Problems with MIDI Data — RESOLVED

[Bill]

Hi All

I'm having a bit of a problem with the MIDI out on my Genos. 

The problem is I'm not getting the full range of 0-127  on CC7 messages. Other parameters appear to be OK.  The full range was available previously.  I'm getting a max between 99 & 107.  This screws up the display on my IPAD and would like to get it fixed.
I'm getting the same values regardless of the type of connection ie  Wifi or Bluetooth

Any Ideas

Bill

[markstyles]

Isn't there a velocity curve function for Genos?..   I vague seem to remember..  You set it for your type of playing. That is if you are a piano player you usually hit the keys harder than an organist.   Not in front of my Genos now to answer.. 

It seems like such a weird problem,  unless velocity sensing of keyboard went bad.  But I suspect if something died in your Genos, you would have a lot more problems.  good luck

[overover]

Hi All

I'm having a bit of a problem with the MIDI out on my Genos. 

The problem is I'm not getting the full range of 0-127  on CC7 messages. Other parameters appear to be OK.  The full range was available previously.  I'm getting a max between 99 & 107.  This screws up the display on my IPAD and would like to get it fixed.
I'm getting the same values regardless of the type of connection ie  Wifi or Bluetooth ...

Hi Bill,

what exactly are you doing here?

Which CC7 data are you talking about: Sent by Live Control Sliders / Knobs, sent by MIDI file Parts / Style Parts or sent by Keyboard Parts (Right / Left)?

What exactly do you mean by "This screws up the display on my IPAD"? Which app do you use on the iPad?


Best regards,
Chris

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't think the velocity curve has any bearing on CC7, but I might be wrong.

The thing that came to mind was a vague memory of people talking about having trouble with the Channel Volumes when they were using the Live Control knobs to try to balance the parts (voices) on some of the PSR-S models, but I don't recall the details of that issue.

The only other thing that comes to mind is actually more specific to the PSE-E models, which don't have a Mixer for setting the Channel Volumes of the individual parts of a style. On those models the volume of each style part is set within the style and can't be changed, but the Style Volume function can be used to adjust them en masse, such as turning all of them up or down relative to their default settings. I believe that on those models the Style Volume acts like a percentage multiplier, with 100 meaning 100%, 50 meaning 50%, and so on. If that's correct, the maximum Channel Volume for any given style part will be 127% times its default setting, such as 1.27 * 80 = 101.6, which I assume would be truncated to 101. But I don't know if the Genos has any functions which are at all similar to that.

[Janus]

Try to change the initial touch to soft
When it is set to hard you have to hit the keys hard to get the full output

Gr.Jan

[Bill]

Hi  Guys

Many thanks for your responses - they are really appreciated.

However I need to explain a bit more as the problem does not have anything to do with Dynamics. touch or playing techniques. Much more basic than that.

The data that is not being transmitted from the KB correctly is the simple Voice Level 0-127 (LH & R1-3)  These are set to obtain a suitable balance between various parameters.

What I am (or more to the point WAS doing) is I'm using a couple of programs on my IPAD Pro to show many of the keyboard parameters, so that I can instantly see how things are set and can adjust these without having to go through lots of screens or Slider selections on the keyboard.  The Genos is no doubt a great keyboard but the very useful sliders are not motorised hence do not have a smooth transition. Likewise, the KB display for live control is pretty poor because you have to preselect the one before you can adjust it.

All of the parameters that I display on my Ipad work OK except for those that are VOLUME.  All of the style parts Volumes only Max at 100 and the KB voices only reach 78-98.  Running a Midi Monitor program also show that the 127 max values are not being sent out from the keyboard.

If I can I will attach a couple of screenshots to show what I'm doing.  I have spoken to Yamaha Tech support, the guys has asked me to send him some additional info so he can pass it on to the designer.  In my opinion, it is possible an OS Bug (it worked before the Version 2 update)


The two programs that I use are either free or reasonably priced and simply allow you to create your own Control surface and not be tied down to some other person's idea of what you need.

What would be really nice is that if anyone that is familiar with Midi and has a Genos and an IPAD could use a MIDI Monitor to check the transmitted values when adjusting one of the CC7 (Voice Volumes).   This way I could tell if the problem are Hardware or a possible bug introduced with the V2 update.


Regards

Bill




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[Dromeus]

Hi Bill

I can confirm your findings and have some additional info for you.

If you change the part volume of a keyboard part using the mixer's sliders (showing 1-127) the CC07 values will vary from 0 to the Voice Volume which is defined in the Voice Set (check that using the Voice Edit screen). Examples:

CFX ConcertGrand has Voice Volume 119 (hexa 77). CC07 will vary from 0x00 to 0x77.
KinoStrings has Voice Volume 95 (hexa 5F). CC07 will vary from 0x00 to 0x5F.

So you don't get 0x00 to 0x7F as you might expect. Instead you get values relative to the individual Voice Volume level.

Similar, when changing the volume of style parts with the sliders of the mixer you will get values relative to the global Style Volume setting in the panel tab of the mixing console. By default this Style Volume ist set to 100 (hexa 64) so changing the volume of a style part will send values from 0x00 to 0x64. If you adjust the Style Volume to 127 then values from 0x00 to 0x7F will be sent.

Did the behaviour change with the latest release? I have no idea.

Is it a bug? Maybe not, it seems to be implemented consistently. If you record a MIDI song using the onboard sequencer and mix in using the onboard console, then transfer it to DAW and play it back volume levels are the same.

What is the reasoning behind this? I don't know. I find that confusing, maybe someone else could chime in. My MODX does send CC07 0-127 for all parts of a perfomance independent of the sound chosen. So do other keys/synth that I own.

[Bill]

Hi Dromeus

Many thanks.  I will check a few more things as you have kindly suggested.

Regards

Bill

[Bill]

Hi Dromeus

I have checked what you have said earlier.  That is definitely the answer although, to be honest, I did not think you were going to be correct.

You are a Genius

Thanks again.

Bill

[SeaGtGruff]

Hi @Dromeus and @Bill,

It sounds similar to the way the Style Volume on the PSR-E models changes the volumes of the style parts relative to their preset volumes.

For controlling the Genos' voice volumes as desired, it sounds like you'll need to create your own user voices with the volumes set to 127, so CC7 can change them relative to that, from min to max.

[Dromeus]

Glad it was helpful, Bill. BTW you did right, it is always good advice to be skeptical  .