Does anyone know about the PSR E-473 Yet.

[vbdx66]

Hi Guys,

This is really interesting stuff.

First of all, this states "new keyboards", plural. So what's the main difference between the two models? The second one is only partly visible, maybe it has 5 octaves, 61 keys.

Secondly, the two control knobs have two labels, K1/Vocal type and K2/Portamento. Hopefully these knobs can be assigned to various parameters - this is where the real fun might begin.

Any wild guesses as to what K1 and K2 stand for? "Kontrol" in German maybe? Or simply "Knob"?

If there's a five octaves model with two assignable control knobs, I'm in, esp. if our long-awaited PSR-E473 is still delayed.

In passing : Gearfacts on his YouTube channel in an answer to a comment I wrote made an allusion to something interesting due to come very soon from Yamaha. It might well be the PSR E473 after all, who knows...

Further, the UI of these new Casiotones strongly reminds that of the CT-S400. Behind its simplicity, the CT-S400 is a very capable entry-level keyboard with an interesting onboard MIDI recorder which has the possibility to control the volume and the panning of all three voices, as well as copy/paste function of individual tracks between different recordings. Very handy in an entry-level keyboard. On the CT-S400 the five buttons under the LCD screen have various functions depending on the mode you're in (tone, rhythm etc.). Presumably it'll be the same for these new Casiotones so let's not be fooled by the apparent simplicity of the UI, it might hide some powerful features.

Isn't life beautiful?

Regards,

Vinciane

[vbdx66]

Hi Guys,

If you watch closely this tease video and you count the white keys, this keyboard definitely has 5 octaves or am I mistaken? 

https://youtu.be/qUDilQUOyuc

Regards,

Vinciane

[vbdx66]

Yet another leaked photo on Reddit. The back of one of these new Casiotones can be seen.

@SciNote @PJD can you maybe guess what connectivity the keyboard has? Thanks.

Vinciane

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[vbdx66]

Another update yet:

On the Casio Music Forums, Mike Martin just confirmed to me that the K1/K2 knobs are assignable and that one of the two new keyboards indeed had 61 keys 

Cheers.

Vinciane

[vbdx66]

Yet another teaser video. On this one you can clearly hear the speech synthesis as well as some sounds and rhythms of one of the Casiotones:

https://youtu.be/5x7UoP-3Ko4

Vinciane

[pjd]

Hello Vinciane --

Thanks for all of the links, pictures and info. I already updated my site. 

"K" probably means "knob." Can't imagine mixing German and English on a front panel. Or overusing "K" -- unless you're Korg. :-)

As to connectivity, the only identifiable port is a USB-A port, probably for a USB jump drive. The rest? We'll know in a few days.

Mike Martin strikes me as a decent chap. He has a lot of respect on the Musicplayer Keyboard forum.

I'll have to scan a CT-S400 manual for my education. 

As to 4 or 5 octaves, most of what I play can be done on 4 octaves -- I'm not using styles/chord recognition. I'm done with three octave keybeds and I'm nearly done with mini-keys. I've been playing a Korg Microkey Air 49 lately and Santa brought an Arturia Keylab Essential 49 last week. Even Santa had supply chain issues. 

Can't wait to see what Yamaha has planned. They've actually had enough time to revise what they had in the pipe...

All the best to everyone -- pj

[pjd]

Just read the thread on the Casio forum.

The knob legends are different on the red model (CT-S1000V) and the grey model. So, there are two new models. The grey model does not have voice synthesis -- maybe a CT-S500?

Rear panel is very similar to the CT-S400. I think these two keyboards are extensions of the CT-S400 and will hit the street in the same neighborhood as E463 -- around $330 USD.

At least Casio isn't objecting to pre-release images in its forum. Note to Yamaha --  Lighten up.

-- pj

[SciNote]

Very interesting.  That vocal clip sounded really nice.  I'm also casting my vote for K1 and K2 meaning "Knob 1" and "Knob 2"

In the two videos, I looked at them back to back -- freezing the darkened image of the keyboard -- and I'm guessing that this is a 5 octave keyboard on both of those videos.  There seem to be at least 34 white keys -- and some are very likely hidden in the shadows -- so 36 would be very possible, which would be 5 octaves (5 times 7 white keys = 35 keys, plus the upper key so that the board goes from C to C instead of C to B).  But PLEASE, Casio, improve the QUALITY of the KEYBED!

