Tyros 5 Music Finder files Re-Done

[EileenL]

Hi Folks,
  I noted that one or two people were having problems trying to play MF from User section. This was because there were so many files in one folder. I have now split them into four folders and they will work much faster. If you don't want to convert to playlist then use these.

https://app.box.com/s/d7lxp366f9uwgzu8h9nnsfyszfhnaa4e

[Rich Z]

Sounds like it could be an effective plan.  But after writing what I wrote below, I came back to this after thinking about it.  Wouldn't you have to go into the playlist (.tsv) file and edit the entries to let each playlist entry know where to find the relevant registration file it needs to work with? For instance, if those four Tyros5 folders were named as Tyros5_01, Tyros5_02, Tyros5_03, and Tyros5_04, every entry in the .tsv file is looking for their related registration file at C:/REGIST/Tyros5/. Which, of course, would no longer exist.  If you are breaking down that large registration folder into four separate folders, each one would have to be named accordingly and uniquely.

Yeah, it could be done, but we are talking about around 1825 line items in that .tsv file.  Unless that .tsv file could also be broken down into four separate files, and a quick search and replace edit could be done for each separate file then.  I think that would work.  But would we still be talking about each of those new separate registration files still taking 3 minutes to process by the Genos?  Yeah, better than 12 minutes, but this has me wondering just how valuable that Tyros5 Playlist really is to me.

At least that is what I am thinking.  But I got hit with a migraine headache late last night, so I am not firing on all cylinders right now. 

This is the BELOW stuff, mentioned above:
I was playing around with this today.  I deleted both the Tyros5 registration folder and the Tyros5 playlist folder in USER that resulted from that converted Tyros5.mfd file and my manually copying that .tsv file from the USB drive to USER, thinking maybe something got corrupted in the original process.

Ran the conversion again, and this time left the playlist file in the root of the USB drive.  When I went to the registration area, I found that the Tyros5 registration folder was placed in the USER folder. And I was able to view the entries without that huge delay.  So I then copied the Tyros5 playlist file (.tsv) into the playlist area in USER in the Genos.  I was still able to view that registration folder without the delay.  So I pulled the USB drive.  I was able to run the Tyros5 playlist entries without a hitch. And I was also able to view the Tyros5 registration folder too.

So I played around for a while, and in the process looked at some other registration files, and used some other playlists.  Then I went back to look at that Tyros5 registration folder again, and darn, had to sit on the bench for 12 minutes.  When the Genos came back, I felt like I was on pins and needles NOT wanting to go through that 12 minute timeout again. I wanted to copy that Tyros5 registration folder to my USB drive so I could take a look at it. And guess what? Took at least 12 minutes to do that, likely more, but I didn't really time it. But it became apparent that the Genos just READING that registration folder seems to take a real long time.

I will attach a screen shot below of what I can see in the Tyros5 .tsv file. It is simply an ASCII text file whereas the .reg files are binary.  It is obviously using direct addressing for the locations of each of the registration files that is needed for each of the playlist entries.  So the registration files apparently do not CARE where they are being called from concerning a playlist. There is no link back to the calling playlist line or anything they seem to need from that calling line.  It appears to be a one way call.

So what is the Genos doing while it is "Checking." a registration folder?  My guess, from comparing the time it takes for that "Checking." process to complete and the amount of time it took to copy that 3.34 megabyte folder to the USB drive, the Genos is reading every file in that folder before it will release the ENTIRE folder to be used.  Maybe it is doing some sort of verification of the resources being used in each file?  Maybe setting up links to the resources and settings every registration file needs in order to operate?  Maybe something else?  But whatever it is, it is TEMPORARY, and it sure doesn't seem to work well with this rather large registration folder. Could you imagine being in a live gig and suddenly get hit with a 12 minute timeout?  Yowch!

Now, the question I have is, does anyone have a similarly large registration folder they have created manually or by running this Genos conversion process on another Tyros model .mfd file?  I believe the conversion process itself does whatever that "Checking." function is doing later on when you switch looking at other registration folders, which is why it takes so long to complete.  Now I can't say it does it every time you switch the focus from the Tyros5 registration folder to another and then back again, as those 12 minute delays try my patience too much. It just seemed to be doing to me pretty regularly. I have been cranking up the Kronos to play with it while the Genos chugs along, but still.....

In retrospect, I have to admit I was curious about why Yamaha didn't just go ahead and provide one or more of those older model Tyros .MFD conversions already set up in the Genos instead of only providing the conversion process for US to have to do.  Maybe this is the answer. There may be an inefficiency (bug?) in their algorithm for the way Genos initializes the registration folders, and (speculating) maybe it was just easier to ignore it and just give a conversion program instead of fixing the registration processing code.  Perhaps writing the code to initialize each file when needed would have been better than initializing the entire folder. IMHO.  But honestly, I don't know what is going on, only speculating from the evidence I can see directly.

