Survey from YAMAHA Europe

[EB5AGV]

I have just got a request to participate on a survey about GENOS promoted by YAMAHA Music Europe.

I think it is nice they want to hear from us! 

Jose

[EileenL]

Yes they do ask you to do these from time to time.

[Toril S]

Never heard from them.....

[EileenL]

Are you on there mailing list.

[Toril S]

Yes😀

[jazzy_beat]

Yesterday I also received the email from Yamaha Europe to participate in the Genos keyboard survey.
Glad that they are interested in knowing our opinion, to improve this keyboard.
It seems that Genos can still have a long life.

[Toril S]

I have also received and answered the survey now. Very straight forward, I hoped for a free space where I could elaborate a bit, but no luck in that regard. Surveys nowadays are very rigid, just answer yes or no, no space for a little bit of explanation of what I wanted to have improved. But it is very positive that Yamaha is having this contact with their costumers!

[Bachus]

I have also received and answered the survey now. Very straight forward, I hoped for a free space where I could elaborate a bit, but no luck in that regard. Surveys nowadays are very rigid, just answer yes or no, no space for a little bit of explanation of what I wanted to have improved. But it is very positive that Yamaha is having this contact with their costumers!

I make a lot of surveys for work..

I can tell you a survey where there is no room to add some explanation (text) to the questions is literally useless..    these surveys are definately not what Yamaha uses to feed their development..

[EileenL]

You are right there. I don't know why they send them out as they are not really of any use.

[jazzy_beat]

Well, the survey also asked you if you agreed to be contacted by the team of engineers and keyboard designers to know your opinion better, and if you answered yes, you had to provide mail and contact phone ... We'll see...

[Toril S]

I said yes. So we will see...

[filoaman]

I have also received and answered the survey now. Very straight forward, I hoped for a free space where I could elaborate a bit, but no luck in that regard. Surveys nowadays are very rigid, just answer yes or no, no space for a little bit of explanation of what I wanted to have improved. But it is very positive that Yamaha is having this contact with their costumers!

I also do surveys in work and from my perspective a yes-no survey is for dealing for specific details and nothing more. They will, hopefully, use the data from the survey but they don't ask our opinion about the improvement in general, they decide to make some changes and they just want to take the pulse of the users in order to evaluate if the changes in question are important or not for the users.
But this is ONLY about the changes they ALREADY decide, it is not to receive our opinion about the next version in general.

[Bachus]

Well, the survey also asked you if you agreed to be contacted by the team of engineers and keyboard designers to know your opinion better, and if you answered yes, you had to provide mail and contact phone ... We'll see...

If they want opinions, they just need to browse these and the German forums ...

[EileenL]

Japanese don't like forums they prefer to meet and ask people.  Have been to some of these meetings in the past and they have been excellent.

[Toril S]

They are welcome to Trondheim, Norway!😀

[Bachus]

Japanese don't like forums they prefer to meet and ask people.  Have been to some of these meetings in the past and they have been excellent.

Is it wise to close your eyes for all the information available here? Even if you are Japanese?

Offcourse these meetings are nice for people that have access to them...
But its also the limiting factor in this way of handling..
There is allways a door procedere..
And when there is a door procedere, some people despite their great ideas will never get in becaus ethey wear the wrong clothes...  if the door procedere means only people wearing sneakers get in, i would never get in because i wear boots...


Maybe this is the reason Yamaha fails to connect with the Western world?

Yamaha US have taken a whole different direction compared the Yamaha EU, they have their own forum and openly discuss things with all customers, the Forum has their main tepresentatives like Blake Angelos, Phill Gendenon, Dom sigilas answering questions of users and communicating user wishes with Japan..


Yamaha Europe is in my opinion still lazy on this behalf.. they could have walked the same route as Yamaha US, but they didn't.. now both these teams are on opposite sides of the spectrum.



I think its fair to criticise Yamaha's approach if you don't agree with it, is it?  We differ in opinions, thats okay..  But in my book Yamaha Arrangers customer support is still in the 20th century..  they didn't adapt.
Workiing strictly trough a dealer network for support is kind of hard when the majorrity of sales are online sales... 


Now nothing beats my Genos, but it could have been so much more, and there are lots of gains to be won for Yamaha too, might have listening to a broad range of people have made arranger capabilities popular with the youth?  And sell their arrangers in a broader way?

