CMS Steinway D Piano Expansion Pack

[Toplayer2]

Has anyone purchased the Steinway D expansion pack (79 Euros) from CMS?  The sound heard on the demo video seems to be good.  Genos factory piano voices are not great in my opinion.

http://www.cms-sounddesign.de/page4.html

Joe

[Bachus]

Has anyone purchased the Steinway D expansion pack (79 Euros) from CMS?  The sound heard on the demo video seems to be good.  Genos factory piano voices are not great in my opinion.

http://www.cms-sounddesign.de/page4.html

Joe

Actually the genos piano parts are quite good...
But they are from a typical yamaha japanese grand..
They have a different soundcharacteristic then the western piano's
They are very good to use in a mix however, to cut trough a band or backing

Most western people however prefer the darker sound of Steinways and Bösendorfers and the like
Yamaha recognised this and now added bösendorfer samples to their high end digital piano's and synth workstations.. however not to the Genos, as i pointed out this is because of their marketing strategy..
The Bösendorfer and Steinways work much better for solo performances or just playing over a drum with a minimalistic backing..

I think we should stop calling the Genos piano sound bad..
Because as a sample comming from a yamaha grand it is quite good.
But it isn't the typical darker piano sound people in general are looking for

So maybe we can rephrase the statement.."the Genos piano sound is bad"
Into : "i am not a fan of the typical Yamaha Grand piano sound"



And about the CMS Steinway piano, if thats still the same i used in my T5, then its actually quite good.
CMS in general produces high quallity sounds..
They use large samples, which is good, but fills up memmory rathet fast..

[zionip]

Thanks Joe for letting us know about this expansion pack, and Bachus for his detailed analysis of the Genos piano sounds.

This CMS Steinway D Piano Expansion pack requires 968MB of expansion memory and comes in .CPF format, which is about half of Genos 1.8GB of expansion flash. 

Installing this expansion pack means that we will have to deal with expansion memory management by switching among different versions of Genos_PackInstallData.cpi files containing different combinations of expansion packs in order to fit in the 1.8GB expansion memory limit of Genos.  When I think about the long loading time of each big Genos_PackInstallData.cpi file, I immediately stop thinking of buying this pack. 

Thanks,
Paul

[Bachus]

Thanks Joe for letting us know about this expansion pack, and Bachus for his detailed analysis of the Genos piano sounds.

This CMS Steinway D Piano Expansion pack requires 968MB of expansion memory and comes in .CPF format, which is about half of Genos 1.8GB of expansion flash. 

Installing this expansion pack means that we will have to deal with expansion memory management by switching among different versions of Genos_PackInstallData.cpi files containing different combinations of expansion packs in order to fit in the 1.8GB expansion memory limit of Genos.  When I think about the long loading time of each big Genos_PackInstallData.cpi file, I immediately stop thinking of buying this pack. 

Thanks,
Paul

You mst have installed quite some expansion packs to have filled up the genos memmory..
The Bosendorf of Yamaha for Montage is only like 450MB, might be an option if it comes available..

May i ask how much free memmory you have left Paul?

[Toplayer2]

Thank you for your comments, Bachus.  I agree with most of your observations. The Genos CFX works well in a mix.  As a stand alone, to me it is a bit of a disappointment. It does not compare well with the CFX in the CP4, IMHO.  The new P-515 also has a very good CFX and an excellent Bosendorfer Imperial.  It is also a terrific bargain at $1499 US.

Where the Genos really excels is with the the SA brass and woodwinds.  In fact, other than the CFX, I quite like all the sounds. 

Thanks, Paul for your thoughts.  A quality piano is for me well worth using every last byte.

I will order the CMS and post a mini review.

Joe

[Bachus]

Thank you for your comments, Bachus.  I agree with most of your observations. The Genos CFX works well in a mix.  As a stand alone, to me it is a bit of a disappointment. It does not compare well with the CFX in the CP4, IMHO.  The new P-515 also has a very good CFX and an excellent Bosendorfer Imperial.  It is also a terrific bargain at $1499 US.

Where the Genos really excels is with the the SA brass and woodwinds.  In fact, other than the CFX, I quite like all the sounds. 

Thanks, Paul for your thoughts.  A quality piano is for me well worth using every last byte.

I will order the CMS and post a mini review.

Joe

. Both the cp4 (as well as the p515 to my believe) use moddeling on top of sampling.. so these cfx sounds are not compatible with the Genos...

Where it comes to piano sounds, yamaha stricly keeps the moddeled parts fortheir top digital piano's like cvp709, clp685, cp1, cp4 etc.. this technollogy hasn't made it to yamaha's montage range either..

But isn't having a P515 under your Genos and a MODX on top a good solution to get all yamaha has to offer..

By the way, expecting a cp4 replacement at next Years Namm..


Or just download the CMS sample, hope you enjoy it as much as i did..

