Low volume when recording in Style Creator

tyros2009 · March 09, 2022, 11:20:52 AM

I record a short tune as MIDI file on T3 using MAIN-B of a style.
The MIDI file sounds exactly as when I played.
Go into Style Creator, delete channel 15 (Phrase2), and re-record the same melody with same voice AND same volume setting. Before even start to record, I play the tune and it sounds faint.
Recording same tune again, playing back results in low volume for the Phrase2.
Increasing Velocity of Phrase2 to max (300%), playback has same volume.
Look like Yamaha puts a limit on how good users can record intros / endings.
Does anyone have an idea as to how to correct this volume issue ?
Ideas are greatly appreciated.

travlin-easy · March 09, 2022, 01:07:43 PM

Are you recording as a midi file directly to your keyboard? If so, please post the file here so we can make a proper diagnosis of the problem.

Good luck,

Gary

tyros2009 · March 09, 2022, 01:57:26 PM

I am not recording MIDI file. Any MIDI file I recorded sounds the same way, same volume as when I record them.
The low volume issue occurs when I record a melody in the Phrase1 or Phrase2 channel inside Style Creator.
I do not even need to start recording, simply select Phrase1 for REC, select the voice that normally sounds loud (out side of Style Creator). Play some notes, these sound faint !!!
I will try to record a short video to demonstrate this issue.

tyros2009 · March 09, 2022, 03:39:16 PM

After some experimentations, I discovered this:
1) Intro of preset styles sounds great, especially the one using Saxophone as voice for melody. (EasyPop is one of them)
2) go into Style Creator , select Intro3 which plays MEGA Sax voice, replace this voice with normal Tenor Sax, now the Intro3 melody Tenor Sax sounds much softer.
The same phenomena is seen when I replace the Mega Bass with Electric Bass, the bass voice sounds much softer and is kind of boring, no dynamic.

So it was not anything I did wrong, it has to do with the Mega voices.

I try to play a tune with Mega Voice or Bass Voice (which sound louder and more lively), trouble is I cannot the tune to sounds right, some notes got dropped off, or got very low volume. Most of the notes sound loud though.

My bottom line question: how to play with Mega Voice(s) properly. ?

DrakeM · March 10, 2022, 07:02:36 AM

Simple answer .... You can NOT use a MEGA voice to record with, no body accept Yamaha can use them. You need some special sort of program to record using them.

You can use any other Voice on your keyboard.

I create my own song styles all the time and let me tell those MEGA voices are the worst thing to have to deal with trying to match a NON mega voice to in order for the style to sound natural. That is way I have collected all the OLD SF1 styles which DO NOT use the Mega voices.

So don't waste your time thinking you can use them.

Regards
Drake

tyros2009 · March 12, 2022, 11:49:12 AM

QuoteYou can NOT use a MEGA voice to record with, no body accept Yamaha can use them. You need some special sort of program to record using them.

Thanks for clarifying MEGA voices. I have been wondering how I can play live with these voices. I will for get about them. I just use normal voices now. If a style I like use MEGA voices, I will replace with normal voices before adding intros/endings , etc... This way, the intros/endings sound similar to the main variations. For creating song styles, this would be good for me.

DrakeM · March 12, 2022, 07:17:23 PM

You can't do that either with the MEGA voices. If you replace a MEGA voice in a style with a NON Mega voice (90% of the time) it will make click sounds and crazy whirl sounds and the like.

I have complained before here at the forum that the "Rev Drums" and "Mega Voices" are the worst thing Yamaha has added to the keyboard for folks wanting to create their own custom styles.

PierreSW · March 13, 2022, 01:46:36 AM

Hey!
It's easy to fix to a MEGA VOICE in one style.
Just adjust the volume of the channel that has a mega voice.
The volume must not be higher than 60 then it starts to sound strange.

1- 20 Open soft
21- 40 Open med
41- 60 Open hard
61- 75 Dead
76- 90 Mute
91-105 Hammer
106-120 Slide
121-127 Harmonics

// Pierre

tyros2009 · March 13, 2022, 03:24:39 PM

QuoteIf you replace a MEGA voice in a style with a NON Mega voice (90% of the time) it will make click sounds and crazy whirl sounds and the like.

Most of the time, it's OK, no problem. When it sounds weird, I identify the channel that causes this and manually re-record that channel. That works for me.

Quote"Mega Voices" are the worst thing Yamaha has added to the keyboard for folks wanting to create their own custom styles.

