Styles For Songs

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think I have finally figured out the best way for me to organize styles. When I want to play a song I want to get pointed to the style I like for that song.

I looked into using the built-in search function on the Genos for this, but it apparently only searches on file names. I was hoping it might search in the Regist Bank Info for the registration name (column one) that you can type in. But it doesn't do that.

I know I could make a copy of a style and rename it with the name of the song, but having a lot of copies of the same style seems inelegant to me.

So instead, I am putting together a Microsoft Access database that will let me type in a song name and show me all of the styles that I have chosen for that song. (Not that Access is so easy to use, but it's free.  )

Two questions:

• Is there an easier or more elegant way to do this that I am overlooking?
• Once I get the database working, is anyone interested in having me upload it so that they can use it too? (Which could be with or without my particular contents.)

[Richard Kent]

Aah . . . , Mike, that is a subject we have all pondered many times.  I have concluded that, as for me (and apparently many others here on the Forum), a compilation of favorite song titles together with the style name(s) that I like to play them with is the easiest way to access them quickly.

For what it's worth:  I copy the song title and accompanying style in a folder on a USB stick.  There are many Yamaha "dedicated" styles created to "fit" a particular song, but I've found that there are other styles that fit that song just as well.  I frequently encounter styles that fit a particular song while auditioning styles for a project.  I try to stop what I am working on, add the style to the "songs folder," and then return to what I was working on.  For example, the song Ain't She Sweet. has three styles I like to use with it, so in my Folder A, I have listed them as:
                                    Ain't She Sweet1-Ragtime6
                                    Ain't She Sweet2-Dixiland K
                                    Ain't She Sweet3-BigBandFoxtrot4

Your organized and alphabetized collection will grow quickly.  Hope this offers another opinion.

Richard

[mikf]

I think the re-naming of the style with the song name works well. It works particularly well for people who can play whole gigs without music, because it's a very flexible system, and all on the keyboard. At one time this method was so popular we called the collection of song named styles 'gig disks' because it works so well for gigs. You can sort easily by genre or whatever, and find the song/style quickly - all on the keyboard. It also allows you to set the correct tempo for the style for that particular song, and you have four variations and can set specific voices if you use OTS. It's also good for responding to requests for songs you have not prepared, because you can often just think of a song in a similar genre and use that.

Mike

[Michael Trigoboff]

For what it's worth:  I copy the song title and accompanying style in a folder on a USB stick. ...  I try to stop what I am working on, add the style to the "songs folder," and then return to what I was working on.  For example, the song Ain't She Sweet. has three styles I like to use with it, so in my Folder A, I have listed them as:
                                    Ain't She Sweet1-Ragtime6
                                    Ain't She Sweet2-Dixiland K
                                    Ain't She Sweet3-BigBandFoxtrot4

Interesting. How do you add the song title to one of your folders? In a text file? As the name of a style file?

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think the re-naming of the style with the song name works well.

You may have just talked me out of finishing that Access database. So much for my pleasant afternoon spent figuring out tables and joins and queries and forms and SQL. 

[Michael Trigoboff]

It just occurred to me that maybe what I want is a database that maps from a song title to a registration file containing a registration of a style for that song. Each of these registration files would contain different registrations for a single style.

I will have to ponder whether a scheme like this would buy me anything worth having. Thoughts?

[Toril S]

I do as Mike described. It works very well for me. Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

[anandmaloo]

I used to do what Mike suggested but then moved to what Dave (Muddy) does.

Was facing a lot of problem when editing styles, specially during changing the keyboard, because you have to edit every copy of the style. Many a times, while playing a style, you find a better voice or drumkit suited for that style. Or you have bought an expansion pack with fantastic Drum kit and you want to change an existing style with that Drumkit.  In Mike's method, you have to change all copies of the style. In Dave's method of registration, you change one master style and all registrations change !! Happened with me number of times for Indian TABLA kits.

Also, I have one Template song name for each kind of style (the most famous song of that pattern of style), and name all similar styles to that song like Hotel California 1, 2, 3 and so on. Then as Dave suggested, always go for Registration for different songs for each styles. 

Regards

Anand

[Michael Trigoboff]

It works both ways on my Genos, load the PDF from a playlist or registration, or load the registration from the PDF

I am assuming that the link from a PDF to a playlist or the other way around is via visual recognition on your part, and not some kind of automatic link. If a link is involved, I'd be curious how you got that to work.

