New recordings (made on Genos) that I did recently

[jimlaing]

Hi all!  With a bit of extra "at-home" time, about a month ago I decided to do another collection of song recordings.  This time, I did all Broadway/Show music, so I called it "Curtain Up!"  There are 26 songs.  Here is a link where you can find the recordings.  It was all done on Genos (see write-up for more details) . . .

I think the last time I did one of these was 28 songs I recorded last year sometime.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/perf/jimLaing.html

Jim

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Jim
You are going great guns and the music is very well played.
I will also put some music up at a later point ,but i am embroiled in mixing and making a thousand and one mistakes.
When mixing it is totally different to playing the keyboard .
It is all fun of  the fair
We all should have a mixing section where all can exchange ideas, because the high rollers with megabucks keep putting videos up and that always brings contradictions.
I ,like a lot of others keep going around in circles searching for the perfect mix for an amateur. Sausages !!to that !!
Soon Mr Blue Sky!!


All the best
john

[EileenL]

I think you will search for ever. Why not just sit and play. Genos sounds great as it is. There are some great performances on you tube now days.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen


I have learn't loads and the mixing is now coming into fruition for me now.
I am now using Ozone mix and mastering package and totally impressed so far.
You would not believe how genos sound can sound even better.

when mixing you realize all the imperfections in sounds as they layer together. You keep getting  weird noises, eg, hoots in the orchestra sections if  notes are not harmonising in their own space.
I have noticed too many notes in a chord can give unwanted noise so two notes can sound better. It is hard to explain.
I think it is the same with brass,no overlapping notes.
Anyway i am coming through and once over the learn curve things will be quicker. 
I still play the keyboard everyday as well.
I have just got this goal to reach ,so i can start producing my own music.
Call it the Lockdown Curve!!
Just watched the Spacex launch live and docking at Spacestation . Unbelievable!!
Must be fun sitting on a few 100 tons of fuel!!





All the Best
John

[Lee Batchelor]

While Mother Nature, a.k.a. Covid 19, has been warning all of us humans to slow down, I have spent a great deal of time recording myself. I have discovered that playing the Genos and recording music are 100 percent different activities. The Genos really shines as a live playing machine either in the living room or on a stage somewhere. For recording, the Genos offers some intriguing sounds but in most cases, it isn't even housebroken compared to recording with VST instruments. Of course, that's a totally unfair comparison because decent VST instruments are huge in terms of file size - far bigger than the space Yamaha devotes to its voices on the Genos.

For the Genos to do what it does in live playing is nothing short of amazing. However, if you want to produce (record) seriously, the Genos is just another MIDI controller.

[markstyles]

I feel that the Genos sound 'breathes' which I can't say for any Kontakt Library..  The Kontakt voices are interesting that they have many key triggers, for different articulations..  Still Kontakt sounds static to me.. 

But we all have our own tastes and observations. 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Francesco

Yes, at last Neutron and Ozone  itself can give great sound as it listens and puts in the Eq , and all other effects to what is necessary.
You can always say no  and try a different way, but the Ozone suite gets you in the ballpark very quickly.
I have nearly finished my first song with it as i have tried all other ways  to get results.
The thing is it takes years to be a mixer and Ozone can cut some of them off HOPE!!! .
You get some strange anomalies  in Cubase with the Genos and  i agree with lee that the Genos is really suited for live playing.
Vst Instruments are so much more precise in their sound quality and easier to mix
Even when editing midi from Genos in Cubase, it can get glitchy sometimes, but there are ways to get around that.
I also agree with Francesco that Ozone can turn the Genos Orchestra sounds to a more Cinamatic feel,but you have to watch your chording as you can get resonances.
As I said two notes instead of three does the trick sometimes. (Low notes sometimes clash with the higher notes that sound like an owl hooting) (Resonances)
EQ helps as well
To me it is all about listening hard which does your ears in sometimes.
For Lee, i would say go for Ozone when a deal comes up, like Black Friday or Summer Madness as  Izotope bring the mastering suite right down.
I have now spent three weeks with it and i am really getting into it  and it is not to difficult.
I am just going back and forth adjusting and making my mind up.
The other thing is that i can fiddle, fiddle and fiddle and still find something that i have missed  and  reckon i have to stop at certain point and be satisfied.
Neutron balances your mix  first and you do not have to gain stage. Accept or not . You have the choice to re- jig.
After that it is up to your ears , then over to Ozone to master.
Also Lurssen have a great offer from IK multimedia.  This is the Lurssen mix console that you put on your ipad and test your song in your car stereo and hi-fi's. £30 for the top version. I think the offer is ending very soon.
All In all Cubase is the top boy 
The money saved from lockdown can get you the mix suite!!