AGREED 100%

I have a lots of song styles made by others, and these sound great without MEGA voices. I am learning from these.
Everything becomes clearer to me compared to 10 days ago when I start creating intros.

ckobu · March 14, 2022, 12:23:17 AM

Hi tyros2009,
watch this video maybe it will help you.

https://youtu.be/PRwXTQbqxfo

valimaties · March 14, 2022, 02:04:35 AM

Quote from: DrakeM on March 12, 2022, 07:17:23 PM
You can't do that either with the MEGA voices. If you replace a MEGA voice in a style with a NON Mega voice (90% of the time) it will make click sounds and crazy whirl sounds and the like.

I have complained before here at the forum that the "Rev Drums" and "Mega Voices" are the worst thing Yamaha has added to the keyboard for folks wanting to create their own custom styles.

It is THE BEST thing they've added in these keyboards, not the worst. They made the possibility of making the keyboard sounds more like the original sound of an instrument, like you are playing live that instrument: guitars, bass, drums, and so on

. Please learn about how a MegaVoice is made and how to use such a voice in styles, don't say it is worst if you don't know how to play with it!
These are some reasons I don't understand "sit and play" users! They say and write wrong words about the best features of these keyboards!!!

Look for a little description on PJ's description of MegaVoices on his site! This is a start point.
Open a factory style which using MegaVoice and see how they implemented these type of "super" voices in their style! It's awesome

The rest of the learning curve is in your practice!

Regards,
Vali

Joe H · March 14, 2022, 11:07:49 AM

tyros2009,

If you look in your Data List book for Mega Voice mapping, you will see that Mega Voices are multi-sampled Voices. The different samples are triggered by Velocity. This makes Guitar Voices capable of many nuances in a single Voice. It's possible to remove the Mega Voice code notes (C6 and above) using StyleMagic. Then you can substitute a Mega Voice with a Normal Voice.

It's not so easy (if not impossible) to record using a Mega Voice because the different samples get triggered by Velocity. I'm willing to bet Yamaha has special software to record Mega Voices in a style. We cannot create our own Mega Voices due to the multi-sample structure of those Voices. Maybe it's possible using YEM, but I think it would be difficult. We would have to have samples of the same guitar sound to make it work. But it is possible to replace one Mega Voice with another in a style Part.

Joe H

EileenL · March 14, 2022, 01:07:57 PM

I am a sit and play member and I know how mega voices work and what there purpose is.

DrakeM · March 14, 2022, 05:59:26 PM

I don't sit and play ever and I stand by my claim that MEGA voices are JUNK for the end user who creates their own styles using just their keyboard.

They sound great if you're someone that just grabs a style and plays it. Boring (just my opinion).

tyros2009 · March 14, 2022, 09:30:07 PM

I ran into a few cases where replacing MEGA guitar voice (CHORD1) with normal guitar voice will result in the normal voice has some weird sound. I correct this by manually -recording the CHORD1, a bit time consuming but easy task.
I am thinking about restoring the MEGA voice back AFTER completing the new song styles. Hope that by doing this, those weird sound go away. That would be best.
I can never play with MEGA voices.

valimaties · March 15, 2022, 04:17:03 AM

I write my custom styles using ONLY MegaVoices guitars and Bass. I don't write these types of instruments using regular voices, because it would not sound as good as MegaVoices sounds.
And yes, you can make MegaVoices in YEM, and Yes, it is not an easy job, but it is not impossible to do and there will be another sound, definitely

If you want your styles to sound good, professional, as instruments in real world sounds, write with MegaVoices, not with regular ones

This is my opinion and this is how it must be done!

I'm a little bit tired of hearing that it cannot be done, it is hard, or other wrong things/words! Someone who does not know how to do it, or it is a bit lazy, will say that, but it is better to learn why they made these types of voices and how they works instead of calling them "junks". You wanna sound "boring", make styles using regular voices, you wanna sounds professional, write with MegaVoices!
You all said a lot of times "why factory styles sounds so good?", "why they can do and we don't?"... That's why!! They used these professional sounds, instead of using those regular voices! Regular guitars and bass (for example) and other instruments in keyboard are using for live playing (right hand, left hand) but not in styles! Styles made with MegaVoices sound a lot better than regular ones!

Forum pause for myself! Good luck everyone and best regards!

tyros2009 · March 27, 2022, 07:53:06 PM

I have figured out how to create intros / endings without affecting the other sections, did that for two dozen songs.
I do this for curiosity, to learn something new. For gigs, I just play intros myself.
The intros / endings can have original voices that were there as I only record the melody.
The low volume issue is GONE.
Moreover, the intros can record only the chord sequence, playing live the melody with two free hands offer many possibilities for enhancing the solo voices.