New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[Jeff Hollande]

Very good advise, Chris !

At least a home player should first try out your suggestions as far as the original Yamaha keyboard speakers are concerned, IMO.

Best wishes,

JH

[BogdanH]

..perhaps it should be a good idea to change the Genos "mickey mouse" ie. GNS-MS01 speakers to...

Disclaimer: I haven't (couldn't) decide for external speakers yet.
I've watched many reviews and at this price range, my choice will probably be KRK Rokit 5-G4 (or Presonus Eris E5 as second choice).
My conclusion is, that all these (similar priced) 5" active monitors sound quite similar -which is to be expected. So it comes down to built & material quality (brand we trust) and features we prefer -and many times minor details can matter a lot!
Example: most active monitors have "auto-standby" feature. That is, if there's no signal after certain period of time, speaker goes into standby and when we start playing again, speaker turns back on. The problem is (or can be), there's certain delay before speaker is ready again -this is problem for some, but not for others.

What I like about KRK (besides hopefully sounding good as they say) is:
-standby time can be adjusted (or disabled)
-it has class D amplifier built in (less power draw and less heat dissipated  than class A/B amplifier -sound quality pretty much the same, though)
-bass vent is on front side (bass comes directly to listener and so speaker position doesn't matter much)

What I dislike:
-yellow speaker membranes,
-price... one should always complain about that, right? 

As other have mentioned, connecting unbalanced output to balanced input isn't a problem if cables are not too long (say, 2-3m).

Finally... I think GNS-MS01 can't be compared to stereo studio monitors. In case of GNS-MS01, we always hear bass from direction where subwoofer is placed -regardless of how much L or R  bass (drum, piano, etc.) is defined inside style.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

When I am reading your Yamaha's original external keyboard speakers' comments ( Tyros and Genos ), I wonder why Yamaha are still selling these kind of speakers whilst Yamaha are producing and selling different, high quality speakers ?

JH

[DerekA]

However as with any audio backing, the novelty for me wore off rather quickly once I had heard a selection of the styles and a few videos using this feature. Real performances of solo instruments such as harmonica and sax in the intros and endings clearly give that 'whooo' factor the first time you hear them, but seriously I cannot see that novelty lasting very long. However if there's some highly intelligent  arranging that completely changes those solo lines then it would be interesting.

I agree. I can see after a (short) while any complex audio phrases in the backing would become irritating. On the Genos, I often switch off overly fiddly or noticeable style parts.

[kiplis]

Hi all, and thank you for your comments, I agree with all of you.

I have used GNS-MS01 now for three years. Before that I had similar boxes for Tyros 5. I have also had separate studio monitors in the past for Tyros 3 and Ketron.
The only reason to use mickey mouse speakers is, that they are modest in size, and easy to place on top of the instrument. And yes, I have adjusted the EQ to my liking, and added already a 8" sub-woofer, so now my "boom" is right. How ever, the instruments does not sound quite right from the small "ears". That is why I am looking for studio monitors.

[Jeff Hollande]

IMHO the present Tyros and Genos satelittes are not looking bad on the instrument and  ... a woofer ... is needed.

Maybe Yamaha should redesign the complete speaker set after 20 years and improve the sound quality ? Expensive set, I guess.

JH

[kiplis]

So, KRK ROKIT RP5 G4 Studio Monitors are ordered, and on their way.
I will let you know my experience about them soonest 

[BogdanH]

Congrats for your purchase.. I really hope you won't regret.
Yes, please let us know what your impression is!

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

https://www.ketron.it/prodotto/event#1617885421095-217f0beb-a7cf

Hi Guys :

This morning I opened the above mentioned English ( see : Inglese ) Event Manual.
This arranger does not have multipads, am I wrong ? 

Best regards, JH

[EileenL]

I find the screen a little messy. No dedicated registration button. No Multi Pads. Only Two right hand voices. Definitely not for me.

[kiplis]

Considering preliminary information, the price may not be justified, IMHO...
The market for this keyboard may be quite limited, specially if you think about
the dealer network and service.

While waiting news from Yamaha (or perhaps one should take a look at Korg Pa5x).

Take care

-Kiplis-

[jwyvern]

If you read page 13 it tells you the following:

EVENT allows you to play in real time up to three parts simultaneously (VOICE 1, VOICE 2
and DRAWBAR) on the right side with the split point active, or across the entire range of the
keyboards with split deactivated, i.e., in PIANIST mode. The VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 parts are
made up of one to three sounds each, thanks to three freely assignable oscillators per voice
part. The DRAWBAR voice is dedicated exclusively to the organ sound and can be played in
conjunction with the VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 parts – that is 7 lead voices in total!

So it does NOT have "only" 2 voices like the older PSR's but is capable of layering more sounds to right of split than Genos.
Later it goes on to say that 3x Lower voices to left of split are also available, so the overall layering possibilities are way above the capability of Genos. I haven't gone any further (eg. looking into the equivalent of pads) because I am not currently so interested in the Ketron, but anyone who is genuinely interested, should read the manual carefully to determine what it really is capable of.

John

[soundphase]

I don't know if it's exactly the same topic, but a Genos voice has 8 layers in YEM. Each layer can be associated with a sound. So 4 * 8 layers simultaneously for left and right hands

[Sokratis1974]

Hello.
I am following the discussion that is evolves but I do not want (for many reasons) to intervene. But because sometimes things are said that are not true, I have to say certain things.

