD) for backups (only available for Windows computers). This allows you to see/access all files in the User drive from the PC and copy data regardless of the file type. However, the MSD is more intended/suitable for smaller files, since the file transfer takes place here via the USB-MIDI protocol.


P.S.
In some cases it is not possible to save a .bup file with the internal Backup function (e.g. if there are too many files in the User drive or too many files in individual folders, or if the maximum allowed size of the .bup file would be exceeded). However, since, as already mentioned, you can/should save the Setup Files separately, this is not a major problem. It is important that you back up your data manually on a regular basis. The easiest way to do this is to work primarily with USB sticks and back them up regularly on the computer.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[davidg]

Hi Chris.

Thank you for your very comprehensive and helpful reply.  I wonder how many people (like me) have backed up a bup file and slept soundly thinking they have all their registrations, etc safely stored.  Looking a little more closely at the reference manual it says:

"All settings and data in the User memory of this instrument (except for protected Song) are saved to the USB flash
drive as a single file named "CVP-809.bup" or "CVP-805.bup."

Now, when I read this I incorrectly assumed "all settings and data" meant exactly that - including all registrations, etc.

It is only when you read on further under "Set Up Files" (a strange heading when you are looking to back up something) that you find the information you kindly pointed out.

Anyway, I have been playing around this morning with backing up.

Firstly, I backed up on to a USB using (as you suggested) "System, Midi and User Effect".  This produces three files identifiable against those headings with extensions "msu, ssu and eff" respectively.  They are not very large, about 120kb in total.

Secondly, I needed to back up all my registrations which were in the "user" memory - i.e. the internal CVP [or Genos] memory.  There are a couple of hundred of these in three folders.  I found the easiest way to do this was to use the copy and paste function (for the folders) pasting into the usb.  This took three or four minutes to execute.  I now see on the usb (both on the CVP and my PC) all the registration folders and files.  One way or another I now feel reasonably comfortable I have everything backed up ... hopefully !

Finally, I will keep using registrations on the user memory rather than the USB. Whilst I see the value of operating off the USB, all my registrations are midi linked to the pdf sheet music in Mobile sheets and I do not want to go back and re-link them all.  I will just make regular registration backups on the USB.

The wonderful thing about this forum is that you are always learning something, and we should all be very grateful that people like you are prepared to spare their expertise and time, so thank you very much.

Kind regards,

David

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes, thank you Chris. I agree that the .bup file seems redundant.

I have more faith in placing the Genos in USB mode and just copying all the primary files to my PC. Yamaha's OS seems to preclude any thoughts of using conventional backup methodology. For example, in Windows you can do an image or clone backup. Both methods capture the C drive as is, and in the event of a total loss, you replace the C drive, restore the data from the image or clone backup, and you're done. Judging from the OS updates on the Genos, it's not as straight forward.

Here is a screen capture of my Genos back in USB mode. I'm sure everyone else has done this.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Michael Trigoboff]

A .bup Backup file contains the following:

- Content of the internal User drive (on some models you can specify whether Audio files stored in the User drive should also be backed up)
- User-defined System settings
- User-defined MIDI settings
- User-defined Effect settings

From what you say, it sounds like everything on a Genos is backed up in a .bup file. Is there something specific you know about that would not be backed up? Where would that have been if not on the internal user drive?

I understand that you can't extract individual items from a .bup file; you can only restore the entire .bup file to a Genos. But that's not the same thing as saying those items were not backed up.

The details of this are very important. I would like to understand the situation precisely.

[overover]

Hi Michael,

What is NOT backed up via the internal Backup function is the content of the NAND Flash Expansion Memory, i.e. the wave data belonging to the currently installed Expansion Packs. (The content of the Expansion Memory CANNOT be saved by the user. And, of course, data on connected USB sticks is NOT backed up via the internal Backup function.

All User drive data including the folder "Expansion" (in which all data belonging to the installed packs such as styles, registrations or voice files (.vce) are located) are saved with a .bup file.

By the way, with Tyros models, the internal User drive is also backed up via the internal Backup function, but it is only a few MB (megabytes!) in size. However, the internal hard drive is NOT backed up in this way, but must be backed up manually. The easiest way to do this is via the USB storage mode. (With Tyros models you use it to access the Tyros hard disk, NOT the User drive, as with the Genos.) Possibly Eileen meant "a .bup file does not contain all the important data", which is the case with the Tyros.

As already mentioned, there can be problems with the internal Backup function if, for example, there are too many files in a folder/subfolder or if a certain maximum size is exceeded (which I am not aware of). As mentioned, I do NOT recommend saving .bup files continuously, but instead copying your files manually to the computer in USB Storage Mode (or copying them to the USB stick in the respective File Selection display and then copying them from there to the computer). And please back up the "Setup Files" mentioned from time to time.