Anyone else have any ideas?

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[EileenL]

These files just load in as you would any other registration file. They work independent from play lists and the need for two button presses. I have my folder loaded in my main registration folder and use just the same. As you will note each Bank only contains one filled registration button and you have to then use the OTS for voice variations but it is quite easy to add your own voice selections to a bank and then just re-save the bank back into the folder. They are not meant to be loaded into Play List but used just as they are.

[Rich Z]

Yeah, I am still just getting my toes wet with this registration/playlist stuff.  But it does seem to me that in a lot of instances the playlist is just a duplicate of what is in the registration folder it points to and in many cases might just be redundant. For instance, using that Tyros5.mfd conversion, it does appear to be a one to one correspondence with the line item name in the playlist file (.tsv) matching up with the same name of the registration file it points to.  I have seen occasions where people segregated their registration files by alphabetical order and grouping them in small groups that way. For instance Songs A-C, Songs D-F, Songs G-J, etc. I understand why they did that now.   

What I think may be beneficial with a playlist would be to utilize registration files in separate registration folders. Since each line in the .tsv indicating a playlist entry appears to be independent from the other lines in that playlist file, it seems to not care what the other lines may be pointing to. Of course, I guess just creating a registration folder doing the same thing would work too. I am thinking that a playlist that pointed to every instance of a registration in multiple folders for a particular song title might be handy.  How many renditions of something like "Hotel California" do you suppose there are?

Out of curiosity, what happens when you try to use a playlist that points to registration files that don't exist?  I am looking at some of the .tsv files I have accumulated but can't seem to locate some of the registration folders in my "collection" that they are pointing to.  I am thinking they would just need to be discarded if there is no matching registration folder. Like any other collection of "freebies" you will get some junk you have to weed through, I guess.

I think I need to do some cleanup on my Genos as I think that based on what I am looking at in the collection of registrations and playlists I have accumulated from sources here and otherwise, that in some instances registration folders were being called playlists, and playlist files were called registrations. I am seeing that looking through the folders, and certainly some of that might be my own fault. So that is how I copied them to their intended destinations in the USER area. I can see where that is confusing, because in some cases, it means the same thing from a user standpoint. And it also explains why, when I look at some folders on my Genos that got copied from my USB card in what I thought were the correct areas, they actually were not, and they appear to have no content in them.  My guess is that if you are in PlayList mode and call up a folder, and it has registration files in it, they will not display. And in like kind, when I am in Registration mode and look at a folder that has a .tsv file in it, that also does not display.

BTW, is there a general reset procedure for the Genos, to return it to a "fresh from the factory" state? I haven't done anything to the Genos that couldn't be wiped clean and cause me to shed a tear at this point. I did play around with a system equalization setting, but it was like making a stew that I kept on adding a pinch of salt until I had a handful thrown in there. Yeah, THAT can go! 

[EileenL]

Registrations are saved into the playlist along with a style. If you save one of your own registrations into a playlist it will not look for it else where.

[Rich Z]

Registrations are saved into the playlist along with a style. If you save one of your own registrations into a playlist it will not look for it else where.

Hmm, interesting. I didn't realize that. What threw me is that in that .tsv PlayList file, each line is hard coded with a link to the required (I am assuming) registration file.  With that above knowledge in mind, I decided to try something on my Genos.  I just copied the Tyros5 registration folder back into my USER section, without copying the .tsv file back.  I played around with this for a while, switching from one registration folder to another and then back to that Tyros5 folder, which if you remember, was earlier taking me 12 minutes with that "Checking." message. Well, interestingly enough, without that .tsv file there, that "Checking." message only lasted 5 SECONDS before I had access to that folder and  the keyboard returned from zombie land.  Dramatic improvement! And this is with the original 1825 registration files, not the ones broken down into multiple segments as you have done.

So apparently that "Checking." process must be doing something with that .tsv file, and that apparently is what is soaking up all the time.  I didn't realize that the registration files and that .tsv files are resided together in the REGIST folder in the USER section.  And not knowing what exactly that "Checking." process is doing, it does seem to be checking the .tsv file entries, perhaps checking to see if there is an accompanying registration file present?  Beats me. But this does have me wondering if breaking down that .tsv file into similar segments like what you did with those registration files might help to speed up the process. If not, that sort or implies that setting up a LOT of PlayLists, even in individual files, might become a bottleneck in the Genos when it goes to "Checking." all of them. Just speculating, of course. But unless I see something in the PlayList function that attracts me, I may consider just working with the registration files/banks/folders alone without it.

Now that being said, I still think I would prefer working with the alphabetical segments that you created rather than that one large folder.  Just seems a heck of a lot more convenient to work with.

