Style edit and Registrations

[Luluc]

Hi all Genosphils,

Let' say you have a song with a style and several registrations.
For any reason, you decide to edit the style - for velocity changes, notes changes, add some bars, etc ...
Then, when you play your song with the edited style, - as far I know - you have to reassign the edited style to each regsitration. If not, the changes are not taken in account. That is tedious and not very professional for a such product as the Genos.

Is there any trick to avoid the reassignement task ?

[EileenL]

No you have to save your changes because you already saved the registration with instructions to save as it was. If you alter it you have to save these new instructions. Far better to edit your style first.

[Fred Smith]

Hi all Genosphils,

Let' say you have a song with a style and several registrations.
For any reason, you decide to edit the style - for velocity changes, notes changes, add some bars, etc ...
Then, when you play your song with the edited style, - as far I know - you have to reassign the edited style to each regsitration. If not, the changes are not taken in account. That is tedious and not very professional for a such product as the Genos.

Is there any trick to avoid the reassignement task ?

If the style name and location don't change, then you don't need to change your registrations. For a style, the only thing a registration knows about is where to find it (drive, path, file name). If that hasn't changed, the registration doesn't need to change.

Cheers,
Fred

[jwyvern]

No you have to save your changes because you already saved the registration with instructions to save as it was. If you alter it you have to save these new instructions. Far better to edit your style first.

I have had to resave edited styles (with no name or location changes) or the original regs cause the changes to revert back to the original values.
But  this only applies to the style parameters that are routinely saved to regs such as volumes, voices, effects including dsp's.
You should not as far as I am aware need to resave for midi changes to the riffs, (velocity, notes, bars) since there is no provision in registrations to record all that data. If there was they would be large files comparable with styles..........

John

[panos]

On my psr if I edit the style,the reg will now play the new edited style.
I don't know if this is different in Genos though.
Maybe you have saved to a reg something outside the style creator,e.g you levelled up the volume of the chord 1 channel and saved this change in reg1.Not to the style itself.

Anyway,
an easy way to "remake" a registration as long as you want to change just a couple of things in the reg each time,
is to push the reg1 button first, apply the changes you want (e.g change the variation of a style in the reg) press save+reg1.
All the previous data of the reg will remain unchanged.
Do that with all the reg buttons and at the end, save the registration.

Not a good idea to change a reg while we mess around to find out a thing we want to change.
Find what you want to change and test it and then recall the reg first and re-do the changes you have tested .
Otherwise we may change something we shouldn't without knowing it.
I have done this mistake many times

[Luluc]

If the style name and location don't change, then you don't need to change your registrations. For a style, the only thing a registration knows about is where to find it (drive, path, file name). If that hasn't changed, the registration doesn't need to change.

Cheers,
Fred

NO - The style name and locations do not change and I need to reassign the style to each Reg, as confirmed by EileenL.
In fact, the trick is to edit the style before the creation of the regs.

[Fred Smith]

NO - The style name and locations do not change and I need to reassign the style to each Reg, as confirmed by EileenL.
In fact, the trick is to edit the style before the creation of the regs.

"Reassigning" the same style to a registration will not make any change to it.

You've either done more than just edit the style, or you're creating a lot of unnecessary work.

Have you tried simply playing the registration after editing the style? What happens when you do?

Cheers,
Fred

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
just change a style and make a new registraton set.
Job Done

[Luluc]

"Reassigning" the same style to a registration will not make any change to it.

You've either done more than just edit the style, or you're creating a lot of unnecessary work.

Have you tried simply playing the registration after editing the style? What happens when you do?

Cheers,
Fred

In my style edit, I have changed the volumes of some tracks, changed the velocity of some tracks,...

jwyvern said that for some MIDI changes (riffs, velocity,bars...), there is no need to reassign the style. It seems that nobody has the list of the MIDI parameters that would imply a style reassignement or not...Yamaha should have this information.
In the other hand, I have found  nothing about the edited styles in the Genos manual. IMHO it should be better documented.
Reassign the style is the only I have found to make things to work.