All the best
John

[Lee Batchelor]

I feel that the Genos sound 'breathes' which I can't say for any Kontakt Library..  The Kontakt voices are interesting that they have many key triggers, for different articulations..  Still Kontakt sounds static to me..
But we all have our own tastes and observations.

I agree. Most sound library instruments that I have tried tend to sound sterile by themselves, whereas, the Genos instruments are processed correctly so that they can be used as solo instruments right out of the box. Sound library instruments sound wonderful in the mix. Their solo instruments are also amazing but you need to make sure they are meant for soloing. That is, you can't just pick any old violin and use it for a solo. The voice must be processed as a solo instrument.

I have used a lot of the East West sound library instruments. The file sizes are huge and are best paid for by subscription. The only downside is you must keep paying every year if you want to keep the instruments available on your computer. Then again, any enhancements or additions are free. I guess it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Lee
Sampletank is great , Arturia synths are fantastic and the Korg Collection.
A little Genos and a little Vst is 100%
Sampletank has to be good as Jorden Ruddess  plays it unbelievably. The Dream Theatre guy with the Goaty Beard and shiny bonce..


All the best
John

[jimlaing]

Hi - wow - I only posted a note to mention that I had some new recordings to share.  I think these replies must be on the wrong thread??  They don't seem to be related to my initial post? 

Jim

[Lee Batchelor]

Good one, Jim. You know how we all tend to "drift" off-topic at times. What was the question ?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Jim
I gave you a great plug up there high in the list.
One thing always leads to another!!

" Life is not as we know it Jim" . "Beam me up Scotty"!!!

[jimlaing]

Yes, I did see the reply on topic ... thanks ... just was surprised to see all other replies on a few other topics - I know that happens ...

Jim

[Toril S]

Excellent recordings Jim. I believe all think that, but got tangled up in the sound producing details😀😀

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Jim

It is great to discuss the mixing side as we can all learn and we all know it is not an easy task.
I am trying all the time to improve the quality of the songs that i output and it is an uphill climb.
Things are starting to take shape for me now as I have been persistant  and not losing hope.
I find playing the easy part and the final output the most difficult.
With Ozone and Neutron ,it has made life easier.
You have balance to start and whilst mixing ,you have tonal control. You can sculpture a sound and the program puts the effect chain in for you. Accept or not. it is up to your ears once balanced. No gain staging as it takes that boring part away.
Amazing stuff this and it brings your song right up to the standards for the box.com.s, Soundcloud and cd .
I have just finished the first part of  a song  Mr Blue Sky and successfully mixed it. I have just the end section which uses choirs  with  a slower generating epic beat sound  and then the outro etc.
I had to do this song in three parts because of the instrumentation.
It would be a lot easier to play " Bring Me Sunshine"!!
Also made the registrations and that allows me to play the song in one go entirely using the live sliders when needed and  a couple of pads.

All the best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Toril

Jim has done a sterling job on his music
It is good to talk!!!


All the best
John

"Bring Me Sunshine"

[Lee Batchelor]

Nice work, Jim.

