Creating new 'Custom Styles' from Tyros 5's "40 Styles w/ Audio Drum Loops

[Marcus]

I'd like to get some clarification on the idea that MIDI drum kits cannot be assigned to audio styles.  This has been accomplished with S950 audio styles. The style was then exported and playable on other keybaords.

Has this capability been eliminated on the Tyros 5?

Joe H

Hi Joe

I won't know until I try when I get my Tyros 5, but from my understanding it shouldn't be a problem assigning a drum kit to the audio part of an Audio style. I don't think the drum kit will follow the exact drum patterns of the replaced audio drum part, but you can borrow and reassemble a suitable drum part from another style to replace the audio part. Then I see no reason why not to save the new style and export to another keyboard, but you must use the sounds from the other compatible keyboard. Probably would play pretty accurate on a Tyros 4 because many sounds are shared.

Hi Scott

I am with you regarding the User Drive. I figured room for 80-100 styles. More space would be better and I can't see why a firmware update couldn't allow us to use the HD or USB. I don't expect saving the audio part (as you say probably reads from ROM), but at least the modified style minus the audio part that the Tyros 5 will read properly and play correctly with the audio part when selected.

Marcus

[tomtomsf]

Thanks to everyone for your informative replies. 

It's disappointing to learn that 'styles that utilize audio loops' can only be saved to USER Memory as Tyros5's internal user storage (User Memory) is  only  6.7 MB! 

As far as a reasoning that Yamaha did it to restrict sharing these styles with others, I believe the actual audio drum loop  file(s) isn't included in the style file, but resides in ROM in the keyboard, and that the audio styles simply call them up when the style is selected, and that if these styles are shared with non-Tyros 5 owners, the audio drum track would not be recognized or heard.

Yamaha style file size ranges from 30-120kb each, so based on an 80kb sized style, User Memory would only hold 80 custom styles. Extremly limiting IMO. If Yamaha insists on restricting 'custom styles that utilize audio loops' to only be saved in USER memory, they should have simply increased Tyros 5's USER Memory capacity to at least 100MB or more, as currently 16GB flash memory sticks sell for less than $10 (US) each. Go figure. 

That said, perhaps Yamaha might consider (if enough T5 owners voice their request for it)  releasing an OS Update to allow Styles utilizing audio drum loops to be saved on the HD or USB stick too,  as all their other styles currently are. 

Scott

Hi Scott,

I agree. Tyros owners have been asking to have the User memory increased for years. It would be especially important now given the Tyros 5 limitation on saving audio styles. I support the effort to get Yamaha to allow saving audio styles to hard drive or USB like any other style.

Tom G.

[joseff12]

Hi I tyros 5 and I want to ask how to make audio styles where I found manual Thank you for answering

[joseff12]

Hi I tyros 5 and I want to ask how to make audio styles where I found manual Thank you for answering

[Marcus]

Hi I tyros 5 and I want to ask how to make audio styles where I found manual Thank you for answering

Yamaha does not allow us to make our own Audio Styles, like the default onboard Tyros 5 ones. While we can edit style channels 11 through 16 in Style Creator, we cannot change or create our own audio drum parts for audio style channels 9 or 10.

You could however, assign wave or AIF samples to a Custom Drum Kit in the Voice Creator feature of the YEM (Yamaha Expansion Manager), but will work as a conventional drum kit with no time stretch tempo technology as the true Tyros 5 factory Audio Style audio parts or available expansion Audio Styles from Yamaha MusicSoft.

Marcus

[1-man-band-berlin]

