MIDI command for Rotary SLow/Fast toggling?

[jimlaing]

Hi - I can't seem to find the MIDI command that will trigger or toggle ROTARY SPEED (fast/slow) on Yamaha Genos. They have a huge list of functions one can control on the MIDI, "External Controllers" page, everything under the sun is on the list, except Rotary Speed (Fast/Slow)!

I can't find reference to a CC# that will do this, nor a NNPR or Sy*** or anything.

I'd like to have a MIDI programmable button on an external device, send the appropriate MIDI command to tell Genos "Toggle the Rotary Speed Now".

Can this be done?
Thanks!
Jim

[zionip]

Hi Jim,

There is no mentioning of MIDI command for Rotary Slow / Fast toggling in Genos Data List manual.

Have you checked the following topic "Genos & half-moon rotary command" by assignable foot pedal?
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=49609.0

The following Keyboard-Akademie YouTube video (in German) shows how to assign the rotary slow / fast effect to slider 1 of Genos below the small OLED display so you can gradually control the effect:
https://youtu.be/1cccVmhjo6g?t=165

Thanks,
Paul

[Dromeus]

Hi Jim

It depends if you are using a S.Art Organ or an OrganFlute.

S.Art Organ: The rotary effect is sampled. Instead of using the Rotary Speed button you may also use the Modulation function of the joystick to switch the samples. This implies that you can send the modualtion control change CC 01 to control the rotary speed. Send value 0 for slow resp 127 for fast speed,

OrganFlutes: The Real Rotary insertion effect is used to create the Leslie effect. The first effect parameter is the Speed Control. This implies that you can send a Parameter Change Sy*** to change Rotary Speed:

fast: F0 43 10 4C 03 12 02 01 F7
slow: F0 43 10 4C 03 12 02 00 F7

Note: that the hex value "12" above refers to the insertion effect number. When selecting a voice for Right1 Genos uses by default the insertion effect number 19 which is equivalent to hex 12 (numbering starts at 0). If you assign a different insertion effect slot to Right 1 you have to adjust this parameter accordingly.

[jimlaing]

Hi thanks to all ... yeah, I know that I can assign this to an internal switch/button; I want an external device to be able to control it.  Yes, what I found (below) matches the previous note; I put a MIDI cable into my MIDI interface on my Mac, ran a MIDI montor, and found this:

I got my answer: When I press RotarySP, the following is sent:

on/Fast:
10:13:48.156   From MIDI   Sy***   Yamaha 9 bytes   F0 43 10 4C 03 01 02 01 F7

off/Slow:
10:13:48.897   From MIDI   Sy***   Yamaha 9 bytes   F0 43 10 4C 03 01 02 00 F7

Now if I can get my controller to send this MIDI string . . . ?

[jimlaing]

I guess the more I think about it, I need to suggest that Yamaha add one more item to the long list of items under MIDI External Controllers: the item called "Rotary SP" (i.e. add this to the list of many other things you can configure to be controlled via the MIDI External Controllers page on the Genos).

Yamaha has added features, so maybe they can add this one?  I'll be it would be simple for their software engineer to implement, given that they already have the ability to control probably 100 different things via the MIDI External Controllers page.

Jim

[jimlaing]

I sent the following to Yamaha.  Trying to put a positive message with it, as they do indeed add features that users ask for, as seen in the Genos updates we've received.

"I know that Yamaha is well-known for listening to their customer's ideas and suggestions ... Here is a Feature Request. The MIDI, External Controllers page lets us set MANY (over 100?!) parameters to be controlled using external MIDI devices.  I'm requesting adding of one more item: ROTARY SP.  That is, since an internal footswitch can be set to control ROTARY SP (rotary speed fast/slow toggle), it seems like it would possible to have an external MIDI device control be able to control ROTARY SP as well as the many other items in the list.  It would be HUGELY useful to me (and likely others, as I have seen this come up on the Forums by others too).  THANKS!   I really appreciate that Yamaha listens to its customers!"

[pjd]

Hi --

Dromeus' analysis is spot on. With an Organ Flutes voice in RIGHT1, I get the same Sy*** in a MIDI monitor.

Here's something to try: Put an EP (or other non-organ flute voice) in RIGHT1 and put an organ flute voice is RIGHT2. Hit the Rotary Speed button. Genos posts an alert message about the insertion effect being turned off. Try to enable the insertion effect using the mixer. Can't do it!

Yamaha's engineers need to rethink effect control and storage from top to bottom. All these weird functional gaps smell like legacy code issues.

Take care -- pj

[jimlaing]

Hi - I did that test, and it worked fine.  I often have an Organ Flutes sound in L, or R3, or anywhere - and "RotarySP" button always works fine; it only affects the Organ Flutes whether they are in R1, L, R3, etc.

Maybe there is some other situation/circumstance where it won't work?  If so, I have not found it yet . . .

Jim

[Dromeus]

Here's something to try: Put an EP (or other non-organ flute voice) in RIGHT1 and put an organ flute voice is RIGHT2. Hit the Rotary Speed button. Genos posts an alert message about the insertion effect being turned off. Try to enable the insertion effect using the mixer. Can't do it!