[Roland]

Hello Joe,

I can recommend the products from CMS too - they really put lots of sweat and heart into their stuff - you can't go wrong :-)

Cheers, Roland

[Toplayer2]

Hello Joe,

I can recommend the products from CMS too - they really put lots of sweat and heart into their stuff - you can't go wrong :-)

Cheers, Roland

Thank you, Roland. 

@Bachus, as far as I can tell, the P-515 has the same engine, samples, and wooden key action as the CLP-685.  And Smart Pianist compatibility. Quite a bargain!!

Joe

[zionip]

May i ask how much free memmory you have left Paul?

Hi Bachus,

I invoked YEM 2.5.2, and found that I currently installed 45 expansion packs, using:
1777 MB out of 1784 MB (Voice Wave Size) - only 7 MB left out of 1.8 GB
8537 KB out of 61440 KB (Voice Parameter Size)
2461 MB out of 4096 MB (Pack Install File Size)

I have 7 other expansion packs (with size close to another 1.6 GB) that cannot be installed because of the 1.8 GB Genos expansion flash memory size limit.

Thanks,
Paul

[Bachus]

Hi Bachus,

I invoked YEM 2.5.2, and found that I currently installed 45 expansion packs, using:
1777 MB out of 1784 MB (Voice Wave Size) - only 7 MB left out of 1.8 GB
8537 KB out of 61440 KB (Voice Parameter Size)
2461 MB out of 4096 MB (Pack Install File Size)

I have 7 other expansion packs (with size close to another 1.6 GB) that cannot be installed because of the 1.8 GB Genos expansion flash memory size limit.

Thanks,
Paul

I guess that makes you a power user...
now i am wondering how much the average user is using...
I think this deserves a new topic, otherwise we will be cluttering this one...

[Lee Batchelor]

Interesting post, guys! Questions:

1) I have never used expansion packs before. I understand Genos comes with 1.8 GB of expansion memory as opposed to previous Tyros models, where we had to buy the expansion memory?

2) If I buy and load the CMS piano, where do I access the new piano sound? Does it just appear in the regular Preset list?

3) Does it take a while to load each time my Genos is clicked On?

4) Sounds like I would have about 0.8 GB of expansion memory left. Since I've never taken advantage of the expansion memory, I should have a fair amount left.

5) I agree that in a mix, the CFX Grands are just fine. For solo work, they are weak. Does the CMS piano have a nice bass end like the sample based, Yamaha 88 key pianos?

Thanks guys!

[zionip]

Hi Lee,

You asked the following questions:

1) I have never used expansion packs before. I understand Genos comes with 1.8 GB of expansion memory as opposed to previous Tyros models, where we had to buy the expansion memory?
Answer:  Yes, you are correct.  Genos comes with non-expandable built-in 1.8GB of expansion flash memory, no need to buy expansion memory card like Tyros before.

2) If I buy and load the CMS piano, where do I access the new piano sound? Does it just appear in the regular Preset list?
Answer:  You can find the CMS piano voices in the Expansion section, which is the 1.8-GB non-volatile flash memory presented to Genos owners as a storage / disk.

3) Does it take a while to load each time my Genos is clicked On?
Answer:  It takes quite a while to install the Genos_PackInstallData.ppi or Genos_PackInstallData.cpi file to format and write permanently to the expansion flash memory.  Once the packs are installed, you can access the Expansion voices / styles as quickly as the Presets.  Genos reads the expansion voices from the Expansion storage area, which is fast - it feels as quickly as accessing the Presets.

4) Sounds like I would have about 0.8 GB of expansion memory left. Since I've never taken advantage of the expansion memory, I should have a fair amount left.
Answer:  If you did not install any expansion packs before, you should still have 1.8GB expansion memory.  The CMS Steinway D Piano Expansion pack is close to 1GB, so if you buy this expansion pack and install it, you will have about 0.8GB of expansion flash memory left.

5) I agree that in a mix, the CFX Grands are just fine. For solo work, they are weak. Does the CMS piano have a nice bass end like the sample based, Yamaha 88 key pianos?
Answer:  I do not know since I am not interested in buying this expansion pack.

Thanks,
Paul

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the info, Paul ! Very helpful, as usual.

- Lee

[Toplayer2]

MINI REVIEW

As promised, here is a quick review of the CMS Steinway D.  Peter Ships is the creator of this sample set featuring a fine Steinway D concert grand piano.  Included are two MIDI demo files that allow you to hear the sound of the piano with excellent jazz and classical performances.  These really bring out the excellence of Peter's samples.  I am convinced that the underlying samples are what really matter.  This grand is close to one gigabyte allowing very long samples which decay faithfully and multiple layers allowing smooth velocity tracking.  The samples have plenty of body resonance giving the sensation of hearing a real piano.  This piano has a warmth that I greatly prefer to the Genos inbuilt CFX.

At first I listened using a pair of near-field monitors and was less than impressed.  With headphones, however, the piano sounds magnificent.  Thus, the fault is with my monitors!   [Update:  I swapped out the monitors for a pair of B&W DM 602 S3 speakers and ADCOM GFA-535 II amp.  The sound of the CMS Steinway through these speakers is exceptionally good.]   