[EileenL]

You will never please everyone as people want to use there keyboards in different ways. Here in the UK  a lot of us are just content to sit and play these amazing keyboards for ourselves and others. We don't hook up to computers and VST's and that's fine as all these external things are available if that is what you want, but that dose not mean we  want to see them added to our keyboards and the extra cost it would involve. I personally want to put my interpretation into my music and not sound like someone else. I buy a CD for that. I think our lads did a great job with Genos and we have a great Technical team that are always ready to help. 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen

I like playing with all the extra toys!!!

No wonder the Japanese are out of touch with the Western world  "Everything is made in China"!!!


All the best
John

[Bachus]

You will never please everyone as people want to use there keyboards in different ways. Here in the UK  a lot of us are just content to sit and play these amazing keyboards for ourselves and others. We don't hook up to computers and VST's and that's fine as all these external things are available if that is what you want, but that dose not mean we  want to see them added to our keyboards and the extra cost it would involve. I personally want to put my interpretation into my music and not sound like someone else. I buy a CD for that. I think our lads did a great job with Genos and we have a great Technical team that are always ready to help.

You can not please everyone, but you could at least try and listen to them?

If you are totally happy with the Genos, you must be one of those people who will never buy a new keyboard again?

the group of people willing to pay for a beautifull instrument like the Genos is getting smaller every year..  if Yamaha still wants to make money on totl instruments like Genos in 10 years, they need to get more innovative to reach new customers.. 

I am probably one of the younger arranger players on this website, and i am 52 years of age..
there is a reason behind that high average age of Arranger players..


What worries me is the fact that many people think critisme is a bad thing..
Sure the Genos is a wonderfull instrument
Yet it also leaves huge room for improvements and even more room for new features..
But in general its critical people that improve products and keep sales and customers happy.


My biggest worrie however is arrangers dieing, before i am 80 years of age, because noboddy buys and plays them anymore...  thats why i urge Yamaha to innovate..

[Esa]

Я просто во дворе ....

regards Esa



Google translation from Russian to English by Roger Brenizer:  I'm just in the yard ....

[Toril S]

Message from outer space??😀

[mikf]

the group of people willing to pay for a beautifull instrument like the Genos is getting smaller every year..  if Yamaha still wants to make money on totl instruments like Genos in 10 years, they need to get more innovative to reach new customers..

Bachus - I dont understand why people keep saying things like this. One of the fastest growing market segments in the word is aging people, and they are living longer and becoming more affluent. And it can only get bigger because everyone ages.
It is a complete myth to think that instruments like Genos have to evolve to meet a younger market to survive. Of course company's like Yamaha will tweak and add features to the instruments to get more sales to a wider range of people where that is easy to do - but the core is still the older people. Older people have been buying easy play instruments for their later years for a long time, and will continue to do so. The instruments have evolved, and will continue to evolve because they have to compete. But they actually have got both better and cheaper. I think its a bigger danger to overall sales if they tweak the instrument too much to be more attractive to a younger group, and in the process lose some of their core market by making it too complicated.
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

The other thing is that the younger people and what they call music  leaves a lot to be desired IMO!!!
Yes Flashing light machines with little squares that play little noddy tunes.  Or, Making burps and tweaks on Volka's
EDM is like a kids wind up toy with Duracell batteries included. repeat after repeat ,Yawn!!
Long live Genos
John

[Toril S]

Amen to that!

[tyrosman]

yes Eileen i agree on this one you realy dont need vst sounds or any other computer stuff no wonder it takes John Ages to Record a song you realy dont need all these computer cadjets i cant understand why people just dont sit down and play this fantastic keyboard no wonder people have trouble trying to get things to work

[robinez]

Hi

The other thing is that the younger people and what they call music  leaves a lot to be desired IMO!!!
Yes Flashing light machines with little squares that play little noddy tunes.  Or, Making burps and tweaks on Volka's
EDM is like a kids wind up toy with Duracell batteries included. repeat after repeat ,Yawn!!
Long live Genos
John

i think it's a generation thing. I play a lot of EDM music and i know that quite a lot of people in the EDM have studied Classical music and have great piano playing skills. The flashing light machines (my studio is full of that) are using visual indications to show you where you are in the measures and provide visual feedback of what 's going on in the synthesizers that you use. It's much more complex to create EDM music then you would think upfront. You need to have a great understanding of song structures, production techniques and sound design to get the sound that everyone knows from the charts.

For the people that would like to have a good example of EDM music, i can recommend this concert from Above and Beyond. In this concert this EDM band playes their edm songs acoustically without the current sound production techniques and electronic drums. It gives a good insight of how incredibly well written those type of songs are and that EDM song structures are much more complex then you would think.