Holy socks, you must hear this. I started out on a reed type organ with buttons for the chords (don't remember the name). Its blower fan was about as loud as the instrument itself. My dad bought me a Lowrey Holiday in 1958 and a year later I started taking lessons!! I was born in 1953. We share a lot of common ground .

I dropped out of organ playing in the early 70s and played trumpet all through high school. Since then, I bought a Baldwin organ in 1980, a few Yamaha organs after that, and then in 1991 started into synths, PSR, Tyros, and now Genos keyboards. Amazing!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Frank

I have had The Ozone package for three weeks now and got stuck in with Neurtron first as it Is a balancing and  mixing program.
I have yet to go over to Ozone as this program is more for the mastering side as i am led to believe.
I am sure things will unfold especially the differences in the two programs
I am just getting used to Neutron and i have just about matched a reference track which i go back and forth to check in the Control room in Cubase.
Well Frank, i am still battling away. . I will put the results up when finished.

All the best
John

[jimlaing]

Thanks all ... so on these recordings, I did use Ozone (v7 I believe) on the master of the final stereo file for all the recordings in my collection.  Mainly so that volume levels across the whole 'album' are fairly similar from song to (similar genre) song - hoping that listeners don't have to lunge for the volume control often while listening to them on a CD player or just from the Dropbox MP3 files I made.

For mixing, I mostly did it in the Genos, before playing the song (setting the various parts to levels that seemed to work), then if I added anything as an overdub, I did the mixing in ProTools, but I didn't do anything fancy, just adjusted level of added track if needed.  Then Ozone on the master bus to "finalize" the song . . .

Jim

[Pino]

CorBlimey Guys, it must take 100's of hours even with a top of the range Genos just to get one song to record the way you want it.

Record the song on your keyboard, then load it to a DAW then correct the mistakes, then record more tracks and then spend time with other software to balance and enhance the tracks.

Im a style player, I have been debating whether to record a few tracks on top of the style to make things more Interesting, but then I will be a midi file player as opposed to a style player,

I understand it does not make any difference to the audience but it does matter in my head, I played midi backing a vocalist for over 20 years and then decided to drop the midi and play styles,
that's when I really started to play.

Midi means messing about on the PC much more than the few minutes it takes me to sort out the style, so much less time to practice to perfect the song and learn new songs.

I suppose that after the midi is complete then we can play with just one finger melody over the midi, that's what I did before, so easy.

Not knocking anything just fighting with myself, I feel sometimes I  need more than a just a style but stopped myself going the midi file route, and the beat goes on. 🎹

Pino

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Pino
Playing is the first priority and the only way to learn and progress
The mix side for me is to get a great recording like they do in a studio
I do not play out and about, so i have the time to experiment and better myself that way.
I like to play standard songs, but would really love to write my own music and that is why i am getting down to the mix side in preparation.
It is a dream to follow to eventally make my own music, but things get in the way like work and household things.
Now retired things are looking up

All the best
John

[EileenL]

I am with you Pino,
  I just pick a style that is suitable for the song I am going to play and play. I also find using certain Multi Pads make a huge difference in filling the song and enrich the end product.
  I often compose a song but to do this I need to play it on the keyboard first and usually turn on Midi record so that if it OK I can then get a copy of the music and print it out for further use.
  At the end of the day no one really cares about all this technical stuff. If the performance is good they will enjoy it straight from your keyboard. I listen almost daily to keyboard only performances and believe me there are some fantastic players out there.

[Pino]

I like Jim's songs very much, the 2nd and 3rd tracks do make a big difference.
Just interested in how Jim performs live at a gig, do you play over a wave file or Midi file or ?

I'm on a learning curve here, nothing negative,

After 10 years of style playing gigs I'm getting a little bored some time and looking for something different but I'm feeling that if I'm not playing the chords then whats left to play, just the melody.?

Pino

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Nothing wrong with what Eileen says but i have got this little dream even at 69
The tech stuff is interesting but if you can play, it all becomes easier.
I am not a lego brick builder, i prefer Tonka toy. Sausages to that!!!

