This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!

[mikf]

Over the years it has frequently been suggested Korg arrangers tend to be more favored by pro gigging  musicians and Yamaha more by the home player. It's not a straight split, as many pros like Yamaha and vice versa. But that certainly should tell us enough about Korg to know they are not going to abandon that kind of player on their flagship. So no matter what they may have added for modern music producers, it would be a big surprise if it were not also solid for playing more traditional music.
Mike

[usaraiya]

By the way, why is this thread pinned to the top with a ridiculous title, "This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!"?
If it requires to be pinned, at least it should have an appropriate title like "Korg PA5X".
Uday

[DrakeM]

By the way, why is this thread pinned to the top with a ridiculous title, "This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!"?
If it requires to be pinned, at least it should have an appropriate title like "Korg PA5X".
Uday

Because that it's original Title posted by the board member, that's why. Simple as that. 

He wanted to point out the FACT that the Genos Yamaha keyboard's has held its money value (2017) for 5 years. Pretty impressive wouldn't you say? 

And it is pinned because we don't need 10 more threads about the Korg keyboard here at a Yamaha forum.

[Duffy]

As a matter of interest, can anyone tell me what the closing song is on the Leigh Wilbraham recording when he tried the PA5X ?
I wondered what that would sound like when played on the Genos but I don't recognise the tune.

[Bill]

I thought this was a Yamaha arranger keyboard forum... what is all this talk about Korg?  There are several threads going right now about the Pa5x. Isn't there a Korg forum?



Joe H

Hi Joe

I have posted a couple of links to PA5X demo's, my reasoning is simple.

I thought many people would want to see what new features are coming to market.

I am not interested in whether one KB sounds better than another or try to convince people to change brands.  My interest is solely in the changing technology.

1.  Seamless switching.
2.  Dual Style engines - novel but could be very useful.  Leigh has done another demo on this alone.
3.  16 assignable pads - It's like having a V3 Console already built in.

Bill

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Bill :

You are right : the keyboard technology has been improved again in 2022.

I am waiting now what the world arranger keyboard leader, Yamaha, will bring us, Yamaha players, in 2023.

I am convinced Yamaha will launch a new highend keyboard next year that will surprise the entire arranger business.

We need to be patient ...

Our patience will be rewarded !

Take care, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

Jeff's right. In the meantime, we still have an amazing arranger in the Genos. Yamaha probably has a few 5X keyboards in their autopsy room and are tearing them apart to see how they can make the Genos 2 even better.

[Dnj]

Yamaha is probably reading this and getting a big belly laugh right now for sure....

[Graham UK]

Korg Dealers UK all received initial demonstration products plus backup stock to sell.
UK dealers are now stating On Back Order so sales appear to be active.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Graham :

Thank you for this interesting information.

Is there a particular reason why our competitor has selected UK dealers to introduce the new arranger keyboard on Y-Tube ?

The UK has excellent professional musicians who are demonstrating the new competitive keyboards very, very well.

Might that be the reason  ?

Plse advise.
Many thanks, JH

[Graham UK]

Jeff. NO! I said UK because that is where I live.
Adam (Webinar) happen to mention UK because that where he is based.

But I think all Korg retailers where ever, would have received the same initial selling stocks.

[mikf]

The UK has a good arranger market and a well informed dealer network. Certainly better than I have generally seen in the USA where its quite hard to find a dealer even in in a big city like Houston that has a choice of arrangers you can try, never mind people that can competently demonstrate one.

Mike

[Danny1972]

...great sound for Commodore 64 sound.

Ah this brings back memories, the amazing SID chip on this computer was incredible and it even blew away some of the 16 bit computers sound chip (such as the Atari ST), which ironically used a Yamaha YM2149F sound chip.

[Jeff Hollande]

We have no exclusive Korg dealers in The Netherlands.
We have no exclusive Yamaha dealers either.

Most of them are traditional small family owned music shops selling popular music instruments and equipment.

Regards, JH

[pjd]

The UK has a good arranger market and a well informed dealer network. Certainly better than I have generally seen in the USA where its quite hard to find a dealer even in in a big city like Houston that has a choice of arrangers you can try, never mind people that can competently demonstrate one.

