YEM 2.60 Error? "Total amount of user Waveform exceeds the limit"

[valimaties]

So, I need testers which have this error trying to export the pack and giving this error with waveforms.

Please send me PM with your emails and I will provide my new YEM-CE executable to test this function with all instructions!

Let see what I have done:
Running the test version, I get a list of all voices in ppf which has those empty waveforms. So I've checked in YEM to see if there are indeed empty.

Picture 1: Drumkit YEM-CE, tells me which elements are empty and can be deleted:


Picture 2: The same DrumKit in YEM


Picture 3: A Normal Voice, shows me the same things, elements which are empty in YEM-CE


Picture 4: Checking this voice in YEM to see if it's true (I've made printscreen only to the first 4 Elements in YEM)



Picture 5: A new check, after removing empty Elements and Waveforms



I will wait for testers! 

Regards,
Vali

[Joe H]

Vali,

Thank you for your explanation... it makes sense.  Seems like Yamaha COULD fix this problem with code to "ignore" those empty Elements.  It might be necessary to write code for YEM and the keyboard(s) OS.

What you you think about this?

Regards,
Joe H

[valimaties]

Vali,

Thank you for your explanation... it makes sense.  Seems like Yamaha COULD fix this problem with code to "ignore" those empty Elements.  It might be necessary to write code for YEM and the keyboard(s) OS.

What you you think about this?

Regards,
Joe H

Hi Joe.

Not for keyboard OS. The problem I think is in YEM only. It is enough to delete them, or better not create them as long they don't have any data loaded I don't see the reason 

I will test myself on my data, to see what happening. I will try to load as many packs to reach that silly error.

Good night
(00:35 AM  )

[Joe H]

Vali,

I did a little testing of my own.  I have several "dummy" packs to call up my Motif Rack Users Voices that consist of just Voice names and no wave forms.

I see that when I add these dummy packs to my combined (installation) pack the Voice Wave size does not even register (no Wave Forms) but the Voice Parameter size goes up with each dummy pack I add and can exceed the Voice Parameter size limit even though the Voice Wave size is within the S970 509MB limit. 

I think this is why I experienced a dummy pack not "fully" loading.

So I think as explained in this thread, there is a limit to the number of Voices. (16 bit capacity as Fred states) And as Jorgen explained,  It's like having a bus big enough to hold 100  seats, but when you get in the bus there is only 25 seats. (so what's the point of having all that memory for packs if we can't use it?)

It's a matter of Voice Wave Size vs. Voice Parameter Size.  So... we can have a lot of leftover memory for Wave Size (memory) and use up all the available Parameter Size (capacity).

Does that make sense?

Joe H

[valimaties]

Hi Joe.

I don't think there is problems with Wave Size and Parameter Size, as the error came from the number of waveforms used in voices. As I have related already.

BTW, tonight, wanted to build and to give to Ali and to a romanian friend the executable of the new YEM-CE, I have encountered an error regarding of deleting the empty waveforms, on the installation in my main YEM, not the one for tests, but the one I use in gigs. So, of course, I starts checking why. I have encountered errors regarding to voices imported from T4, converted through uvn importing process, came from the old versions of YEM (2.3 till now, which btw, I used them till now).
These are the errors:

Double click on the voice, to open Voice Editor in YEM shows this:


Clicking YES it creates new voice (a new uvf in my pack):


Editing it, I have noticed that wave files are missing, and I cannot really edit those voices:


Again to study ((
waveforms are not anymore the first thing to remove, because are bond with other new things from voiceElement 

PS: Because we don't have a real xsd file of Yamaha's voice uvf file, we have to gain all the possibilities to be able to make a good job 

Study, study...

[valimaties]

Tonight I have deleted all my packs and reinstalled in new version of YEM, 2.0. So, the same packs, but imported in new version, as new packs.
What I've discovered?! Number of waveforms DRASTICALLY diminished !!!
So, this made me thinking that those who have problems with Waveform error, if you delete all packs and reinstall them on new YEM, it will solve the problem. I think there was some problems in old versions (2.5.2 was a full-error version) which damaged information about voices. This problem, only by reinstalling new version of YEM does NOT solve the problem.
As an example, a printscreen, I think at least 2000 waveforms disapeared 

[bluali]

Tonight I have deleted all my packs and reinstalled in new version of YEM, 2.0. So, the same packs, but imported in new version, as new packs. .... if you delete all packs and reinstall them on new YEM, it will solve the problem.....