But anyway, I am still in the "looking under the hood" phase of this machine.  Still some things I am trying to figure out.

[EileenL]

If the Tyros 5 Music Finder is correctly converted to Genos playlist then by pressing Playlist button and going to where you saved the file and selecting it and then pressing Playlist again will open it straight away. The same as the other free playlists.

I created my playlist content as registration access saved as you would any registration you make yourself and save into a folder. All you do with mine is press Registration select and then open the folder you want to use and it is there straight away.

[Rich Z]

If the Tyros 5 Music Finder is correctly converted to Genos playlist then by pressing Playlist button and going to where you saved the file and selecting it and then pressing Playlist again will open it straight away. The same as the other free playlists.

I created my playlist content as registration access saved as you would any registration you make yourself and save into a folder. All you do with mine is press Registration select and then open the folder you want to use and it is there straight away.

Yes, I did that concerning the Genos .MFD converter.  Twice, as a matter of fact.  The problem wasn't when I was using the PlayList function. That 12 MINUTE zombie state showed up when I started looking at the actual registration folders. Apparently when I wanted to view the registration folder from that Tyros5 Music Finder conversion, something in the Genos wants to inspect the accompanying .tsv (PlayList) file, which apparently was responsible for the delay.

So if that .tsv file for the Tyros5 Music Finder file could be broken down into segments like you did with the registration folders (alphabetical grouping), I am wondering if that would alleviate that "Checking." delay problem.  That is assuming, of course, that there is a substantially good reason for using the PlayList access rather than just accessing the registrations files directly. So far the only way I have found to be able to get to the registration folder is by going through the home page with that link access at the top of that page. Maybe there is another way, but I just haven't stumbled upon it yet. Would be nice if I could optionally reassign that PlayList button to point to the registration files (.rgt) instead of the .tsv file(s). Might be there, but I haven't explored the button reassignment options yet.

Maybe with more time I will figure out the usefulness of that PlayList feature over just accessing the registration folder(s) directly.  So far, that "Checking." delay issue is a real buzz kill to consider using it extensively.

[Ronbo]

Hello friends,

Here's what's happening to me and my genos.

I converted Fakebook MFD called Ultimate Country to a playlist. Easy enough; no issues there.

I have used several song entries; again, no problem there either. They load up and play just fine.

I also have made a registration bank called "Ron's favourite voices". This works very well when I choose to by-pass OTS's that are provided in the style I happen to be using at the time.

The problem starts when I want to call up those favourite voices while using the Ultimate Country entry.
If during playing I choose to call up the favourites via registration the genos goes into that tailspin that we are all upset about .

THIS FREEZES UP THE ENTIRE BOARD for who knows how long.
You can't even shut the thing off let alone continue on.

That's what the issue is for me. I've deleted things , reloaded them and tried different approaches. But to no avail.

I don't believe I'm expecting too much from a keyboard as costly as this one is

Even if you could abort from that annoying  "checking" message I would be somewhat happy with that alone.

Regards

Ron

[DerekA]

Maybe with more time I will figure out the usefulness of that PlayList feature over just accessing the registration folder(s) directly. 

I think it's just a way of organising registrations into groups that make some kind of sense for you. For example if you're planning a performance (not that I do this) for a particular event, you can pre-prepare a playlist that refers to the appropriate song registrations. And for another event, you have another playlist that may or may not contain some of the same registrations as the first one.

Or if like me you're just a home player, and you save new registration banks randomly whenever you find a combination you like, you can create a more organised playlist e.g. "Christmas songs" that collects them together in a logical way.

[Bill]

  I didn't realize that the registration files and that .tsv files are resided together in the REGIST folder in the USER section.  And not knowing what exactly that "Checking." process is doing, it does seem to be checking the .tsv file entries, perhaps checking to see if there is an accompanying registration file present? 

The Registration files and the TSV Playlist do not reside in the same Folder in the USER Area.  You might well have the same folder name for your Reg Files and the Playlist, however they are not the same.

The USER area has a predefined files structure.
Regsist - For Reg Files
Playlist - For Playlist entries.

Regards

Bill

[EileenL]

Music Finder Files were really only meant to point you in the right direction of a style to use with a song title and used with the OTS settings. People wanted them to be able to do more such as saving a full registration with it plus any pedal functions you wanted to use or link lyrics or songs. Hence Play List was born and dose exactly this.
For someone who wants to use the Music Finder quickly to see what style is suitable for a certain song I made this as a registration file that can be accessed via registration bank by pressing this at top left of screen and then opening the folder you want to use.. You will only find one registration button lit when loaded and this is set up to start the style going as soon as you touch the keyboard. You can of course add more sound set ups to this bank and then re-save it as I have mentioned before.
There is no delay or problem using it this way and you can of course still select other voices on the fly without causing problems.