The cost in USD is $97.  I feel that this was money well spent.  [Update: This is one of  the best digital pianos I have ever heard!  I am so grateful to have a decent piano in my Genos.  Of course, no digital matches the complex sound of a quality acoustic grand, but the CMS is quite satisfying.]

Joe

[PdeMats]

The Bosendorf of Yamaha for Montage is only like 450MB, might be an option if it comes available..

I am waiting for that... think Genos owners deserve it from Yamaha

[PdeMats]

MINI REVIEW

As promised, here is a quick review of the CMS Steinway D.  Peter Ships is the creator of this sample set featuring a fine Steinway D concert grand piano.  Included are two MIDI demo files that allow you to hear the sound of the piano with excellent jazz and classical performances.  These really bring out the excellence of Peter's samples.  I am convinced that the underlying samples are what really matter.  This grand is close to one gigabyte allowing very long samples which decay faithfully and multiple layers allowing smooth velocity tracking.  The samples have plenty of body resonance giving the sensation of hearing a real piano.  This piano has a warmth that I greatly prefer to the Genos inbuilt CFX.

At first I listened using a pair of near-field monitors and was less than impressed.  With headphones, however, the piano sounds magnificent.  Thus, the fault is with my monitors!   [Update:  I swapped out the monitors for a pair of B&W DM 602 S3 speakers and ADCOM GFA-535 II amp.  The sound of the CMS Steinway through these speakers is exceptionally good.]   

The cost in USD is $97.  I feel that this was money well spent.  [Update: This is one of  the best digital pianos I have ever heard!  I am so grateful to have a decent piano in my Genos.  Of course, no digital matches the complex sound of a quality acoustic grand, but the CMS is quite satisfying.]

Joe

Thanks for the review :-)

[motz]

Hi there
I'de love to share with you, 1st thing that it looks like no one seems to be aware that, sf2/soundfonts , works with the expansion manager just as good as ppf files, so its a shame to skip the opportunities that come the  soundfonts.
So regarding steinway's grand piano, below is a link to the great great totally free website, polyphone.
The link actually is directly to the page, but you'll need to create an account and log in for free, to be able to download that particular file.
I allso strongly recommend that you download their "polyphone soundfont editor" from its home page.
I'ts a pleasant advanced website you'll love.

love you!!
all the best.
let me know if you liked it.
https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/documents/10-pianos/265-gpo-concert-steinway-piano[/font]

[tyros5psr]

thank you for a very interesting and constructive discussion
je vais essayer ca,
tyros5psr

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi there
I'de love to share with you, 1st thing that it looks like no one seems to be aware that, sf2/soundfonts , works with the expansion manager just as good as ppf files, so its a shame to skip the opportunities that come the  soundfonts.
So regarding steinway's grand piano, below is a link to the great great totally free website, polyphone.
The link actually is directly to the page, but you'll need to create an account and log in for free, to be able to download that particular file.
I allso strongly recommend that you download their "polyphone soundfont editor" from its home page.
I'ts a pleasant advanced website you'll love.

love you!!
all the best.
let me know if you liked it.
https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/documents/10-pianos/265-gpo-concert-steinway-piano[/font]

Hi

Something wrong with the poly-phone link.
I believe the site has been struck by a virus

all the Best
john

[tyros5psr]

yes   idem

I believe the site has been struck by a virus

tyros5psr

[motz]

its their way of getting you to pay to become their member.
but its still worth the struggle, all you need to do is refresh the page untill it works/

[motz]

you can download the ppf file from this website, I hope it pleases you.
I will also share with you a acoustic drum kit and a overdriven E guitar on a sf2 file that I have created, its pretty real-sounding, acoustic, and mainly for the psr-s users, not too a heavy file in capacity, from this website Free PPF files for Yamaha with the link

https://app.site123.com/?w=4792700



or from my google drive

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D1rhVwk2o6wxlLgJTpSR99RqGWDEpUio/view?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JynnwNHw-0e7MgOj498nk_saWWiIZnuw/view?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b4s6xniN1dG87J4vhFuc-lxCwKbokrVb/view?usp=sharing

[motz]

hi its me, i hope you have managed to download them easily, there may have been some issues, but i hope its solved by now, otherwise, than the google drive link should for sure work/
please notify me upon any difficulties and so.

[tyros5psr]

hi its me, i hope you have managed to download them easily, there may have been some issues, but i hope its solved by now, otherwise, than the google drive link should for sure work/
please notify me upon any difficulties and so.

_________________________________________________

thank you very much for your dedication friend good evening
tyros5psr

[Dave Nuttall]

hi its me, i hope you have managed to download them easily, there may have been some issues, but i hope its solved by now, otherwise, than the google drive link should for sure work/
please notify me upon any difficulties and so.

What is required to USE the Steinway voice?
Import it to YEM and then export to the keyboard?
Thanks.
Dave

[motz]

yes thats it!!!!

easy done as said!!!

hope you enjoy