Dear Vali, With all due respect, Sir, I don't think that's the case. if you have read my explanations in the beginning of this post, I have explained that I had re-installed everything from scratch even I had re-imported the n27(ver 2.00),  I even had deleted the old YEM directory in "App data" .  Anyhow I appreciate your help and thanks for trying.

[valimaties]

Thanks Ali.

I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email.
I will wait for feedback.

Regards,
Vali

[bluali]

Thanks Ali. ....I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email.
I will wait for feedback....

Hi Vali,
Thank you so much for the efforts. I will try your program and let you know the results. Thanks again

[bluali]

Thanks Ali. .....I've sent you an email with test version. Please read very carefully the Note in email. .... will wait for feedback...

Hi Vali,
Your software is a very good enhancement to YEM, I hope Yamaha learn that and add all features of your software into the current YEM, Very good job! I already sent you my feedback to your email. Thanks again for your help,
Ali

[Joe H]

Hi Vali,
Your software is a very good enhancement to YEM, I hope Yamaha learn that and add all features of your software into the current YEM, Very good job! I already sent you my feedback to your email. Thanks again for your help,
Ali

Yes, but there is a problem with it... I have sent Vali a report. Maybe my findings for the S970 and YEM v2.5.3 do not work with the YEMCE v2 software.  Vali will tell us.

Joe H

[valimaties]

Thank you guys for your help. I really appreciate it a lot.

Sadly, I don't have good news. My researches founds a lot of empty waveforms and blank elements, which in my opinion does not fit to the logic of reading xml (uvf) file!
Strange than that, is, as you also view, selecting Genos keyboard I will have 0 size of Voice Parameter after deleting empty waveforms and element banks, BUT, changing to SX900 in YEM it will calculate a value different than zero, which is very strange! The files are almost the same, I don't know which is the logic of different values  More than that, with original files, before deleting, the values of voice parameters are totally insane, comparing them.
I think I will take some days of "relax" ... and after Joe will answer to my demands, I will try to do more research!
Till then...

Best regards,
Vali!

[anandmaloo]

Hi,

I had a Genos and I was facing a lot of these errors while creating the ppi. So I had to deselect a lot of my files within the packs to reduce their number and then only was I able to create the ppi for my Genos

Now I bought an SX900 as well, imported the instrument info in same YEM and created a ppi for my SX900 without deleting any of the files (which I had to, for creating the ppi in Genos)

And voila - my ppi for SX900 is created without a hitch. So this ppi is bigger in size than GENOS ppi. HOW???

Attached is the pic showing size of the various parameters of the two ppi side by side. Every parameter of SX900 ppi is higher then Genos. The same ppi which was made for SX900 failed to make in Genos with same specifications

What am I doing wrong here !!

Will clearing of the empty waveforms in the YEM explorer help?

Regards

Anand




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[valimaties]

Hi Anand.

I have a suggestion for you. Export each pack as ppf (or cpf, if pack is protected) or if you have them already in your PC as ppf or cpf, skip this step.
Make a picture to LSB screen (order of packs).
Delete the folder of YEM installation from user and open your YEM again.
It will starts empty. Install n27 files for Genos and for SX900, import all ppfs and then reorder them (or you can import in the order you see in screenshot already done). Select all content you want to install in keyboard and then see if any of the values has changed.

I think YEM has a problem removing sometimes selected content flag, or some packs remains undeleted in index file of YEM. This happened to Joe H, too. I suggested him to do this job and after this process everything was fine.

You can now use my YEM-CE v2 to remove unwanted empty waveforms to release some of the voice parameter size. Try it.

Make sure to make a backup of user folder before editing something there ( "%localappdata%\Yamaha\Expansion Manager" )

Regards,
Vali

[elad770]

I received the same messages even though the Wave total information is clearly under 3gb.

The problem is the Pack Installation file. If this file exceeds 4096mb The program will issue the same Wave warning.

You  can confirm this by clicking on the drop-down window: "Pack install file size"

[Joe H]

elad770,

Did you see that Vali released a new version... YEM-CE v2. 

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,53624.msg417847.html#msg417847

He fixed the problem with empty wave forms.   

Joe H

[elad770]

I'm definitely going to install his software. I think he did a great job!