Some

[jwyvern]

In my style edit, I have changed the volumes of some tracks, changed the velocity of some tracks,...

jwyvern said that for some MIDI changes (riffs, velocity,bars...), there is no need to reassign the style. It seems that nobody has the list of the MIDI parameters that would imply a style reassignement or not...Yamaha should have this information.
In the other hand, I have found  nothing about the edited styles in the Genos manual. IMHO it should be better documented.
Reassign the style is the only I have found to make things to work.

Some

The Data List will show you what style properties can be saved in regs. I think you will find there is no reference to riff notes being saved and my previous post tries to explain why this is unlikely anyway. Maybe Murray (responsible for the registration manager software) can comment in more detail.

"Reassign the style is the only I have found to make things to work" .
If by that you mean re-memorise the edited style to the registration (even if still with the name and location unchanged) then yes. As Spok might say, it is a logical consequence of the process.
And if we could then resave registration banks by say a single screen touch instead of Yamaha's insistence on about 6 it would seem less hassle to do.

John

[murrayb]

On style editing, if you are taking a panel style and editing values, then saving as a new name, you will have to memorize that new style name, after selecting it.  Your current registration contains a code that represents the panel style, but the saved new style now has a path name that has to be added to the registration.

The following parameters of any style are saved in the registration (these are the ones I know):

Part Volume - each part
Part Balance - each part
Part Reverb - each part
Part Chorus - each part
Voice codes MSB LSB Prg - each part
There are five other sections that apply a single code to each part that I haven't analyzed, but appear to be volume or balance, maybe someone has more insight into these.

If you have changed any of the above parameters, to insure that the registration is properly updated, first select a different style, then select your revised style.  Memorize this selection to insure that the codes in the style are saved in the registration. 

Murray

[Joe H]

Fred has got it right.  If you edit a style and save it back to the same location and save it with the same name, there is no need to remake your registrations.  The registration just points to the file location and its name.

Joe h

[jwyvern]

Fred has got it right.  If you edit a style and save it back to the same location and save it with the same name, there is no need to remake your registrations.  The registration just points to the file location and its name.

Joe h

But if you make changes to certain style parameters eg. voices, or volume or effects and just save the style the original registration (which had been saved before the style edit and which also stores the parameters) will override  those the next time the reg is activated. Hence if you want the registration to reflect the new style parameters it needs to be re-memorised and the bank saved.
In fact a lot of the time it is unnecessary to keep editing the above parameters and saving the style itself, you only need to make the changes and save the registration directly and can leave the style file as it was if that is convenient.
It is only essential to save the style file if edits are made to the riffs.

John

[Joe H]

John,

Are you sure about this.  Registrations only store pointers to files used by the registration.  If a registration points to a style that is named John's style on USB1, then that is the style loaded. It does not matter what edits were made to the style. The registration just loads the style.

Registrations do not store specific edits made to a style or Multi Pad for that matter. It just memorizes what files are used and where they are located.

This is not true for Live Control settings though, (which is a new feature in the Genos OS) because they are a different case. registrations do save specific values for the Live Control messages.

Joe H

[jwyvern]

John,

Are you sure about this.  Registrations only store pointers to files used by the registration.  If a registration points to a style that is named John's style on USB1, then that is the style loaded. It does not matter what edits were made to the style. The registration just loads the style.

Registrations do not store specific edits made to a style or Multi Pad for that matter. It just memorizes what files are used and where they are located.

This is not true for Live Control settings though, (which is a new feature in the Genos OS) because they are a different case. registrations do save specific values for the Live Control messages.

Joe H

Joe, Links yes, but some parameters as I kept saying in previous posts and supported in Murray's earlier post, are recorded directly in regs.

Thank you for posting Murray.

It does not take long to check out what I say. Just take an existing reg, change say the drum  volume or change the Bass to a different voice. Memorise to a new temp registration as  a test. Now compare the changed parameters in the 2 regs. With Genos (at least) the regs will show the different values.
That is why I said it is not essential to resave a style file after editing these parameters, it can be done within registrations if convenient.
Note I cannot be sure about PSR's as I have not had one.

What I have been advocating in previous posts is based on a work flow I needed to adopt to ensure that certain registrations reflected edits I made to styles (the latter being saved to same name and location) and would not substitute the originals when activated.  Eg. one of the more obvious cases was system reverb would periodically revert from large hall plus to one of older reverbs, in spite of being saved within the style.

