Korg Pa5x vs. "Genos 2 -61"

[LaHawk]

You're right GJ. Performance Guide is what I meant. I'm getting old 

[Gunnar Jonny]

.....I'm getting old 

Well, as we don't get any younger as days and weeks passes by, then not to getting old may be a bad alternative.... 

[Ingar]

If you want a 61-key Genos, buy a PSR.

Cheers,
Fred

It is not the same. Psr 900 is a great keyboard, but it is not a Genos.
Ingar.

[ton37]

Something to keep in mind?!

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=127503

That is unfortunately common with new products these days, even with the Yamahas (bugs I mean).
That's why I'm definitely waiting for another half year (2023 .. so maybe Yamaha will give us information in the meantime ) . I use that time to listen to it live and try it out. And to see what the state of affairs is with regard to reviews and to solving bugs, etc.
With pleasure back to my Yammie now ;-)

[TLN41]

Korg PA5x vs Genos.

Genos sounds win by a landslide IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2M1begz-ds

[Whitecolin11]

Your absolutely right Jeff, you can put incredible new features on keyboards but unless their simple to use , they will be lost. We all know getting a new tv reading the first pages and then just getting on with it lol.
The majority of owners are 50 plus and getting older, so there need to be thought on how to attract this age group before it becomes unrealistic to make new keyboards.
I  am always asked to how to do this and that on the Genos half the problem is the poorly instruction manuals.
The Korg for me on the surface looks great nice flashy lights, but some features look like gimmicks.
Can i  easily create a style, easily create a drum pattern, easily import sets etc?
So if the answer is no then the demographic that buys the keyboard's will be eroded and the high end Arranger keyboards will fizzle out.

[mikf]

I have a fundamental disagreement with the idea that many of the styles are out of date and geared to older players. I think it has nothing to do with age, and a lot more to do with what kind of music lends itself to being 'played' on a keyboard. I don't think it matters what age you are, or when the song was written, there is a type of music that lends itself to keyboard playing, and some that don't. Much of the music I have played all of my life comes from an era before my time, like Kern and Gershwin, and much of it is relatively recent, maybe Adele, but I play it all because it is playable. It has a clear and memorable melody and harmony. That is what works in live playing on a keyboard.
A lot of commercial modern music is great, but its more about musical production, atmosphere and driving beat, creating a party, dance environment that many love. But you can't really sit down and play it.  And the majority of people buy arrangers because they want to play.
Of course there are many people interested in music production, and they are constantly telling us that the arrangers need to be updated to emulate what is done on workstations. But they are a minority. There is also a number of players who do party gigs and feel obliged to throw in some of this kind of music, but again they are a relative few.
A perfect example of this is my grandson who has been professionally producing EDM for many years. But when he sits down to play a musical instrument in his room, he plays exactly the same kind of music that I would play. He has told me many times that EDM is not made to be played, it is primarily there to create a party atmosphere, with a driving beat, and there is a clear formula that works. He believes that most people don't really even hear it, or could hum it afterwards.
I believe that as we age, many people who played earlier, or never played, develop a strong urge to be able to play. The arranger has been the perfect vehicle for that. The idea that as the 'young' set age they will demand arrangers made for 'their' kind of music is myth. They will sit down to play exactly the kind of music we all play - because that is what is playable, satisfying and entertaining. I am not of course against constant improvement of the style technology, the styles themselves, or a wider range of additional styles. But I am still playing 'All the things you are' written long before I was born, and I bet they will be playing 'Yesterday',  'The Long and Winding road' and 'Moon River', long after I am gone.
Mike
   

[mikf]

As I said, as people age they often decide to learn or re-turn to a musical instrument and the arranger fits the bill. So of course arranger community average age is high.
So if you look at a lot of the music played by arranger you might conclude the choice of music is age related. My point is that it is not, it's just that keyboard players regardless of age play a lot of very  traditional music because it works on keyboard, not because the music is as old as them.
A bit like the myth that because quite a lot of older people continue to play golf, that it therefore follows that people who play golf live longer. Of course that is untrue, it's just that people who live longer sometimes also play golf.
Association vs correlation.
Mike

[EileenL]

Hello Mike,
  I have to totally agree with you on the music we play on the keyboards. Even playing for events people still want to hear songs with good strong melody lines that they can if they wish join in with. This is not an age thing as youngsters learning to play keyboards will still be learning and enjoying some of the good old standards or Classical pieces. I think we all enjoy playing enjoyable to listen to music and I feel this will still be with us when all the Thump Thump Bang has gone.

