Integrating an SX900 into a DAW using MIDI-over-USB - how does it work?

[Lije Baley]

Hello!

This topic is something of a conundrum to me so I hope you can explain some things to me. I own a Yamaha PSR-SX900 but I think the topic is applicable to many other instruments.

First, let me tell you what I do know about it:
1) SX900 can be connected to a PC running a DAW program using a single USB cable.
2) SX900 can both send and receive MIDI data using a single USB cable.
3) SX900 cannot send nor receive audio data through USB. In other words, it cannot function as a USB audio interface.
4) I can create a multi-track session on the SX900 using it's sequencer, save the data as MIDI onto a USB flash drive, plug the drive in a PC and load the MIDI file into a DAW program.

What happens then?

This is what I'd like to know:
A) when I use a DAW to play the MIDI file, is the data decoded/reproduced using the sound generator contained within the DAW or the SX900? I assume it is the SX900 that decodes the data because for the DAW to do it, it would need to have the exact same sound engine otherwise the specific voices would sound different from the SX900, right?
B) But here's the problem! If the MIDI data is decoded by the SX900, can you actually hear the data through the PC and/or DAW or just through the SX900? You see, if a DAW is sending MIDI over USB for the SX900 to decode it and create sound or "audio", then that SX900 would need to send that audio back to the PC using the same USB connection and as we know, the SX900 cannot send audio through USB.
C) Let's assume I've learned all of this and reached a point where it's now time to edit the tracks in the DAW program. Because the tracks are still in MIDI, can I convert them to audio and is the SX900 sound engine used for this task?

I really hope someone can help.

Cheers - Antun

[DerekA]

When you play back the MIDI file in the DAW, each track has its assigned MIDI channel. The notes will play on whatever device(s) you have listening on that same channel.

So if your melody line is on MIDI channel 1, and you have a VST assigned to channel 1, then the VST will play the notes. If your SX900 is attached, and listening to channel 1, then it will play on the SX900. If the MIDI was recorded from the SX900 in the first place, it will contain all the SY*** to set up the voice, effects, etc on the part that's listening.

But as you suspected, it will play via the SX900 audio. Unless you have connected audio OUT on the SX900 to your PC, you won't hear it playing on your PC.

If you want to use the track in the DAW as an audio track, and you don't want to record audio within the DAW, you could record the SX900 audio using the onboard SX900 audio recorder then load that file up into your PC.

[Lije Baley]

When you play back the MIDI file in the DAW, each track has its assigned MIDI channel. The notes will play on whatever device(s) you have listening on that same channel.

So if your melody line is on MIDI channel 1, and you have a VST assigned to channel 1, then the VST will play the notes. If your SX900 is attached, and listening to channel 1, then it will play on the SX900. If the MIDI was recorded from the SX900 in the first place, it will contain all the SY*** to set up the voice, effects, etc on the part that's listening.

But as you suspected, it will play via the SX900 audio. Unless you have connected audio OUT on the SX900 to your PC, you won't hear it playing on your PC.

If you want to use the track in the DAW as an audio track, and you don't want to record audio within the DAW, you could record the SX900 audio using the onboard SX900 audio recorder then load that file up into your PC.

Hi Derek!

Thank you very much for the reply! There really is so much to learn. I have not even heard of the "SY***" file! It does make total sense, of course, because how else would the SX900 know which voices to use.

I have two more questions, if you don't mind.

First, would this SY*** file contain data with regards to the voice chosen even if that voice is an expansion voice or rather, an additional sample added by the user?

Second, let's assume that I load a MIDI multi-track session recorded on the SX900 to a DAW. Let's also assume I add an additional track containing audio that's been recorded using a microphone. Let's say I have 16 tracks of MIDI and a single track of audio.

Is there no way to convert these 16 MIDI tracks to audio within the DAW so that they could be edited as conventional audio tracks?
Also, what about the mix-down to stereo? How would it be done within the DAW if 16 of those tracks are MIDI and one is an audio track?

I am sorry for the bombardment but this is really the first time I've tried to go deeper into this. It's also hugely impressive that there are people who know all of this.

Much appreciated, Sir!
Cheers – Antun

[DerekA]

System exclusive (SY***) messages, and standard MIDI control change (CC) messages, are embedded within the track in the MIDI file and are just events, in the same way as note on / off events are.