If there is a five octave version, then that would increase my interest in it.  The vocal features sound nice.  It obviously has portamento -- at least one version of these keyboards, anyway.  I'll be looking for how straightforward the user interface is, and how much editing of sounds by way of filter, envelope, and other synth-type functions are available.  Though, I must admit, that my Roland Gaia synth satisfies my appetite for creating sounds.  But I would still need some tweaking, such as split, dual, independent control of octave and volume for each part, and DSP of some type.

But we'll see.  Maybe this will get Yamaha to get it in gear and at least start giving us some info about the E473, because Yamaha has served me well over the years, and I would certainly want to at least see what the E473 is capable of before buying any new main keyboard.

As for the connections visible on the back of the Casios?  Hard to say for sure.  One looks like a standard full-sized USB to device port.  A couple look like 3.5mm audio jacks (maybe for microphone and MP3 player?  Maybe it will have some basic vocoder function?).  Then there is whatever the cord is hooked to, which is likely either an audio connection or a power connection.  But I can't really make out the rest of it.

[vbdx66]

Hi,

Yet another update. This thread on Gearspace contains some additional information:

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Apparently the CT-S1000V will have a programmable arpeggiator. Pretty cool 

It also seems that a Bluetooth connection module will be included in the box with both the CT-S500 and the CT-S1000V, see attached screenshot (the link is dead).

If the CT-S1000V has 5 octaves, 2 assignable control knobs, speech synthesis (I also read something about an app to control speech synthesis), Bluetooth MIDI/Audio connectivity as well as the usual AiX sounds and auto-accompaniment features, Yamaha would better release their PSR E-473 very quickly.

Vinciane



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[casiokid]

All this speculation about the new Casio keyboards is interesting, but Casio need to update their out of date styles (rhythms as Casio call them) to seriously compete with Yamaha and Korg

[pjd]

The more I think about the new Casio keyboards, the more they seem like extensions of the existing CT-S4-- line. I'm hoping for the new pianos, etc. that they put into the S1.

Nice catch as to the Bluetooth module, Vinciane! I've been experimenting with MIDI over Bluetooth and don't really see any reason to leave it out of a product anymore. Korg have an interesting implementation with Microkey Air. There's a little cover (like a battery cover) over an installable (replaceable) Bluetooth module. All's a manufacturer has to do is type qualify a module for a region (FCC in the USA, CE in Europe, etc.), then install the module into units intended for delivery/use in the region. Yamaha has qualified modules already. Let's go!

The AiX board in the CT-S400 is small and incredibly sparse. I may have to buy a Casio just to take it apart. 

Yep, Yamaha had better not let grass grow under it's feet -- pj

[vbdx66]

Hi PJ,

Audio over Bluetooth is even sweeter. It means you could control an iPad app for instance the Korg iM1 app with the keyboard via Bluetooth, then have the iPad audio sent back to the keyboard. It also mean you could record your keyboard's audio output wirelessly on an iPad or a laptop without the need of any audio interface. Pretty cool.

Yep, I'd like to get the exclusive voices of the CT-S1 on the new keyboards, too. I have been dreaming wildly over what I could begin with the Mellotron flute

And: why on Earth would you want to tear a Casio keyboard apart to get your hands on the AiX board?

What I think AiX keyboards are needing is a computer-based patch editor, like those for the Yamaha DX7 or the Korg M1 in their time.

Regards,

Vinciane

[pjd]

And: why on Earth would you want to tear a Casio keyboard apart to get your hands on the AiX board?

Oh, I've been taking things apart since I was a kid.  Just taught the grandson how to remove screws from door hinges...

Well, I did the next best thing and looked through recent Casio patents on the US Patent and Trademark site:

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The voice synthesis stuff is an interesting application of deep neural nets. It'll be interesting to hear the CT-S1000V and see its app. Yamaha Vocaloid was very labor intensive. I couldn't imagine anyone devoting the time needed to make a good synthesized performance. It's got to be easy-peasy.