I found this old topic, but it's not outdated.
Yamaha's audio style concept is good to impress possible customers but not helpful in daily use.
I used the audio styles to create other styles, but in fact, there are few.
Beside the T5 audio styles for Genos, there is no additional stuff. A limited time, the download shop offered an audio style package with 5 styles, that I doesn't really need.
I added the T5 audio styles for Genos to my PSR S970 and noticed, it's limited to about 8 or 9 styles.
I feel a bit fooled by Yamaha, because the audio styles are few, to slow down them let they sound terrible, the sound is muffled, part EQ for style and drums doesn't affect the audio part - it's one of the functions, the presenter needs.
In YouTube there is a comparsion between PSR S970 and Ketron SD7 and this is pretty unfair, because it let the Yamaha sound better, than it is.
Possibly a Ketron SD 40 could help with it's audio styles, but it has the same price like PSR S 970 had. I live in North Germany, this is a Ketron free zone, music stores claim, that nobody asked for Ketron and therefore would be no need.
What kind of conclusion is this?
When a customer never heard of Ketron, how can he ask?
Or when he heard and possibly scare stories, why should he ask?
Sometimes the local store says "I could it order for you, but you have to take it, to pay it, no money return, if not satisfied. Why don't you try these wonderful Yamaha keyboards?"
I thought about buying a Ketron SD 40, to add audio styles without the limitations, that Yamaha has, when they try to imitate Ketron. But I dislike it to buy this by mail order, to pay money, to try and then money back. I prefer to try the instrument without being required to anything.
But the nearest music store, where Ketron is on display, is in Cologne, far from Berlin and I have to pay much money for the train ticket and to spend a whole day.
Well, who would do something like this? So it's reasonable to go the easy way, to buy Yamaha or Korg and to live with some compromises.
GENOS could fix the audio styles' issue. But another issue is, that I would need three drum tracks in a style and the Yamaha keyboard seems always to hide drum kits, when I want to use this maybe on a phrase track. Anyone an idea, how to force the style editor to "see" drum kits for the phrase track?

[gabrielschuck]

Hi Scott

That was my quote; the same Marcus resides at both forums. From what I read in the Tyros 5 manuals, as long as you start with the Audio Style in Style Creator you can mix up any Style part borrowed from other suitable styles. The only issue I didn't realize was that the new Audio style can only be save to the Tyros 5 User folder. Memory can be an issue, but as on the Tyros 4 there was no problem saving to a Hard Drive folder with any non-audio styles.

For the amount of audio hybrid styles I would probably create might be fairly low and I could dedicate the Tyros 5 User drive for only Audio styles saves. On my Tyros 4, I think the User drive can hold about 100 styles. My guess is the Audio Part of the style doesn't even get saved to the User Drive. What I am saying is, probably only the midi information directing the Tyros 5 to play the audio part, not the actual memory that contains the Audio part. So my guess is you can still get at 100 Hybrid Audio styles in the User Drive. For me, that plenty if I am correct. I still don't get my Tyros 5 till mid December in order to try.

For me, I still see no real issues unless only Audio hybrid styles must be saved to the User Drive, but my interpretation is Yamaha is only protecting their Audio Styles or modified Audio Styles for this purpose. It was brought up here regarding the PSR-S950 that I was interested in when it came out, but I was turned off when I realized the Audio Parts of the style would not record to the Hard Disk Recorder. Pleased to hear, you can record away with the Tyros 5, the the other issue discussed at that time was certain Audio parts would not work very well with switched parts from other styles because the recording environment, reverb, ambiance etc., would not match.

This was recently brought up in the other forum. With some work you can always change the DSPs effects and other parameters to approximate the Audio part environment to make all the assembled style parts match fairly well with the Audio part. I need to get my hands on my Tyros 5 to experiment in these areas. For those who like to experiment and create new sounds and styles, the Tyros 5 arranger will certainly satisfy. Another trick I use, well not really a trick, but if there is a nice Premium Style to purchase from Yamaha I sometimes buy a suitable style, not for the style itself, but a really good style part I can extract in Style Creator to create my own custom style. Yamaha does the best programming for the Yamaha Style parts and implementation of the fantastic SA and mega style voices. I bought the Tyros arrangers because I want the best to suit my needs.

Marcus

That was exactly my doubt too, and exactly what I wanted to do with my Tyros5, Marcus.
I mean then that there is no possibility to create styles using custom audios, i.e. percussion loops with time stretching technology?
How disappointing.
Such a limitation on a top-end keyboard is very expensive.
Only Yamaha has the generosity to do this with its customers, with all the technology that exists today in the keyboard.
Simply a resource that cannot be fully exploited.
What a mess this is.
Regards

[gabrielschuck]

Yamaha's audio style concept is good to impress possible customers but not helpful in daily use.