Mike

I can vouch for Mike's observation about availability of arranger keyboards for demo in the USA. Over the years, I've visited music stores in many major metro areas and high end arrangers are nowhere to be seen or played. There is low end product, sure, because inventory turns over fast. Tyros or Genos, fuggedaboutit!

In my experience, even low end Korg are impossible to find. If I still lived on the east coast, I would drive 150 miles to AudioProCT in Milford, CT where Frank often has the TOTL Yamaha and Korg side-by-side. Maybe I need to drive up to Vancouver and see Mark at Tom Lee. (And get some Nando's :-) ) This side of the border is an arranger wasteland -- pandemic hasn't helped...

Sorry to sound so negative. It would be a kick to try the Pa5x just for grins. Not shopping for a new board. (Sorry, Mark.) Nando's, yes! 

-- pj

[Michael Trigoboff]

Over the years, I've visited music stores in many major metro areas and high end arrangers are nowhere to be seen or played.

This is how I ended up buying a Motif XF7 in 2011 when I got started with synths. None of the local music stores in Portland, Oregon had any arrangers, and I didn't even know the category existed. Neither did the music store staff, as far as I could tell.

[Lee Batchelor]

None of the local music stores in Portland, Oregon had any arrangers, and I didn't even know the category existed.

That's nuts! Arrangers have been around since the early 80s. I'd be curious as to how they don't even know about them.

[mikf]

Houston has 6 million people but I don't know of a single music store where they have high end arrangers and somebody who knows how to demo one.
Piano stores usually have knowledgeable people and among the acoustic and digital pianos they might have CVPs but not typical arrangers like Genos.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Does that mean America can only buy arranger keyboards from web shops only ?

Plse advise. Thanks, JH

[GregB]

When I ended up purchasing my S950, I too found that stores with in-store arrangers were pretty limited.  Half of the reason I went with the S950 vs. the PA900 was because I couldn't find any local stores with a PA900 in stock for me to try out.  The Colorado Blvd Guitar Center in Denver is where I purchased the S950, which they had in stock and on display.  They also got out an S750 for me to try out.  That said, there is a music store near us with Clavinova CVP pianos on display.  I don't know if they carry the Genos.  They don't carry any Korg however.

I would love to see a service allowing people to try out keyboards virtually.  Whether via audio streaming, MIDI-over-IP, and/or some custom interface to the keyboard's UI... it would have latency but considerable value.  The Tyros/Genos/PA#x keyboards are apparently low volume high margin products, and a store offering this type of service could make some serious cash off of these things.

- Greg

[mikf]

Does that mean America can only buy arranger keyboards from web shops only ?

Plse advise. Thanks, JH

Not quite , but close. Some Musical Instrument stores might have one or two middle of the range arrangers, probably no TOTL, and more than likely no-one that can demo them. It's difficult to find somewhere to try them. The keyboard section at my local Guitar Center has digital pianos and some very low cost keyboards, basically - what I would see as 'toys'.
In Scotland where I have my other home, there are several music stores within reasonable distance with arrangers to try and nearly always competent piano and keyboard players to demo.
BTW , there are much more people in Houston than in whole of Scotland! Go figure. My guess is that the UK developed a much stronger home organ culture than North America and this carried into arrangers.
Mike

[Graham UK]

Just For INFO:...One of my Keyboard contacts sent this to me.

KORG PA5X IS SOLD OUT ALL OVER THE WORLD

I have daily checked all distributors of Korg all over the world, and have never seen anything like it before:

SOLD OUT

It was already possible to order on 1 July, but on 8 June the delivery capacity was blown up, with the result that no one can deliver until the beginning of September at the earliest.

SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

[valimaties]

This happens because Korg improved their sound quality with this PA5X, display graphics are definitely much better than previous versions, those two style players, SST, 8GB user RAM, and so on. More than that, is known that Korg exposed all parameters in sound editing and the style creator has much more functionalities than Yamaha's style creator. But, as maybe you know, in PA5X at this moment Style Creator has some missing functions than previous versions, like Velocity, Cut, Copy pages.. those one are missing, which make the job harder right now, you have to use step edit to edit a range of keys which take a lot of time. But I know Korg responds quickly to user's requests and an OS update maybe will be compiled soon.
For long-time Yamaha users, which love their sounds and the way of doing things, it will be hard to change to Korg, because it is another way of doing things. Even if they made those new improvements, most of Yamaha users will stay on Yamaha, no matter what Korg has done

Regards,
Vali

[DerekA]

If this is true, kudos to Korg, because it has managed to convince users of the quality of its product.