All the best -- pj

[vbdx66]

Well, well...

https://youtu.be/owyIirnMpfQ



Vinciane

[Duurduur]

I can not play this video. It says it's private.

[vbdx66]

Gosh they shut the video down!


It is quite cool. The musician Christian Matthew Cullen has written a song and he plays it on the CT-S1000V. Synth patches seem to be nice. The lyrics are preloaded on his smartphone and he then plays the syllables as regular music notes with his right hand. He must be doing the bass with his left hand.


I had time to read that the drums are his own samples (presumably a backing track thus) before the vid was shut down.


If you want to know more they are having an extensive presentation today at 1 PM Eastern. This video will be showcasted with plenty of other sweeties.


More of interest to Yamaha users: one good thing never comes alone, apparently Gearfacts received a nice little package from Yamaha and he'll do a presentation tomorrow on his YouTube channel. This might be about the oh-so-long awaited PSR E473.


So stay tuned, it's Christmas in January 


Regards


Vinciane

[pjd]

I updated my web site with a quick summary of the new keyboards:

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Watching the announcement video stream, a few of the artist demos are genuinely exciting. The new instruments include the pianos, vintage keyboards, etc., that are included in the CT-S1. [The announcement video just confirmed this.] Edits to preset voices are stored in registrations. At these price points, Casio will sell a bunch.

Both instruments allow split/layer and have 100 editable DSP effects.

The workflow through the Lyric Creator app to finished sound appears to be direct and fast -- much easier than Vocaloid.

Visually, the instruments look like synths, not arrangers. The rhythms (styles) are hidden. The video stream is trying to tell "pro musicians" that it's OK (convenient!) to have speakers built in. Interesting approach to both promotion and instrument design -- trying to get around the "it's a (Casio) arranger toy" bias of so-called "pro musicians."

Casio have really slapped down a real challenge to Yamaha!

-- pj

[bebopn]

Hi,
In case it helps anyone planning their future with the psr-e series, I just got a small hint regarding availability of PSR-E463. As you know it has been out of stock in many places (Guitar Center, etc) but to my knowledge no store has actually said anything official about it's availability. I have had one on an update list (backordered) from BHPhoto (NYC) for a couple of months. They updated me Tuesday Jan 18, saying that they have been told it is "discontinued".
So, if we assume it's officially discontinued (confirmation from another source would help), announcing the next model might be their next step? Of course there is no rule saying when that might happen. With the NAMM Show not happening until June, I imagine many manufacturers are not able to wait to use that as their primary launchpad for new products this year.

[vbdx66]

Hi,

Tomorrow, Gearfacts is going to post a YouTube video about new gear Yamaha sent him. I am pretty sure it'll be the PSR E473 (just a personal guess). So stay tuned!

Honestly, after having seen Casio Special Event today, I believe it'll be hard for Yamaha to catch the train this time.

The new Casio's CT-S1000V and CT-S500 are ahead their time I think.

The only thing I don't like is the fact that they've only two-variation styles - this is a pity since they've far better ergonomics than the more "pro" CT-X3000/5000, as well as the high-quality patches of the CT-S1. So why don't they have a better style module? They would have been winners in the middle arranger segment.

They have too few real-time controllers to qualify as fully-fledged synths, either. But they're certainly fun and capable instruments, esp. the CT-S1000V with its speech synthesis engine. They are going to sell like hot buns. I am wondering why Casio didn't put them on the market before Christmas. Timing issues due to the Covid-19 pandemics maybe?

There are only two reasons I could think of for these keyboards having only 2-variation styles:

1) The guys responsible for instrument design at Casio are daft.

2) They've got a CT-S 10000 in the making which will combine the possibilities of the CT-S1000V and the CT-X5000.

In the meantime, the PSR E473 would better come with new styles, sounds and functions if Yamaha wants to remain a serious contender in the segment - but I do have serious doubts.

Looking forward to see Gearfacts vid tomorrow...

