New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[BogdanH]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. As soon Genos was released, R&D team started to work on it's successor -it's nothing like "let's wait and see see what Korg does and we make it better". At the time Pa5X came to market, Yamaha probably already had "a working" example of next keyboard on the desk. That is, all fundamental decisions were already made -changing them would mean throwing away years of work and tons of money.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Delivery status of Event has changed at Thomann from "2-3 weeks" to "Available in several months" (same as for Korg Pa5X now).

Hey Bogdan :

The ongoing low supply of parts might be the reason of the long delay ( Ketron and Korg ) ?
Perhaps Yamaha are dealing with the same problem, who knows.

JH

[soundphase]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. As soon Genos was released, R&D team started to work on it's successor -it's nothing like "let's wait and see see what Korg does and we make it better". At the time Pa5X came to market, Yamaha probably already had "a working" example of next keyboard on the desk. That is, all fundamental decisions were already made -changing them would mean throwing away years of work and tons of money.

Bogdan

It takes a long time to industrialise the manufacture of a motherboard and such specific components. This explains why when the keyboard came out, it seemed to us to use old generation components.
So I think they are working on several generations of prototypes simultaneously to test innovative solutions. They didn't wait for the Genos release to have roadmaps and prototypes for Genos 2.
The covid and the new economic situation certainly changed planned roadmaps.

But the release of the ELA-1 is a good sign. This means that Yamaha still considers these specific instruments worth selling.

[ton37]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. As soon Genos was released, R&D team started to work on it's successor -it's nothing like "let's wait and see see what Korg does and we make it better". At the time Pa5X came to market, Yamaha probably already had "a working" example of next keyboard on the desk. That is, all fundamental decisions were already made -changing them would mean throwing away years of work and tons of money.

Bogdan

Thnx for your reply: I don't mean 'from scratch'. It is only logical/commercial, if you have not put your product on the market yet, to investigate whether you can make some adjustments. Something like: hey, that's smart of our competitor: see if we can implement something like this here too? So a kind of adjustments that can be implemented in the prototype without too much effort. Nothing wrong with that in itself, of course. Sort or advancing insight. Common in 'competing' products.

[Jeff Hollande]

IMHO Yamaha will follow their own strategy to develop their new high end arranger keyboard. Nothing else.

Being the Market Leader for more than 20 years,  Yamaha exactly know what the enduser needs and wants.

They are fully aware of what needs to be done to improve and to maintain their present #1 worldwide position and reputation.

Of course it is always interesting and useful for Yamaha to know what is going on in this market but they always will go their own way.

Best wishes, JH

[Henni]

For those who want to know more: (some of the very last videos listed are re-posted so you can read the comments in the subtitles like Mike correctly suggested)

1. Settings
2. Subtitles
3. Auto
4. English


https://youtu.be/ZAtF67PcZrM

https://youtu.be/cTuuomWWB34

https://youtu.be/CQS1njl8JM4

https://youtu.be/HJDvbB7Yp0E

https://youtu.be/My1Az0xDqsw

https://youtu.be/uki-bcmmsIg

https://youtu.be/QScDR98EKNY

https://youtu.be/ioBCBakUGjg

https://youtu.be/W9COE0QFkjU

https://youtu.be/QScDR98EKNY

Ketron learned from Yamaha. 1st Time ever they keep us in the dark till the very end. And then they are in no rush to deplete their current stocks either. If you want one, get in the queue! It is just THAT good! None of the demos of the other models impress me any longer...

[EileenL]

Well so far Ketron has not impressed me with any of its Demo's.

[Jeff Hollande]

I am not impressed by Henni's video's either. 
I do not speak Italian and have no clue what this gentleman is doing or explaining.

Wished there was at least an English translation/subtitling though. 

JH

[Henni]

Jeff,

Follow my advice. Open the settings menu at the right hand bottom of utube. Select CC (Subtitles). Click on the arrow. Select Auto translate. a Menu pops up with all the languages. Select English. Now everything that is being said is printed in English on the bottom of your screen.

Wow, coming from the Audya & after playing with BIAB I am super impressed by this product. There is a huge quality difference in the style parts. Sound much, much more real.

But hey, that's just me...

[rphillipchuk]

I am not impressed by Henni's video's either. 
I do not speak Italian and have no clue what this gentleman is doing or explaining.

Wished there was at least an English translation/subtitling though. 

JH

Agreed,  Ketron can do a lot better if there was more organized English Tutes ...... Instead of screenshots, show a video of what you are attempting to do and have a video showing you from the back on which buttons  to press and where they are !!!!

I am so close to buy one but what is holding me back is the complete vagueness of instructions........ It's not like I can purchase this from my local music store and if I cannot understand it, I can easily return or trade !

It just baffles me why Mr Ketron is not making it a priority to produce English Professional Videos right at the start of their Campaign.

A good example of how to create a Video Tutorial is how Korg is handling this...

https://www.korg.com/caen/products/synthesizers/pa5x/videos.php

Their videos directly from Korg are outstanding.!!!!