1) The Event has two separate sections of sounds on the Right hand: VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 and a separate digital Full DRAWBAR Organ on each VOICE. Each VOICE has up to 3 sounds (Multisample) where each has up to 4 stereo or mono layers so we have in total up to 12 velocity layers per VOICE.
Of course, Genos (and Yamaha in general) has a much more powerful sound engine when it comes to layers. Yamaha doesn't only have 8 layers as you said before, but it has 8 Elements (Oscillator) where theoretically we have no limitation in layers, i.e., up to 128 layers per Element.
And I use the term (theoretically) because practically it is impossible because polyphony will not hold.
But the Yamaha does not have an onboard sampler and those of us who use it know very well that it is unthinkable for an instrument like the Genos not to have an onboard sampler. This means that even if there is an error in a sample, all the work must be done from the beginning (correction in YEM and package export and installation again in Genos.

2) Event has a Registration button just to enter the registration section because everything else is done virtually from the screen.
Thanks.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Sokratis :

Many thanks for your feedback.

We all have to wait for the Genos' successor before we are comparing apples and oranges ( 2017 / 2023 ).
BTW, up to now it looks like the Event is not in the hands of the endusers yet !

Apparently we might expect the new high end Yamaha arranger at the end of 2023, early 2024.
Then it might be the right time to analyze and compare both competitive arrangers, IMHO. Right ?

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan

[Duffy]

Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan

It may help to say  that I have a very old Ketron (Solton) MS 40 module  (about 25 years old) and, for one right hand voice,  I have it programmed with 4 voices to play Big orchestral sounds with lots of strings and I can assure you that modern keyboards, Yamaha Genso, Korg, even my beloved Technics KN 7000 cannot come near these sounds. Not wise to compare something you know to something unknown.  Ketron really are very clever in some ways so don't underestimate what you can do with 2 voices.

[Mark]

AJ has published some in-depth tutorials about Event, the 3rd one explains exactly what is Voice and shows the voice editor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnzKWGEIHOQ

It looks like a Voice in Ketron's defiition is a combination of Yamaha's voices (R1, R2, etc). The Voice is comprised of sounds (so Ketron's 'sound' is like a Yammie's Voice )
Ketron also allows setting various parameters  on each sound - key ranges, velocity ranges, etc.
Very convenient I must say...

[Sokratis1974]

Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan

Ok, I'll give an example. In Genos we have the Voice section where there are presets or user (expansion) sounds. Each Voice requires one or more multisamples to play. Genos theoretically has tremendous potential that I don't need to elaborate on.
So we place these Voice (in Genos) in 4 separate OTS where we can recall them at any time in a style. But beyond the 4 OTS, we can open the list of Voice and choose another Voice regardless of the ones we have stored in the OTS. So in Genos we can choose one sound at a time. In the Event, however, we can choose two different Voice at the same time and independently from the 4 Voice that can be saved here as well in each style. We also have two separate volume sliders for each sound.
Also, in the three sounds I mentioned before about the Event, in essence I mean that it contains 3 multisamples where in the Event they are called sounds.
I hope I didn't confuse you.

[Jeff Hollande]

Is the Event a real plug and play instrument ?

Watching AJ's last video ( #3 ), I have the impression the Event is not.  Am I wrong ?

JH

[BogdanH]

Thanks again Sokratis
confused?.. heheh.. well, yes 
I think I need to wait for some video where I can see and hear what's all about -is the only way I can put pieces together in my head. And most important, so I can understand the benefits and (maybe) downsides.

Regards,
Bogdan

[Duffy]

Is the Event a real plug and play instrument ?

Watching AJ's last video ( #3 ), I have the impression the Event is not.  Am I wrong ?

JH

I would be very surprised if it isn't Jeff.
I have 2 Ketron / Solton products and, like any other arranger, you can press a voice or press a style, or press a registration and play the instrument immediately
The instrument will have 4 one touch settings for each style, which you will be able to change if you don't like them and so really, what is the difference from playing a Yamaha?
The big difference on the Event, will be the amount by which you can change things to your own liking. Some of these, you can do whilst you are still playing.
I have not seen the Event but, I am sure that you will be able to switch it on, choose a style and play it like any arranger without any problems.  Should be good.

[Jeff Hollande]

After reading all the information and comments in this thread, I have decided there is no reason for me to leave Yamaha.

Why should I kill a winning horse after more than 22 years ?

JH

[Sokratis1974]

 Administrators forgive me. I think I haven't promoted the Event. I have only given information when asked. I just wanted you to see a video of me playing Live with the Event. My son (cameraman) also took some shots of Genos next to me.
Thank you
https://youtu.be/XowEx1G6HP0

[ton37]

..
............
Why should I kill a winning horse after more than 22 years ?

JH

Mmmm...because one  doubt if such an old horse will still winn..?

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Ton :

I am an old horse too ...

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

...I just wanted you to see a video of me playing Live with the Event....

Nice playing and good piano sound.
Thank you for sharing.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

I agree with you Sokratis presented us a nice piece of piano music here.

It looks to me the Event is not such an easy instrument to play though.
Sokratis is continuously touching knobs and sliders to change voices and other functions ( while he is playing ).

In other words it might take a lot of time before a player, ( who is not used to play a Ketron ), is capable to manage and operate this high end keyboard, IMHO.

JH

[BogdanH]

hi Jeff,
Yes, I noticed that too! -I think that's just his way of playing (continuously adjusting "just a little") 

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

Good to hear you noticed that too. Thank you !
The volume balance between the backing tracks ( style ) and the piano voice also needed an adjustment, IMO.

In general the Event has a nice sound quality but it is not a typical midi instrument like a Korg or/and a Yamaha.
The Event is mainly an audio arranger. That might be the answer why this arranger needs adjustment continuously ? I do not know ... I am not an expert at all. 

Approx. 6 years ago Yamaha ended their audio styles' experiment and finally came back with midi styles only. No need to explain the advantage of midi, I guess.

Anyway, for me the Event is not a real plug and play arranger as far as I have heard and seen up to now ... but who am I ?

Best regards, JH