John

[gerarde]

John,

I did what you did basically.
I went from a PSR S970 to Genos with over 300 registrations many, many of which had song specific styles.
On Genos, I would load the song specific style, and on most change the drums to REVO drums, and many times the bass and save the registration.
I also changed many of the voices, I use the resonator guitar for example, which is not on the PSR S970.
The original style remained the same.
The registration reflected the style and voice changes in the style.

Gerard

[valimaties]

In Genos registrations does not work like Tyros or S-models.
Some parameters about style are stored in registration. It's not only a link to file!

For example, (and Murray knows my problem) I had a registration made in Tyros 5 which loaded in Genos, very well (I said at that time). But I edited my style, and I used Drum Setup on that style. I overwrite the style (so the same path). Guess what?! When I load the registration the style which plays was the original one (without drum setup editing). I had to reload the style, by accessing style page. Even if I re-saved the registration with the newly loaded style, when I loaded the registration again, the drum editing settings does not load. So I had to delete the registration and recreate registration again, from scratch.
I think there are some incompatibility of registrations from older models to Genos. If you want to work as it has to be, create new registrations in Genos and it will put all the information inside.

Regards,
Vali

[jwyvern]

Hi Gerard, thanks for the confirmation,

John

[Joe H]

I just did a test on my S970 by changing the volumes of a style. Those volume changes played when I selected the registration again. (I selected a different registration first then went back and selected the test registration). So maybe on the "old" PSR OS it works that way, and maybe on the new Genos OS it works differently.

Joe H

[Joe H]

I did the test again and got the same results.  I made changes to the style and saved it using Style Creator. I then selected a different registration and executed couple of the buttons in the reg bank. Then selected my test registration again.  The changes I made to the Volumes in the test style played correctly without me saving the test registration AFTER I edited the style.

On the S970, the registration does not save parameters within the style, it only points to the style that was saved. If I select the test registration in the future after I edit the style, those edits are heard and also seen in the Mixing Console.

Joe H

[jwyvern]

I just did a test on my S970 by changing the volumes of a style. Those volume changes played when I selected the registration again. (I selected a different registration first then went back and selected the test registration). So maybe on the "old" PSR OS it works that way, and maybe on the new Genos OS it works differently.

Joe H

Hi Joe, if the changes you made were only to the style file it is as you say working differently, presumably because the psr regs do not save style parameters directly as stated in Vali's previous post:

"In Genos registrations does not work like Tyros or S-models.
Some parameters about style are stored in registration. It's not only a link to file!"

John

[valimaties]

According to Genos DataList, there are a lot of parameters that a registration store for a style All the parameters from Style1/Style2 pages (EQ, CutOff/Resonance, Pan/Volumes, VariationEffectsDepth, Chorus/Reverb) are stored in Registrations. The less one is Insertion Effect Depth.

So, if you change something in style, but your registration has other settings for volumes, eq, etc, the settings loaded are from registration, not from style!
ATTENTION! This is not about changing a voice in style Yes, if you change a voice, of course, it will load the voice from the style. But the settings, they MUST be from the registration.

Read DataList, page 83!

Regards,
Vali

[Joe H]

John,

I see my mistake... there are so many boards now that I didn't see that this is a Genos board. Since I'm planning on buying a sx900 one day, this may be relevant for the sx900 too. We are all learning about the changes in the new OS for Genos (and maybe the sx900 too).  Many things are different, not just the touch screen.

The bottom line is that we are both right.  You were talking about Genos, and I was talking about the S970.



Joe H

[jwyvern]

Joe,

 

John

[jwyvern]

So, if you change something in style, but your registration has other settings for volumes, eq, etc, the settings loaded are from registration, not from style!
ATTENTION! This is not about changing a voice in style Yes, if you change a voice, of course, it will load the voice from the style. But the settings, they MUST be from the registration.

Read DataList, page 83!

Regards,
Vali

Vali, at the risk of extending the thread ad infinitum ...............
On my Genos if I change a style part voice in mixer, then save a registration, on activating the latter the changed voice always reappears regardless of what voice is in the style file.
I frequently use registrations to edit selected style values effects and voices rather than going for full style edits.
Voice (style) does show in the Data List for saving to regs after a gap beyond  the other style settings.
John