Each voice on the arranger has a code number (not actually a single number, but that's the idea). Panel voices all have their own preset code number, expansion voices also have their own code number but depending on what you set in YEM you can modify that number. So it is possible you could play the MIDI on someone else's SX and it would select a different expansion voice depending on what they had configured.

The MIDI file contains CC messages to select the voice, then a bunch of SY*** to apply any configurations (e.g. effect parameters).

As for converting to audio - if depends on which devices are playing back the part. If they are VST hosted in your DAW then there's likely to be an option in the DAW to render the track to audio. If they are external devices, then you need to record audio from that device. Some will support USB audio, some won't.

You can only create a final audio mixdown if you can render each track as audio (using whatever method), not directly from the MIDI itself.

I just know a little about how all this works, there are many others on the forum who can give you specific advice especially if you know which DAW you want to use. I would just advise you to start with something fairly basic so you don't become overwhelmed with options.

[Michael Trigoboff]

I had an SX900, then I traded it up for a Genos. Neither one of them has an internal audio interface, so you have to buy one and connect it properly.

This post has a diagram of how I connected my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.

[Lije Baley]

System exclusive (SY***) messages, and standard MIDI control change (CC) messages, are embedded within the track in the MIDI file and are just events, in the same way as note on / off events are.

Each voice on the arranger has a code number (not actually a single number, but that's the idea). Panel voices all have their own preset code number, expansion voices also have their own code number but depending on what you set in YEM you can modify that number. So it is possible you could play the MIDI on someone else's SX and it would select a different expansion voice depending on what they had configured.

The MIDI file contains CC messages to select the voice, then a bunch of SY*** to apply any configurations (e.g. effect parameters).

As for converting to audio - if depends on which devices are playing back the part. If they are VST hosted in your DAW then there's likely to be an option in the DAW to render the track to audio. If they are external devices, then you need to record audio from that device. Some will support USB audio, some won't.

You can only create a final audio mixdown if you can render each track as audio (using whatever method), not directly from the MIDI itself.

I just know a little about how all this works, there are many others on the forum who can give you specific advice especially if you know which DAW you want to use. I would just advise you to start with something fairly basic so you don't become overwhelmed with options.

Hi Derek!

Thanks for the reply!

My obsessive mind wouldn't let me sleep last night and something occurred to me. Given that SX900 has a song recorder onboard and that it can record in WAV, is it possible to record each track to WAV individually? For example, if my MIDI multi-track section in the SX900 sequencer consists of 16 tracks, can I record only the first track in WAV - perhaps by muting tracks 2-16 or something like that?

If this is possible, then it might be possible to get 16 separate audio tracks out of that MIDI, just by recording a single track at a time and muting the rest. The tracks could then be loaded into a DAW.

One other thing: what about the timing? Would these tracks be aligned in time? I assume it depends on whether the SX900 starts recording automatically once you start playing the MIDI sequence.

Also, you mentioned I should use a DAW that's simple and basic. Tell me, is it that obvious I have zero knowledge of these things LOL? Can you please tell me which DAW would you recommend?

Thanks very much!
Antun

[Lije Baley]

I had an SX900, then I traded it up for a Genos. Neither one of them has an internal audio interface, so you have to buy one and connect it properly.

This post has a diagram of how I connected my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.

Hi Michael!

An excellent sketch!

I would like to know one thing though - given that your Genos is connected to the Focusrite, can you use your monitors without actually using the PC/DAW? I guess what I would like to know is if the Focusrite can function as a standalone device, receive audio from the Genos, mix it to stereo (if necessary) and output the signal to monitors, without the need to have the PC turned on.

If I do end with a separate USB audio interface, it would be nice if it could be used independent of the PC, sort of like a monitor controller or something.

The terminology I am using must be all wrong, I apologize.

Cheers!
Antun

[Michael Trigoboff]

I would like to know one thing though - given that your Genos is connected to the Focusrite, can you use your monitors without actually using the PC/DAW? I guess what I would like to know is if the Focusrite can function as a standalone device, receive audio from the Genos, mix it to stereo (if necessary) and output the signal to monitors, without the need to have the PC turned on.

Yes, it works fine without the PC. You can just turn on the Genos and the audio interface.

[Lije Baley]

Yes, it works fine without the PC. You can just turn on the Genos and the audio interface.

Cheers!
Antun