Henni, Please show me how to use the english sub titles on the last 5 Videos..... Would love to read the english Sub Titles

[travlin-easy]

I have only played a Ketron once, and for just about a half-hour. To me, most of the voices sounded thin, the drums were loud and harsh, and the guitars were dreadful at best. For the most part, nothing has really changed with the newer models. Now, my dear departed friend, Don Mason, was able to tune the Ketron guitars a bit to achieve more realism, however, he was never able to get them to sound as good as Yamaha's guitars right out of the box. For me, I'll stick with Yamaha until the day I die, which is, unfortunately, not that far away.

One of the major problems with Ketron is support, which in the US is only available through one person, AJ. He's a nice person, I have known him for many years, but he can be somewhat difficult to get in touch with if you have a problem. There are no factory authorized service centers here in the US, other than sending the keyboard to AJ for repairs, which could be a lengthy process as he is the sole support person here. I don't know about Ketron support in other parts of the world, but I seriously doubt that there are a lot of support centers anywhere. With Yamaha, Korg and Roland, there are a large numbers of factory authorized repair centers located throughout the world, turn around time is usually fairly quick, and you can reach the representative on the telephone during normal working hours. For me, the  decision to stick with Yamaha is an easy one.

Good luck, on whatever you decide upon,

Gary (The old codger.)

[Henni]

Henni, Please show me how to use the english sub titles on the last 5 Videos..... Would love to read the english Sub Titles

Okay.

1. Open this link

https://youtu.be/QScDR98EKNY

2. Click on the gear icon right bottom of screen which says "settings".

3. Select subtitles/cc

4. Select Italian(auto-generated)

5. Select subtitles/cc again.

6. Select "auto-translate"

7. Select "English"

8. Watch the video.

Please note: None of these videos were made by Ketron. They were made by users. Big difference...

The first few videos demonstrate how styles sounded on the SD9 and BK9. Then note the difference when upgraded to the Event. Now tell me again there is not a HUGE difference in sound quality!

As for support, with all my fiddling I completely messed up my HDD on my Audya. Withing days I received  two new CDs by courier which I used to re-load my HDD which restored my Audya back to normal. Note, WITHIN DAYS! And me being in South Africa! Now tell me same on any other product - I am not stupid as I read here on a daily basis.

Next I destroyed my HD by playing my Audya on my lap whilst keeping tempo with my feet shaking the arranger violently as I did so. Again, within two to three days a new solid state HDD was couriered to me which solved my problem. Please DON'T tell me about poor Ketron service as that is nothing but a big lie!

My Audya topic on the SynthZone forumn now has nearly two and a half million views - there is still HUGE interest in this product! There is NOTHING wrong with Ketron or their products. I speak from first hand experience.

[rphillipchuk]

Okay.

1. Open this link

https://youtu.be/QScDR98EKNY

2. Click on the gear icon right bottom of screen which says "settings".

3. Select subtitles/cc

4. Select Italian(auto-generated)

5. Select subtitles/cc again.

6. Select "English"

7. Watch the video.

Brilliant !!!  I never knew how to do this !

Thanks Henni

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Henni :

Thank you so much for the English subtitling instructions !

You are very familiar with Audya / Ketron.
Most of us are not and they might it find very hard to say goodbye to Yamaha and go for an Italian brand.

It looks like you have made your decision yet and order an expensive Event in the near future, right ?

What about the Ketron's after sales service in your country, South Africa ?

Best regards, JH

[Henni]

Hi Jeff,

I will purchase my Event direct from Ketron or AJ. No Ketron service or agents in South Africa to my knowledge. That's what made their quick response to my problems so outstanding.

Such things do not bother me at all. As long as they react to my my problem from WHERE EVER, I am happy. And I have truly been happy with my Audya.

Cheers,

Henni

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Henni :

Thank you for your reaction.

I understand there is no Ketron dealer nor a Ketron service centre in your country, South Africa, am I right ?

Are you sure you can buy directly from the manufacturer Ketron in Italy ?

Will Ketron Italy not charge you the insured transport costs from Italy to South Africa ?

What about import duties and extra tax ?

Do you have to send your Event to Italy ( and back to S. Africa ), at the expense of Ketron, in case of problems during the warranty period ?

What happens after the warranty period ?

IMHO it all sounds like a very risky and a very expensive transaction. Am I wrong ?

Best regards, JH

 

[Henni]

Hi Jeff,

Suppliers:

1. Ketron (they did supply the Audya back then, not sure they'll do same for Event).

2. AJ - I trust him 100% and he always delivers on his promises, even to his own disadvantage.

3. Frank - everyone talks VERY good about him.

Yes, I will pay for transport, import etc. But most of the above will supply at discounted price, I'm rather sure of this. This should make up for it. Never seen a Ketron product in any music store in South Africa as yet.

Note: If you search the net you can i.e. purchase a brand new Genos at a fraction of what you'll pay at the music store. I've seen so for myself.

No, I do not foresee any need for the product to be sent back for warranty issues. And if the need should arise, surely that's not at all impossible to arrange.