All the best]
john
"Bring Me sunshine"!!

[Pino]

John
I'm not so sure
If your building your songs in 'Cubase' then you are a Lego builder, 
building brick by brick, been there and done it.

It's great to have a dream and plenty time to get it together.
You'll get there soon.
Best wishes John and keep on dreaming 😀
Pino

This is my dream

https://youtu.be/JOAQ6PxGI6M

https://youtu.be/teQy0oOpwVI

https://youtu.be/hG38MyZqq1g

[Lee Batchelor]

Pino and Eileen,

There's no doubt that playing a song and recording it either on the Genos or in Cubase as a wave file captures your inspirational moment and when you're recording MIDI you're sort of "manufacturing" music.

On the other hand, MIDI is also one of the most amazing tools that makes you a better player. When you record a song as a wave file, you listen to the playback and are in awe at how good you are. Trouble is, what do you do when you discover an incorrect chord that clashes with the rest of the score or when you let the left-hand piano wander into the same musical real estate as the bass guitar? You can't fix that and if you don't, the result is a very amateurish performance. That's fine if you're willing to settle for that. If you're gifted enough to play a background score for a vocalist and make no mistakes, then you're a pro. I wager that most of the users on this forum are probably not in that category - myself included.

One of the most common musical errors I hear from users' recordings on this forum is the tendency to rush the phrasing. I know because I'm just as guilty. When you record yourself in MIDI, not only can you hear errors such as rushing a phrase but you can also see the error. I've noticed that my piano accompaniments tend to be consistently rushed by about a 1/32th note. Such an error ruins the feel of the song. Seeing that error in the MIDI data has taught me to slow down and relax my phrasing.

There are dozens of other things that MIDI data can reveal. We shouldn't discount the many teaching powers of MIDI. If one's goal is to display their true musical talent, then MIDI is a necessary intermediate step.

[mikf]

If you record in real time then I see no effective difference whether you record to audio or midi.
Where midi comes into its own for people with the musical ability is to make complex arrangements. Of course people with less musical ability can also use midi to make corrections, or build something that sounds ok track by track.
When playing live the amount of satisfaction you get comes from what you play regardless of whether it is over a midi or driving a style, or playing with other musicians. Of course you could also the midi to 'cheat' and play little, that might have little musical satisfaction for many of us.  But then many would say using a style is also be cheating.
Mike

[EileenL]

To me using a style is certainly not cheating. Some of us can't have a Drummer or guitarist playing along with us. That is all part of the fun of owning an arranger keyboard.

[jimlaing]

Since someone asked about how I play live - I just play live, no added tracks.  When I do "album" recordings, that's when I sometimes add a little extra, but even then, most of what is on the final 'product' is what I did in a 1-pass live recording. 

For the person that asked how I do songs live, here are a few videos (older Tyros ones, but posting just to answer that person's query about how I do songs live ... these are some examples.  When I make an "album" from recordings like these, I just add a little (maybe an extra 10%).  I do not spend 100 hours :-)   But I don't typically try to make *perfect* recordings, just decent ones.   The Broadway collection of 26 songs I did in about a week, not "all day every day", so it might have taken me ~40-50 hours total effort for all 26 songs.  But as you can tell when listening, they are "Decent" but not perfect.  I do most of the "mix" by adjusting the volumes on the Genos, before recording.  Then mix in the ~10% extra in Pro Tools, such as a string layer or a Trumpet solo or whatever.

For the question of how I do songs live - here are some examples . . . re-post of older videos I made, since I have not made any videos recently .. . .

Can't Help Falling In Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXcQvXItjI
Blame It On The Bossa Nova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a67vYlTwg-c
Classical Medley #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQqtrTnOtfY
Tennessee Waltz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q_KJv2RzCk
Rocky Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP14y5qtDk4

[GrantB]

Hi Jim,

Such a pleasure to listen to you play, thanks for the music man.

Cheers

Grant