[mikf]

Actually you dont have to edit all copies, you can just edit the master then re-save it with the song name to replace the one you already have.
This registration versus 'gig disk' debate has been around for years. I think it's a matter of both choice and to some extent, personality and strengths of the player. Here is a quick summary of pros/ cons of each system. This is my personal viewpoint, other players might see it differently.
The upside of registrations is that you can get fairly complex arrangements that use a whole bank of registrations for just one song. Changing everything for each section of a song, even the style. The downside is that this takes a lot of work to set up, and then needs to be documented for easy recall while playing usually via a marked up lead sheet or even sheet music, because there is little chance you can know by memory when to change registrations when playing from a gig list of dozens - maybe hundreds - of songs. This suits players who like to be organized, play a lot of complex arrangements, play from music most of the time, or who might have a small repertoire.
The upside of the 'gig disk' method is that it is very flexible and quick and easy to set up. This suits players who are highly experienced, can play whole gigs for hours by ear and memory, can't be bothered with all the preparation needed for registrations, like to judge to mood of the crowd and decide on the fly what they might play or how they will play the song  'on the night', or respond to requests. The downside is that it is not great for complex, rigid arrangements. 

If I were playing gigs today on an arranger - which I hasten to add I am not having been out of the gig business for many years - I would certainly rely on the gig disk method for the majority of what I play, and maybe have registrations for a few 'special 'pieces where the arrangement is more complex. Few enough that I could still remember the change registration points without written prompts. But then I come from an era where it was common to sit in with a band, and the only preparation was the vocalist saying - lets do 'My Way' , Eb - about 2 seconds before the drummer counted you in!
But everyone to their own preference here, do what works for you.
Mike

[Michael Trigoboff]

Was facing a lot of problem when editing styles, specially during changing the keyboard, because you have to edit every copy of the style.

That's conclusive for me. I am at the very start of doing this, and do not want to paint myself into a corner if I can avoid it. Thanks for this valuable insight.

It just occurred to me that maybe what I want is a database that maps from a song title to a registration file containing a registration of a style for that song. Each of these registration files would contain different registrations for a single style.

I will now pursue this harebrained scheme that occurred to me yesterday and see where it leads.

[Michael Trigoboff]

Actually you dont have to edit all copies, you can just edit the master then re-save it with the song name to replace the one you already have.

What if you have 18 different songs that are all based on the same style? If you wanted to change the drum kit for all of them to a new one, wouldn't you have to edit all 18 copies of the style under the "gig disk" method?

[mikf]

Edit the master then save under one of the song titles - the keyboard will the ask you if you want to replace the existing one and you say yes. Then repeat for each one you want to change. Wouldn't be much work even for eighteen songs. Once you have edited the original style saving to a song title takes seconds for each song. 
However, you might be overthinking things. In reality how often will it really be super important to change everything because you found a better drum kit? I know I might be thinking did anyone ever complain in the past that the drumkit was terrible and spoiling the performance. The reality is that probably only you would notice the difference and these kind of changes fall into the same category as 'would a new keyboard make all the difference to my performance?'
One thing I learned over many years of gigging was that perfection is not needed for live gigs. Provided the band is not terrible - playing out of tune, wrong chords all over etc - the most important things are playing what they want to hear, and quality of the vocalist. 99% of people can instantly recognize bad versus average versus great singers. The rest, not so much.
Now recording is different and then virtual perfection is a requirement.
Mike

[Michael Trigoboff]

Now recording is different and then virtual perfection is a requirement.

I am planning to do some recording. I did some with the Motif XF and then the Montage.

You can hear some of them on SoundCloud, if you're interested.

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think I have settled on some variation of the "gig disk" method.

The remaining question is, should I use registration files or copies of style files?

The idea with style files is to have a separate style file (a copy of the original style) for each song, named with the name of the song.

The idea with registration files is to have a separate registration file for each song, named with the name of the song. Typically, a registration file like this would have just one registration in it. I would then have a pointer back to the original style the registration was based on, knowledge which would be lost under the style file scheme and which might be useful.

I am leaning towards the registration file scheme.

I'm curious what others with more experience think. Thanks in advance for whatever feedback you provide.

[Fred Smith]

I think I have settled on some variation of the "gig disk" method.

The remaining question is, should I use registration files or copies of style files?

The idea with style files is to have a separate style file (a copy of the original style) for each song, named with the name of the song.

The idea with registration files is to have a separate registration file for each song, named with the name of the song. Typically, a registration file like this would have just one registration in it. I would then have a pointer back to the original style the registration was based on, knowledge which would be lost under the style file scheme and which might be useful.

I am leaning towards the registration file scheme.

I'm curious what others with more experience think. Thanks in advance for whatever feedback you provide.

I use registrations. One registration file for each song. My "gig disk" is a folder with the date of the event (in year, month, day format so it sorts properly) and the venue name.

Cheers,
Fred

[Michael Trigoboff]

I use registrations. One registration file for each song. My "gig disk" is a folder with the date of the event (in year, month, day format so it sorts properly) and the venue name.

Very cool. That gives me some confidence in my inclination. Thanks!

I just watched this video of yours and this one on registration sequences. That's a feature I hadn't looked into yet, but I think I'll be making good use of it going forward.