Right, it's excellent for making consumers silly.
And I'm sure it would be very useful if there were no limitations.
What was really new when tyros5 was released? Just the audio styles.
It's like yamaha wants to make us believe that Santa Claus exists.
It has the audacity to offer a keyboard like this that took a long time for a user like me to invest in it and then discover that it wasn't all that.
I've been a yamaha user for a long time, but it's things like this that make me consider trying out another brand of keyboard.
The reason?
They need to limit it in a way. And that's not cool.
Regards

[gabrielschuck]

I suspect that the audio in the audio styles is internally beat sliced (a la Reason and a zillion other DAWs). Beat slicing divides an audio track into small, beat-sized sound snippets. Each snippet is played back individually at full speed (e.g., 44.1KHz), but the snippet start times are adjusted by tempo and/or sync'ed with MIDI events. Beat slicing avoids some of the sonic disadvantages of time stretching. Time stretching introduces sonic DSP artifacts with extreme changes in tempo.

Exactly.
But time stretch algorithms are getting better and are already being used in other applications, such as in instruments other than percussion and drums.
They simply limited the use of a technology introduced in the keyboard that has been around for a long time.
They thought of it in the audio styles of the keyboard, in the audio player... But for those who want to go deeper into creating custom styles with custom loops... Here comes the frustration.

Imagine you have a daw that has time stretch technology. You can use it in your songs, but you can't use it in loops, even if they manage to fit the project's tempo.
Wouldn't that be absurd?

That's what we're just talking about time stretch.
There are already programs like Melodyne and Studio One that can modify polyphonic audio material, for example: A guitar chord that you can modify to sound the way you want.
Isn't that cool?
Programs that use artificial intelligence to remove or isolate parts of a song that has already been mixed and finished. Who knew this was possible before?
Regards

[overover]

That was exactly my doubt too, and exactly what I wanted to do with my Tyros5, Marcus.
I mean then that there is no possibility to create styles using custom audios, i.e. percussion loops with time stretching technology?
How disappointing.
Such a limitation on a top-end keyboard is very expensive.
Only Yamaha has the generosity to do this with its customers, with all the technology that exists today in the keyboard.
Simply a resource that cannot be fully exploited.
What a mess this is. ...

Hi Gabriel,

you can use the "Audio Phraser V1.0.1" program (available for PC and Mac) to create your own +Audio Styles. (Please also download the Installation Manual and the Owner's Manual for "Audio Phraser".)
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html#product-tabs
>>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yamaha+audio+phraser+style

P.S.
Another method is to use REX files (sliced Audio drum/percussion files). These must first be imported into the YEM. (The formats .rex, .rx2 and .rcy are supported.)
>>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yamaha+rex+file+loops


Best regards,
Chris

[ckobu]

That's right Chris.
Once all the methods of creating Audio Style have been studied and learned, then vocals can be added to the Style structure. 

https://youtu.be/NDvZDPfCmPU

[DonM]

OP Scott Yee has been playing Korg PA1000 for several years now, and loves it.  FYI.

[Toril S]

I don't like the audio styles, and am glad Yamaha left them out on the Genos!

[gabrielschuck]

Hi Gabriel,

you can use the "Audio Phraser V1.0.1" program (available for PC and Mac) to create your own +Audio Styles. (Please also download the Installation Manual and the Owner's Manual for "Audio Phraser".)
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html#product-tabs
>>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yamaha+audio+phraser+style

P.S.
Another method is to use REX files (sliced Audio drum/percussion files). These must first be imported into the YEM. (The formats .rex, .rx2 and .rcy are supported.)
>>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yamaha+rex+file+loops


Best regards,
Chris

Good to hear that, Chris! Thanks for the tip.
Then the thing really gets interesting.
I read the program manual and from what I understand, I create an audio style in it by adding a different groove or loop for each style session.
Then I export in .aus format and, in the case of tyros5, I load as if it were a new expansion. That's it?
Then I load the audio style into the style creator and keep adding the other instruments normally.
So, when saving the final result with the instruments already in midi data, will it be in the same format as the audio style or will it overwrite the .aus?
This possibility of using rex files is also great.
Does it also recognize loops in wave acid format?
Usually these files already have bpm information in the header.
Otherwise, I believe it is the case to convert them to .rex or similar, right?
Regards
Gabriel