[EileenL]

Hi Derek,
  You have described exactly what the playlist is used for. It is very useful if you have a gig as you can arrange all your registrations in the order you are going to play yours songs in keeping them all nice and tidy.

[Ronbo]

Dear friends.

Thanks for all the info re playlists, registrations and MF.

I've read every word of every post intently; many times more than once

I must say that for me the MF on my former board, Tyros 5, works better; for the way I prefer to play music.

Many will disagree with me on this, but that's quite alright.

After all, this is a forum where a person can express an opinion on any topic.

If genos had the music finder as an option that would make me very happy.

Otherwise, Genos is a fantastic sounding keyboard; but it isn't perfect.

regards

Ron

[Fred Smith]

Hello friends,

Here's what's happening to me and my genos.

I converted Fakebook MFD called Ultimate Country to a playlist. Easy enough; no issues there.

I have used several song entries; again, no problem there either. They load up and play just fine.

I also have made a registration bank called "Ron's favourite voices". This works very well when I choose to by-pass OTS's that are provided in the style I happen to be using at the time.

The problem starts when I want to call up those favourite voices while using the Ultimate Country entry.
If during playing I choose to call up the favourites via registration the genos goes into that tailspin that we are all upset about .

THIS FREEZES UP THE ENTIRE BOARD for who knows how long.
You can't even shut the thing off let alone continue on.

That's what the issue is for me. I've deleted things , reloaded them and tried different approaches. But to no avail.

I don't believe I'm expecting too much from a keyboard as costly as this one is

Even if you could abort from that annoying  "checking" message I would be somewhat happy with that alone.

Ron,

I believe your problem is caused by having your registrations in a folder which has too many files in it. The keyboard searches for files sequentially in a folder, and it takes it a while to get through folders which have lots of files.

Take a look at your folders, and see how many files you have in them. If it's more than 250, split them up.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

Hello Ron,
  I don't think any keyboard will be perfect for all but we must remember that technology moves forward. If you let yourself get used to it Play list is far better than music finder and was designed to do what many many people have asked for over time. You can easily create your own of songs you like to play and add your favourite registrations to it also. Play list is much more versatile. Give yourself a little time to get used to it as you have done with MF.
  I take it you have downloaded the free sets from Yamaha download site.

[Ronbo]

Hello Fred,

Last night after I posted I got to thinking about all the fine points you made along the way.

One had to do with file size. So before you even made the suggestion to reduce that Ultimate Country playlist by making several sub-folders I found myself doing just that.

Your last post confirmed my expectations to get this Genos to work the way I want it to.

And voila!  It works.

Again many thanks

regards

Ron

[Ronbo]

Good day Eileen,

Thanks for your message of hope. most appreciated.

I have downloaded the free playlists, thank you very much.

Between you and Fred the answers are very clear. Your breaking down of the Ultimate Fakebook to four subfolders was brilliant. That made my day for sure.

I will now look upon Playlist as the new and better way of doing things from this day forward.

Once again, thanks for your guidance.

BTW,  I always read any post from you and Fred.  You two seem to share up front and truthful factual answers.
I should mention our friend from Germany, Over-Over,  He's a fount of knowledge as well.

regards

Ron

[EileenL]

Pleased to be of help.

[thomas750]

Hallo Eileen
wil those also play on my psr sx 700
thomas

[Rich Z]

So last night I took the Tyros5 .mfd converted files (.rgt and .tsv) and worked on them.  I segregated all 1825 .rgt files into separate folders based on alphabetical order. Tyros5/A/, Tyros5/B/, Tyros5/C/, etc.  Then I cut and slashed the Tyros5.tsv PlayList file into accompanying bite-sized PlayList files to match up with the registration files I just created.  So each Tyros5/ PlayList file only contained links to the corresponding registration folder.  Tyros5/A.tsv only contained the links to the TyrosA.rgt files, and the line items in each file was edited to reflect this association. Likewise Tyros5/B.tsv only contained line items for "B" registrations, and the link within the lines edited to reflect this.

For example:

• A Taste Of Honey   C:/REGIST/Tyros5/A/0018_A Taste Of Honey.rgt   0   OFF
  
• Bad Moon Rising   C:/REGIST/Tyros5/B/0140_Bad Moon Rising.rgt   0   OFF
  
• Christmas Waltz   C:/REGIST/Tyros5/C/0309_Christmas Waltz.rgt   0   OFF
  

Each one of the above came out of separate PlayList files.

Copied them all over to the USER section on the Genos, and so far seems to work just great like this.  No delays whatsoever. And honestly, it is much easier to look for a particular song in the playlist area that way. At least for me, anyway.

So yeah, apparently the registration folders can contain too many files, and PlayLists can have too many links to registration files. And As a result, the Genos will stumble on them. Which manifests itself as excessive delays while Genos goes off "Checking." something.

Live and learn, I guess.