More likely supply is just very short.

A couple of UK dealers have said in their review videos that they only have one ...

[mixermixer]

Not quite , but close. Some Musical Instrument stores might have one or two middle of the range arrangers, probably no TOTL, and more than likely no-one that can demo them. It's difficult to find somewhere to try them. The keyboard section at my local Guitar Center has digital pianos and some very low cost keyboards, basically - what I would see as 'toys'.
In Scotland where I have my other home, there are several music stores within reasonable distance with arrangers to try and nearly always competent piano and keyboard players to demo.
BTW , there are much more people in Houston than in whole of Scotland! Go figure. My guess is that the UK developed a much stronger home organ culture than North America and this carried into arrangers.
Mike

All the guitar centers / banjo marts I've been to are exactly like this, basically all the low end piano/keyboard stuff are out on display while guitars of all price ranges are on display (hence the name haha). The only thing remotely interesting is the MODX they had on display few weeks back. But, they had no PSR models, not even the cheap ones.

[EileenL]

This is quite normal with most new Flag ship releases. The shops get one each to demonstrate and sell from. Over here it seems to be most only have the 61 note,
Certainly dose not mean they are going to outstrip sales. From what I've seen and heard I am not that impressed.

[Lee Batchelor]

As I reflect on it, when I bought any of my Tyros and Genos models, I always had to ask the store order one. They never stocked them because those keyboards attracted a very select market. In fact, whenever those keyboards arrived, I showed the sales guys what they sounded like because they barely knew how to turn them on. Thankfully, Yamaha made it easy to play the newest release without having to do a deep dive into the manuals. I could turn them on and start playing using the default settings. The architecture was basically the same.

As for the 5X being sold out, the same thing will happen with Genos 2 - guaranteed. Living in Canada won't help either. I believe it was at least four months after Geno was released in Europe and Asia before the first model arrived in Toronto. I bought the second one that had arrived in Canada. Meanwhile, the U.S. which is 40 kms from our border, across Lake Ontario had dozens of them months ahead of us. By the time I got mine, the folks in Europe and Asia had seen one half of their warranties gone !!

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, Eileen. From what I've heard so far, the sounds are either excellent or very dated with no life to them unlike the Genos.

Also, the Genos operating system is written from the point of view of a musician. The 5X operating system is written from the point of view of a computer geek. Not good. The 5X learning curve looks to be right up there with that of the Montage.

[EileenL]

Yes Lee,
  Having once owned a korg and realising how fiddley is was to set up something that was so easy on a Yamaha I did not keep it long. Still each to there own as they say.

[musicman01]

Dear forum members,
In my response on July 08, I wrote that I'm going to a private demo of the Pa5x next Sunday.
Because there have been random statements about the new Korg the competitor of the Genos
I want to share my first findings with you about the Korg Pa5x:
First of all, the housing, controls, screen & keyboard are, as according to Korg standards, of professional and very solid quality, so absolutely nothing to complain about! Something we Genos players can only dream of!
Korg has taken care of the entire software, and indeed they have looked at Genos without further ado.
The structure of the software was difficult and unclear up to Pa4x, something has been done about it so that it is now almost comparable to Genos.
Korg has also taken care of the sounds and there is a noticeable improvement, I am told that sounds have been taken over from the Nautilus.
The Pianos, Organ(Drawbars) are simply very good! the instruments of nature are also generally comparable to Genos.
The styles have also been overhauled, and now also have more Live Feeling due to the drums that are remarkably good.
A comment has already been made about the sound quality, the Pa5x has a "Finalizer" function, when it is switched on it gets a real boost!
I myself had the opportunity to play it for 30 min, and my honest opinion is that the Genos now has a formidable competitor!!!
PS: I recommend Yamaha to also take a look at the Pa5x, starting with the outside.
A keyboard of this price range '4k' must be made of solid material.
No Tupperware made in China conditions!!!