I think though, this has nothing to do with it.

[Zaurafon]

1. Hello. I would like to share my tests, which lasted a very long time. All the same, I think I found the WaveForms limit in Expansion Manager. 32768 Maximum Waveforms

2. after I delete the empty WaveForms, if I made any changes to the Expansion Manager, Voice Creator, and save the sound, then all empty WaveForms come back from exactly the sound you edited. after each Editing will have to be deleted again.

3. For some reason, when I drop it into Expansion Manager into one package the same samples, for example, one REX file 10 times. 10 identical copies Then it will take up space as from a single Wave Ram Size file. But Waveforms Will Occupy Under 10 Rex Files

sorry for my bad english)) I write through google Translate;)

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[valimaties]

Hi.

First of all, YES, deleting process must be done every time before you want to send data to your keyboard. Empty waveforms are created by YEM's Voice Creator!

Second, if you could provide me that Rex file, I can make some tests, otherwise, I don't know what to search for

Regards,
Vali

[valimaties]

Ok.

First of all, thank you for files for test.
I saw now that you are using a lot of rex files which are Drums.
I don't know WHY they do that , but in Drums, each key has a waveform attached. In other types of voices, an element is a waveform.
So think about that for a normal voice you can use maximum of 8 waveforms, but for drums you use A LOT. That's why you reached so quickly the limit!

Unfortunately, I cannot do anything in this case.
Even if I remove those empty waveforms in drums (un-assigned keys) the number of waveforms is big.

I see only one solution here: Drums to be created exactly like normal voices (not by you, but Yamaha to create in the same way the file), which I think will never be done
Edited: Or two: the number of waveforms to be increased to a bigger one, thru a software/firmware update.

PS: If you find a solution to reduce the number of Drums files in your imported files, you can use your content, otherwise it will be a problem for you!
As a suggestion: If you use the same key/note/sound in your all drums, don't import them in all, use the sound in only one drum and open DrumSetup to get the needed sound from the drum which has needed sound! In this way, you will free up some of the waveforms. For example, cowbell sound, you can find it in a lot of drums in keyboard, or other percussion sounds, too

Best regards,
Vali

[Zaurafon]

Ok.

First of all, thank you for files for test.
I saw now that you are using a lot of rex files which are Drums.
I don't know WHY they do that , but in Drums, each key has a waveform attached. In other types of voices, an element is a waveform.
So think about that for a normal voice you can use maximum of 8 waveforms, but for drums you use A LOT. That's why you reached so quickly the limit!

Unfortunately, I cannot do anything in this case.
Even if I remove those empty waveforms in drums (un-assigned keys) the number of waveforms is big.

I see only one solution here: Drums to be created exactly like normal voices (not by you, but Yamaha to create in the same way the file), which I think will never be done
Edited: Or two: the number of waveforms to be increased to a bigger one, thru a software/firmware update.

PS: If you find a solution to reduce the number of Drums files in your imported files, you can use your content, otherwise it will be a problem for you!
As a suggestion: If you use the same key/note/sound in your all drums, don't import them in all, use the sound in only one drum and open DrumSetup to get the needed sound from the drum which has needed sound! In this way, you will free up some of the waveforms. For example, cowbell sound, you can find it in a lot of drums in keyboard, or other percussion sounds, too

Best regards,
Vali

Hi about Drum Setup. It is useless in this situation, because unfortunately the Drum Kits that are in the Expansion Manager. You can use only 70 of them, the rest just can't be seen. I wrote about this to Yamaha but never received any answer. And by the way, these 70 Drum Kits do not show in turn, for example, Packet1 Packet2 Packet3. Or maybe they will show at first Drum Kits From the 10th package and then, for example, from the third, ignore the remaining first second since it exceeds 70 Drum Kits

2.I understand the same structure they have on Yamaha Motif & Montage. Each WaveForm Bank This is one Multisampler If it is a regular Voice You can upload Up to 118 wave Files And it will be considered as 1 Waveform. And if you collect DrumKit, then each WaveFile takes 1 Waveform Bank. For example, if you have 67 Different Wave Files in one Drum Kits, then it will take 67 Waveforms.

[valimaties]

That's what I said, too 

Ok. About Drum Kits in Drum setup, seems it is also taking care of number of waveforms because I could upload only 64 drum kits to be able to see all of them in Drum Setup.

Regards,
Vali