Hi Paul

Interesting observation. I did experience something similar two days ago, but didn't get the alert message. While trying to reproduce this message I found that now everything worked smoothly. I could select OrganFlutes into R1-3, each having the RealRotary insertion effect assigned. When operating the Rotary Speed button three sy*** messages showed up in the MIDI monitor and all three effects switched correctly from slow to fast.

I did remember that two days ago I had accidentially Cantabile running. It was set to echo Genos MIDI In back to Genos and I just verified that this was the cause of the unexpected behaviour. Just a thought, maybe your MIDI monitor did echo back the input stream to Genos?

[Luluc]

I sent the following to Yamaha.  Trying to put a positive message with it, as they do indeed add features that users ask for, as seen in the Genos updates we've received.

"I know that Yamaha is well-known for listening to their customer's ideas and suggestions ... Here is a Feature Request. The MIDI, External Controllers page lets us set MANY (over 100?!) parameters to be controlled using external MIDI devices.  I'm requesting adding of one more item: ROTARY SP.  That is, since an internal footswitch can be set to control ROTARY SP (rotary speed fast/slow toggle), it seems like it would possible to have an external MIDI device control be able to control ROTARY SP as well as the many other items in the list.  It would be HUGELY useful to me (and likely others, as I have seen this come up on the Forums by others too).  THANKS!   I really appreciate that Yamaha listens to its customers!"

+1
I really hope that Yamaha will do listen to its customers.
I think this request is  a must for people using often OrganFlutes voices, needing so to get a dedicated external command, like a foot switch.

That is so evident...

Luluc,

[jimlaing]

One complication I thought of, is "what MIDI channel would I sent the message on"?  The RotarySP button automatically "knows" (since it's part of the system) which channel (L, R1, R2, and/or R3) to work with, i.e. which of these have OrganFlutes sound selected, with a Rotary DSP effect in place.  So, pressing the internal buttons (or assigned footswitch) must internally "do the right thing" for one or several MIDI channels, as needed, to control wherever there is an OrganFlutes sound.

Not sure how this would be handled externally, unless it's on the MIDI channel for "Keyboard", which would then be internally "translated" to act just like a press of the RotarySP button.

If only we knew the internal implementation details!

I have contacted Yamaha in several ways, so we'll see if someday this ends up added as a new feature!

Thanks to all for the comments and ideas you've put into my this thread that I started ... appreciate all the thoughts and comments!

Jim

[tyrosman]

you can also set this to modulation + on a foot pedal 

[jimlaing]

Hi - I know that you can select "Organ Rotary Fast/Slow" for a local (plugged into Genos) foot pedal.
So I'm wondering if you mean that "Modulation +" can be set for an External Controller (MIDI) as well?
I wonder how it would toggle back to "Modulation -" (that is, toggle back to 'slow')?

I'll look into that . . .
Jim

[jimlaing]

Another idea, if Yamaha would implement, would be to have an "External Controller" enable any Assignable Button or Assignable Footswitch.  That is, add to the list of items under MIDI / External Controller, the items "Assignable Button A", etc.

This would add a lot of 'power' to what we could do with external MIDI controllers, whether foot controllers or keyboard controllers with buttons, etc.

Then one could have an external event trigger exactly what "Button A" does etc.  Button A could be assigned in the normal way, to "Organ Rotary Slow/Fast".

Who knows, maybe in a future update?!

Jim

[manuel]

Jim I have been trying to contact you, I sent you message a few days ago....

Could you please check your messages....
Thank you

Manuel

[jimlaing]

Hi Manuel - I have sent you emails, hopefully you received them OK.

Yamaha responded to my questions and suggestions about adding ability to control Rotary SP (fast/slow toggle), but I don't think they really understood my question/comments.  Or, offered somewhat related info, since Genos can't do the thing I had asked about / suggested (external MIDI controller make Organ Rotary switch Slow-to-Fast or Fast/Slow)

They wrote:
Thanks for your input. But in case you didn't know, the Genos will respond to MIDI Control Change commands such as 'Modulation Wheel (#1) as an example. Most MIDI foot controllers or external/MIDI controllers could do this. We have the MFC10, for example. But there are many 3rd party MIDI controllers you might ask your dealer about that would transmit MIDI Control Change data, which the Genos will respond to.

[jimlaing]

I thought of another way to achieve this (and many other things):
I sent this to Yamaha:

I was thinking of another way that Yamaha could make the "External MIDI Controllers" section more flexible: if they allowed us to set any MIDI event # (note #), in addition to the ~14 pages of things they already have on this Function, if they added "Assignable Button A", "Assignable Button B", "Assignable Button C", etc., it would be useful.

Then, a Genos user could set up Assignable Button C (For example) do a particular thing they want - and if they want an External MIDI Controller to also do the same function, they could set up a MIDI event (note # most likely) to trigger that Assignable Button!

Here is a mock-up example: (attached JPG file)

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