Above and Beyond acoustic concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUTlKqSO-I

And i agree with bachus in this conversation. The styles and sounds in the yamaha keyboard suite are not really suited for younger people. It's perfect if you like to play those 1950 - 1999 songs, but the sound and songs from the last 20 years is not something where yamaha shines. Don't get me wrong, i really  like to play those older songs and that's why i have the genos and added my own sounds for the missing parts, but if they want to appeal to a younger crowd they need to change a lot in their styles and sounds and give more hands-on performance knobs and features.

The Korg pa4x does this, i have that one too, the styles and sounds are totally different and much more modern and things like the KAOS effect onboard is showing that they are moving to a more younger public. The downside of the korg pa4x is that it's not really great in the 1950 - 2000 area. The yamaha Genos is much stronger in that genre area so it depends on what you would like to play.

And to be honest, i don't know no other musicians in my surrounding below 50 that have a keyboard. I'm sure that if it was a blend of a keyboard and synthesizer with modern sounds and styles that that would be a different story. But then yamaha would probably makes a lot of the current generation users angry. So those are probably hard decisions for yamaha.

just my 2 cents on this conversation

[Bachus]

Bachus - I dont understand why people keep saying things like this. One of the fastest growing market segments in the word is aging people, and they are living longer and becoming more affluent. And it can only get bigger because everyone ages.
It is a complete myth to think that instruments like Genos have to evolve to meet a younger market to survive. Of course company's like Yamaha will tweak and add features to the instruments to get more sales to a wider range of people where that is easy to do - but the core is still the older people. Older people have been buying easy play instruments for their later years for a long time, and will continue to do so. The instruments have evolved, and will continue to evolve because they have to compete. But they actually have got both better and cheaper. I think its a bigger danger to overall sales if they tweak the instrument too much to be more attractive to a younger group, and in the process lose some of their core market by making it too complicated.
Mike

Because the average age of Arranger buyers raises with one year with each year passing

20 years ago people of 40 years and older bought arrangers
Todays its people of 60 years and older..

The main reason behind that is probably the content that comes with these arranger keyboards..
Yamaha is still adding styles for music from the 80's of last century?

While the group af aging people grows..
The group of people interested in current arrangers is in decline..
From all those new aging people not many suddenly get the urge to buy an arranger..




Anyway, i don't want to be the person that tells you in 20 years when arrangers are no longer a thing, i told you so, thats why i speak out aloud today, hoping Yamaha starts listening..

[mikf]

If that indeed is correct  it can have many reasons, and not a signal it is 'dying out'. On the contrary,  people are living longer and seeking new interests for their anticipated long retirement. Arrangers are both more available and affordable and now almost an impulse buy for many, while the predecessor was home organs and they were a much more expensive, considered buy and a much smaller market. That combined with familiarity has expanded the market for arrangers into the older generation and shifted the average age. It's also a fact that early adopters of all new technology tend to be younger, but that shifts as the technology matures and penetrates the market.
Another thing people overlook when they compare features between brands like Korg and Yamaha is market necessity.  Yamaha are very dominant in the core market for these products. I am sure Korg would love to be in this position, but they are not. This means companies like Korg have to find ways to build their niche, and compete. One way is to provide some features which have an appeal to a wider or slightly different market. They have done this quite successfully. Yamaha will recognize that, but also realize that this kind of fringe feature competition in the market place is not always a bad thing as long as you retain overall core dominance.
Mike

[Joe H]

Yamaha understands the market place!  As the baby boomers disappear, the arranger WILL change for the next generation of players... which is EDM and EDM, Pop, Chill Beat, Club Dance and Trance. We are in the "in between" or "cusp" of a changing market place / buyer.  Yamaha is trying to satisfy everyone.  Some third party developers are trying to fill the gap with new Voice and Style expansion packs.

I predict that one day there will be a "synth arranger"... it's only a matter of time.



Joe H

[Lee Batchelor]

I have also received and answered the survey now. Very straight forward, I hoped for a free space where I could elaborate a bit, but no luck in that regard. Surveys nowadays are very rigid, just answer yes or no, no space for a little bit of explanation of what I wanted to have improved. But it is very positive that Yamaha is having this contact with its costumers!

A Yes/No survey is not likely read by humans at Yamaha. The results are tallied by a computer and give only basic feedback. If Yamaha wants real feedback, design a survey that has validity, not just a short-term pat on the back saying, "Everything is okay."

To be fair, Yamaha is one of the few companies that actually "try" to ask what its customers think.