Regards,

Vinciane

[rodrigo.b]

Hi. Like I said before, I hope the PSR E473 will get some of the MegaVoices of the SX series 

[pjd]

Just a little food for thought...

I was working on a comparison table (S500, S1000V, E463, MX61). Yamaha doesn't have a problem only on the arranger side. The MX61 is highly vulnerable, too. The street price for the MX61 is $770 USD. The S500 and S1000V both deliver more value, if the main purpose of the instrument is to play. Versus the MX61, players probably don't care about styles/"rhythms".

I caught the name of at least one Yamaha person in the chat.

Frankly, if Yamaha releases what we glimpsed a few months ago before their lawyers got huffy, they're in trouble. Maybe fire the lawyers and hire a few more engineers. 

Not expecting much tomorrow -- pj

[rodrigo.b]

It's here the PSR E473 https://youtu.be/qMVhJLas8o8 

[SciNote]

Well DANG!  So much to consider now!  The E473 has some nice features with the Guets are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login. Lite, the 2 slots of DSP effects, and the morphing control they briefly mentioned.  However, I am not crazy about the live-control knobs being so far away from the keyboard.  For other things that I am hoping for, such as the ability to sustain both sides of a split keyboard with the pedal, the existence of portamento, and the key feel, we'll have to wait for the manual and to see it in person.  I paused the video in several places, and I did not see a portamento button, but it could be a programmable function (like in the I500), or maybe some synth sounds could have it built in, like the Casio CTX700 and CTS400.

That vocal Casio looks freaky!  I'm not sure what to think about it!  So, yeah, I saw the video while it was still up, and that's exactly what it looks like -- lyrics are added from a smartphone and then synthesized into speech/singing.  The song on the video had a very vocoder-like characteristic to it.  It will be interesting to see if more natural human sounds are available.  But my concern with this feature is that, it appears to play the lyrics in some sort of pre-programmed arrangement, and indeed, there were several times where it looked like the musician was playing one note, but several words were "sang", while at other times, each press of a key produced a new sung word.  It would seem like if you made a minor mistake while playing that the words could get out of sync with your playing, but that's just speculation.  And while many synths today do have more live-control knobs, that isn't always the case.  Look at the original DX-7, which was pretty much completely menu-programmed with very limited live-control of altering the sound.  But just like with the E473, we'll need to see what Casio does with the key feel, as they is a lot of room for improvement when compared with many of their recent models.

[SciNote]

Information about the Casios -- the CTS500 and CTS1000V -- are now on their website!  Strangely, it shows them as both 5 octaves.  So, what was that 4 octave keyboard we saw previously?  A prototype?

Based on the information on the Casio website as I write this, the CTS500 is $379.99 US, and the CST1000V is $449.99 US.  I imagine these are MSRP.  The CTS500 has an option to purchase now, while the CTS1000V says that it is "coming soon."

Very interesting features here.  They are both listed as having 800 tones and 243 rhythms.  They are both listed as having 3 assignable knobs that can control things such as effects and filters.  They are both listed as having portamento.  They are both listed as having a maximum of 64 notes polyphony.  They are both listed as having 16 banks of 4 registrations.  In fact, based on the specs that I'm seeing, it looks like the CTS1000V can do most (if not all) of what the CTS500 can do, but then adds (of course) the synthesized vocal features, as well as the ability to create user tones.  There could be more -- I'm just summarizing based on basic lists of features.

So -- these look quite impressive!  So, how's the key feel, Casio?  That's the big question!  I'm really looking forward to checking out these keyboards and the new PSR-E473.

[vbdx66]

Hi Bob,

On one of the leaked photos, one of the keyboards appeared to have only 4 octaves because the photo was truncated and these keyboards have 3 speakers. So with one speaker being truncated on the photo, it gave the false impression of a 2-speakers, 4-octaves keyboard.

And yes, the CT-S500 is simply a CT-S1000V without the speech synthesis module.

If you want to know more (this is also for PJ), the manuals are online now.

I am a bit confused. The CT-S500 and 1000V are great as far are sound is concerned but even if they now have two assignable knobs plus one for modulation above the pitchbend wheel, seing the wealth of functions they're providing, they are lacking some more buttons for direct function access.