[J. Larry]

My Yamaha arranger is a perfect fit for the types of songs I play, which includes a smattering of standards, a little country, and previous pop hits.  Playing often in retirement homes, I'm finding increasingly that the residents seem to prefer, and request, many of the early rock and roll hits.  Too much Gershwin, Berlin, Cole Porter, etc., puts them to sleep.  So, most of my play lists are upbeat, with a few ballads sprinkled in.  I often use Band In A Box; however, I prefer the tracks created with the SX 900.   

[DerekA]

I feel this will still be with us when all the Thump Thump Bang has gone.

Do you mean all that pop & roll nonsense that started in the 50s 

[EileenL]

No Derek,
  I am talking about the rubbish they call music today. Supposed to be able to dance to it even if you are not high on something.

[soundphase]

All periods have their own good and bad. And once that said, everyone has his/her own tastes.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

EDM is simpleton music that comprises of a couple of chords and lots of repetition. It is like a song without a lead, just a background that goes nowhere and stays in suspension. Great for those flashing light sample machines/kids wind up toy.
Todays general pop is very basic especially the moo moo singing by so called men and women.

No wonder Paul McCartney won over Gladstonbury. There is no real lasting talent today.Just converyor belt music.
Music in the future will have to change and hopefully for the better.
Notice adverts always nearly revert to the oldies music, Yes, I am talking of the days when you could whistle to the music as well
How many people on mobile phones do you see whistling to music?
Bring back "Happy Days" and fun music in this world.
I can see a good future for arrangers and the young should be encouraged to play them instead of relying on samples for everything.
Kill the mobile phone!!!

The Classical, 20s,30s to the 80s's  was music, but 1990s onwards pepper piggy music and horrid rap rubbish
Well slate me if you will , but that is my opinion only and too many Es*** accents lol "kinda like"!!

I still say wait for the nexy Yamaha keyboard

[Armand]

I am not a professional musician. I learned to play keyboards with a Yamaha PSS470. I was evolving with the brand, until the PSR S950.
Then models appeared about every year and their performance is not very different, until the SX 900, but very expensive, so I bought
a Korg PA700. I tell you this, because the PA5X is the only Korg keyboard, they are 88, 76 and 61 keys, all with the same specifications.
  There are no intermediate models. I think something similar will happen with Yamaha Genos.
Best regards

[mikf]

Armand - I don't think so. It may make sense for a very small company like Korg, but Yamaha has a different approach and is a much, much bigger company than Korg.
Mike

[Leading Edge]

My Yamaha arranger is a perfect fit for the types of songs I play, which includes a smattering of standards, a little country, and previous pop hits.  Playing often in retirement homes, I'm finding increasingly that the residents seem to prefer, and request, many of the early rock and roll hits.  Too much Gershwin, Berlin, Cole Porter, etc., puts them to sleep.  So, most of my play lists are upbeat, with a few ballads sprinkled in.  I often use Band In A Box; however, I prefer the tracks created with the SX 900.   

Never a truer word was said when it comes to retirement homes.  Absolutely correct.  They don't want a conveyor belt of old big band numbers from the 20's, 30's and 40's.  Nothing wrong with that kind of genre' but it's not what the majority want to listen to.

[Ingar]

I have over some time now  listen to Korg Pa5x, and Genos, to compare them. I have tried to be neutral and objective to the best of my ability. Yes, Korg has som good features, nice styles and good sounding voices, but still, it does not, to my ears, reach up to the Genos standard. I hope that Genos 2, or what ever the name will be, comes with 61 keys as an alternative.