Cheers,

Henni

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Henni :

Buying a Yamaha or a Korg high end arranger keyboard in South Africa might be more expensive ( ? ) but a lot easier and less risky to find, right ? 

I have been told Frank ( USA ) is not selling Ketron. AJ might be the only supplier in the US. Plse read Gary's comments.

Last but not least I wish you good luck and and a lot of fun with your new Event. 

Apparently the Event's delivery has been postponed for a couple of months. 
Perhaps Sokratis can tell you more about the present delay's situation.

Best regards, JH

[Henni]

Wow!!! What an upgrade from Ketron's previous best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyII8mJzgPI

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

IMHO this is a " home player " demo, right ?

It looks like there is no much difference between the voice sound quality ( e.g. the sax voice ) of the Event and the SD9 of Ketron.
Being a guitar player I am not so impressed by the guitar voice sound quality. I prefer Yamaha's. A very personal opinion though.

For those who want to buy a new high end keyboard soon it will not be easy to make the right choice, I guess. A PA5X or an Event ?

If I had to decide, I would wait for Yamaha's Genos2 first before making any decision. 
It is a matter of time and patience.

Best wishes, JH

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

There is no doubt that the ketron has top quality sound as it is audio based. Must have midi as well.
The ketron is more for the 60's and 70's Generation and beyond as i have heard  rock and Earth ,Wind & Fire styles. Nice.
It does sound a little toppy on the drums, but that maybe a live style when hearing the Dire Straights demo. I suppose you can have live and studio styles then?.
My question to Socraties is ---- Would the Ketron  be suited better for players who own Cubase or similar and to work more with vst as all is Audio mainly.
I think the Genos is still tops as you can do almost everthing you want with it, but the Ketron has some nice sounds in there.

I will hang on to the Genos until another arrives because Yamaha will up their game and for UK owners Yamaha are easy to contact.
I do not understand  why the Ketron is not widley available in all countries with backup if it is that good .
My pennies worth here.


All the best
John

[Lee Batchelor]

Keep in mind folks, all these demos are heard through YouTube, where the sound is compressed and at a wide range of EQ and volume levels. It's basically an unreliable source in which to judge any musical instrument - Genos included.

The Event has some really nice styles but it's a long way from topping the Genos on the solo instruments. They sound very dated to me. Ketron needs a professional like Baartmans to demo the Event through their website, where they have control over the sound compression and EQ. After that, if they want to recoup their investment, set up a huge dealer network, not just some wee corner in Europe! I'll wait for G2 😀.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Lee :

I am convinced you made the right decision.👍

Waiting for the Genos2 is the best option to make the right choice.

We already know which high end arranger competitors will launch in a couple of months but Yamaha's new baby is not born yet and the public knows nothing at all yet, not even the baby's name.

Best regards, JH

[EileenL]

We all know that we will not hear a peep from Yamaha until it is almost ready to launch and that is usually around October time.

[mikf]

I do not understand  why the Ketron is not widley available in all countries with backup if it is that good .
My pennies worth here.

They are a small company and just don't have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks. Maybe they will get there but I doubt it because that takes so much capital and time. The shareholders may be happy to stay as they are rather than invest at big risk to compete toe to toe with the giants, or they may hope they get acquired by a mega Corp by having desirable technology or products .... That's the way it works.
Mike

[RoyB]

I do not understand  why the Ketron is not widley available in all countries with backup if it is that good .

They are a small company and just don't have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks. Maybe they will get there but I doubt it because that takes so much capital and time. The shareholders may be happy to stay as they are rather than invest at big risk to compete toe to toe with the giants, or they may hope they get acquired by a mega Corp by having desirable technology or products .... That's the way it works.
Mike

I used to have a GEM WK4 Arranger from Italian manufacturer General Music. General Music I believe were, at the time, probably a bigger company and had a wider presence than Ketron, and its electric pianos were widely used by some top professionals, but it suffered from the same limitations of poor distribution and dealership network as Ketron. Despite producing some fantastic and highly regarded products, as we know, General Music are no more.

[mikf]

General Music may be the perfect example of how small or moderate size companies can get into serious trouble if they try to expand products and global presence too quickly without having access to adequate resources. I'm sure Ketron are well aware of what happened to General Music, especially since the two companies were only about 60 miles apart.
BTW.. a small Finish company called Soundion raised funds to buy the rights from receivers to the General Music brands and technology and is currently marketing them.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

From Mike,

They are a small company and just don't have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks.

And yet they want to compete with the big guys. They should do it right or go home 😀.

[mikf]

But are doing it right Lee, because they have been in business doing it their way for a long time. It may not suit everybody but it obviously works for them. Trying to emulate Yamaha or Korg business model without having Yamaha or Korg  resources would likely bankrupt them in a heartbeat.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Mike.

It's still unfortunate that Ketron can produce a decent keyboard that "could" satisfy thousands of people, if only those people could get one. I'm still a Yamaha fan but there is likely a huge market for the Event. The good news is, it will keep Yamaha on their toes. They won't let a tiny company out-do them on the arranger front.