On the other hand, the new PSR E473/EW425 has as many buttons as on the now vanished PSR S series, but quite frankly from the few videos which are now online, the sounds and styles haven't changed much since our old faithful PSR E433. I find this fairly boring.

The only thing I can say so far about these new keyboards is that the Casio videos are more funny and original than the Yamaha ones.

Yamaha probably doesn't care because they are going to sell wealth of instruments to music schools and piano beginners, anyway, as well as to small churches (with its flashy looks I doubt that any chaplain would opt for the CT-S1000V for church service lol).

I'd say if you want to learn piano and have some basic arranging functions, choose the EW425. If you want to have fun and get into sound design or song creation, go for one of the Casio's (and given the meagre price difference between both keyboards, I'd go for the CT-S1000V straightaway).

If you are serious about arranging, buy a PSR SX600 or a Korg PA700.

Hope we'll get more vids of both the Casio's and the Yamaha's in the forthcoming days 

Regards,

Vinciane

[tekorei]

Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR 473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

The Casio keyboards had those sounds even before the CTX models.

[pjd]

It appears to play the lyrics in some sort of pre-programmed arrangement, and indeed, there were several times where it looked like the musician was playing one note, but several words were "sang", while at other times, each press of a key produced a new sung word.  It would seem like if you made a minor mistake while playing that the words could get out of sync with your playing.

The CT has different "modes" for playing lyrics. The Casio approach is not too different than the Yamaha Vocaloid keyboard (VKB-100). It's too hard to select (play) a phoneme with the left hand and a melody note with the right hand in real time. There were some early attempts at this and it wasn't pretty... Pre-canned lyrics are soooo much simpler.

4 octaves

That's the hazard of pre-announcement photo-interpretation. I leave my mistakes on-line in order to maintain my humility. :-)

CT prices

Those are street prices. A certain large retailer has the S500 in stock.

They are both listed... litany

Mike Martin (Casio) posted on the Musicplayer Keyboard forum. They wanted to produce both models and give people a choice. To me, the extra $80 might be worth the novelty and a chance to tear down (screwdriver) the S1000V. He also said that the CT-X series is NOT dead and may be more appropriate for one-person-band.

I think they are building the S-series from the entry-side up. I would expect a future high-end model or two.

Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR-E473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

The 61 piano, EP, etc. sounds in the S1 will likely appear in future, upper-end models. Those sounds really caught people's attention on the Keyboard forum. I passed on the S1 since I need more strings, woodwinds, etc. The S500 is an attractive step up.

All the best -- pj

[pjd]

Well, I'm really interested to hear if the PSR-E473 has convincing Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

Yamaha improved the drawbar organ sounds, giving select EW425 voices percussive click (key noise?) and leakage. As to electric pianos, SArt Lite Harpsichord? Really? Telemann is happy, but not Ray Charles.

I find this fairly boring.

I Strongly agree. We waited for this? Quite a few of the motion effects are in the PSS-A50 -- for $100 USD.

Would like to see pricing than make an assessment about performance per dollar -- customer value. My intuition is giving the edge to Casio at these price points.

-- pj

[pjd]

As to launch events... 

Casio wins hands down. The live event was well-advertised, well-attended, good natured. It had lively artist demos. Well done.

Yamaha simply posted videos on YouTube. As of this AM, no manuals on the USA site. Crickets. The demo videos are boring and the sounds are uninspiring.

I don't like to slag Yamaha, but maybe they need to concentrate on listening to customers and product development -- not chasing after people about pre-announcement pictures.

Mike Martin and Rich Formidoni (Casio) participate in forums and they clearly read user forums. They probably read this one. (Nice job, guys!)

I've got further thoughts, but I will get slagged if I express them here. I like competition and I wish Yamaha the best.

-- pj

[SciNote]

Just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like that video of the Casio vocal-effect song on the CTS-1000V posted above is available again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owyIirnMpfQ

It's also on Sweetwater's site -- yes, they are currently listing both Casios -- the CTS-500 and the 1000V -- on their site.  I don't see the Yamaha PSR-E473/EW425 there yet, however.