[ton37]

This afternoon I had the opportunity to try out the Korg PA5x (61) at my dealer. I was very impressed with this keyboard. It looks beautiful in design and just sounds very good, both the solo instruments and the rhythms. Many functions that I like to see in a keyboard can be found in this model. Very interesting are: an excellent keybed (minimally larger keys than the Genos and well balanced!). A beautiful tilting screen in very good resolution and touchable. Excellent quality sound, which is provided by means of. the sliders can be adjusted quickly and easily. And nice in a 61-key version.
I would definitely buy it....only just 2 considerations that are currently holding me back from doing so:
1.The PA5x's firmware/software still needs some updates to fix the bugs.
2.The 2nd consideration is that within a year the Genos will come out with 3 models: 61, 76 and 88 keys (see my other post).

So for now I'll just wait a year...

[BogdanH]

...
1.The PA5x's firmware/software still needs some updates to fix the bugs.
2.The 2nd consideration is that within a year the Genos will come out with 3 models: 61, 76 and 88 keys (see my other post).

1. As announced on Korg web page, new firmware will be released till the end of 2022.
2. Nobody knows nothing about Yamaha plans -right now, there are only wishes and speculations. But yeah, Yamaha will release Genos successor one day.

So for now I'll just wait a year...

-a little patience is always good   

Bogdan

[ton37]

The Genos and PA5X were in the same room. What struck me about the appearance of the Genos compared to the PA5x .... the appearance, the design of the Genos is quite dated. While the Korg looks modern and clear due to a well-readable layout on the front, supported by colored LEDs, the Genos front looks very boring. Badly legible letters, even illegible due to the use of black letters on black buttons. Hopefully new designers have started working on it to create a better, more user-friendly and more visible layout. But that's been mentioned before, but it struck me as next to each other. Ok, enough about this for me.

PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

[BogdanH]

hello @ton37,

...
PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

-I have an impression I was misunderstood. What I wanted to say is, you (we) don't need to wait that long, to see how Pa5X is supposed to perform.

And I agree with you about design differences between Genos and just released Korg & Ketron -because 1st impression sure does matter! But to be fair, Genos appearance was also quite impressive at launch time. It's just as time goes by, we sometimes get bored looking at "old" stuff -unless it's an exceptional design.

Bogdan

[Toril S]

The Genos looks better, but the Tyros 5 looks the best!

[ton37]

Thnx @BogdanH, you'r right, I misunderstood your post. Sorry for that, I now understand what you ment

Talking about a exceptional difference in keyboard-design: I remember the Technics Line; especially the Technics SX-KN7000 . That was tmho. an exceptional design in the Technics KN-line.  and then it was over 

[BogdanH]

I was a huge fan of Technics hi-fi equipment in 80's (after Sansui and Akai went out of business). Hmmm... not that I'm that old 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The Genos and PA5X were in the same room. What struck me about the appearance of the Genos compared to the PA5x .... the appearance, the design of the Genos is quite dated. While the Korg looks modern and clear due to a well-readable layout on the front, supported by colored LEDs, the Genos front looks very boring. Badly legible letters, even illegible due to the use of black letters on black buttons. Hopefully new designers have started working on it to create a better, more user-friendly and more visible layout. But that's been mentioned before, but it struck me as next to each other. Ok, enough about this for me.

PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

The Genos does look like the BMW, very Germanic in design.

[ton37]

  That is an interesting point of view, John: tomorrow I will look to a BMW and will do my utmost best to compare it with the Genos. No garanty I succeed

[ton37]

Mmm.. the long awaited December firmware update for the PA5x isn't as earth-shattering as hoped ... Allas, what should you expect when the OS update version goes from 1.0 to 1.1, what's in the name/ number?
We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds in our keyboard-world: 2023 can become a interesting year .. (and if not, enjoy what you have. There are other prior global problems enought)   

[Toril S]

As for looks, I ahve to say the Genos looks MUCH better than the Korg. It does not have an overcrowded panel, but is sleek and functional.

[EileenL]

Because Jeff that is what most people wanted.