Best regards,
Chris

[Michael Trigoboff]

Let's say that I want to put everything that I currently have on my Genos onto a brand new one. If I restore a backup (a .bup file) to the new Genos and then use YEM to load my expansion pack install file (which is saved on my computer) onto it, have I made an exact copy of my current Genos? If not, what's missing?

In other words, do the YEM expansion pack install file and the .bup file contain a complete backup of everything on a Genos?

Thanks...

[Michael Trigoboff]

I'm asking the question in my previous message because that is how I currently have my Genos backed up.

I understand that other people around here prefer the USB file copy method, and I can see the advantages of it. But what I'm doing (the .bup file + the YEM install file) is easier and quicker, and it fits my personal priorities better.

I'm concerned, however, that what I'm doing might not be a complete backup. I'm hoping that some expert around here can tell me whether it is or not.

[overover]

Let's say that I want to put everything that I currently have on my Genos onto a brand new one. If I restore a backup (a .bup file) to the new Genos and then use YEM to load my expansion pack install file (which is saved on my computer) onto it, have I made an exact copy of my current Genos? If not, what's missing?

In other words, do the YEM expansion pack install file and the .bup file contain a complete backup of everything on a Genos?

Thanks...

Hi Michael,

As already mentioned, the .bup file contains all storable user-defined settings (System Setup, MIDI Setup and User Effects) as well as the contents of the User drive.

If you only use "now free" Yamaha expansion packs (.cpf) or unprotected .ppf packs, you can use the original pack install file (.cpi or .ppi) to install the expansion content directly on another Genos.

Note: The current "now free" Yamaha expansion packs come as protected (encrypted) .cpf files, but can be installed on all Genos keyboards (any Genos Instrument Info file). However, third-party packs (e.g. CMS Sounddesign) that come in protected .cpf format only work on EXACTLY ONE Genos (namely the one for whose Instrument Info file the pack was originally purchased). The latter packs CANNOT be installed on another Genos, i.e. the original .cpi file could then NOT be loaded.

By the way, when you make Audio Multi recordings on the Genos, this data is stored in a hidden folder "AUDIOREC.ROOT" in the User drive. This folder is also displayed (and can be backed up) in USB Storage Mode if the display of hidden files/folders is activated on the computer (which is usually the case with professionals anyway ).

Be sure to read page 158 of Genos Reference Manual V2.10 (Backup/Restore). There you will find important information about the Backup function, e.g. Audio files are only backed up if the "Include Audio files" checkbox is ticked. The most important point there, however, is the note "If the total size of the target data for backup exceeds 3.9 GB (excluding Audio files), the backup function is not available." However, the User drive is 58 GB in size. Due to the limitations of the Backup function mentioned, I therefore recommend the copy method for ongoing backup (plus manual backup of the Setup files).


Best regards,
Chris

[overover]

I'm asking the question in my previous message because that is how I currently have my Genos backed up.

I understand that other people around here prefer the USB file copy method, and I can see the advantages of it. But what I'm doing (the .bup file + the YEM install file) is easier and quicker, and it fits my personal priorities better.

I'm concerned, however, that what I'm doing might not be a complete backup. I'm hoping that some expert around here can tell me whether it is or not.

Hi Michael,

The Genos.bup file plus the current Pack Install file (.cpi) IS a full backup, to be clear. However, these files can only be restored on a Genos with the same firmware (or higher), i.e. under no circumstances on a Genos successor. In addition, due to the restrictions described above, it may happen that the Backup function cannot be used at all (i.e. it is not possible to save the .bup file).

It is essential that you also have copies of all files on the Genos (e.g. Styles, MIDI files, Registrations, etc.) as well as copies of the Pack Project files (.cpf/.ppf).


Best regards,
Chris

[Michael Trigoboff]

Thanks, Chris.

I will switch over to USB backup if I cross over the lines you have so clearly delineated. I really appreciate the detailed information you provided.

[pjd]

By the way, when you make Audio Multi recordings on the Genos, this data is stored in a hidden folder "AUDIOREC.ROOT" in the User drive. This folder is also displayed (and can be backed up) in USB Storage Mode if the display of hidden files/folders is activated on the computer (which is usually the case with professionals anyway ).

Be sure to read page 158 of Genos Reference Manual V2.10 (Backup/Restore). There you will find important information about the Backup function, e.g. Audio files are only backed up if the "Include Audio files" checkbox is ticked. The most important point there, however, is the note "If the total size of the target data for backup exceeds 3.9 GB (excluding Audio files), the backup function is not available." However, the User drive is 58 GB in size. Due to the limitations of the Backup function mentioned, I therefore recommend the copy method for ongoing backup (plus manual backup of the Setup files).

Chris did a super job. Thanks, Chris!

If you're like me, you have a zillion audio files (backing tracks, etc.) and exceed the backup limitations. The recordings in AUDIOREC.ROOT are easy to miss when backing up manually. I keep Audio Multi recordings long term and come back to them from time to time. In which case, they need to be backed up, too.

Thanks, again -- pj