New firmware for Genos, including chord looper, in October 2019?

[Joe H]

This update is not due out until Winter so you will not find it anywhere until then.

With comments like that Eileen, I can understand why some folks think you work for Yamaha.  Where do you get your inside information from?



Joe H

[EileenL]

I do not work for Yamaha but have always maintained a good relation ship with them and there Tec Guys. 

[valimaties]

The memory expansion, frankly, has me worried.

1+ Gb memory addition sounds like a physical change to the keyboard to me, not a software update.
...

Adam

Hi Adam...
Look at Korg. They do it in this way, software update, TWO times From 400 to 800 and from 800 to 3 GB So I think memory exists, but they have to manage very well to give that much directly to user. So they give a little first, after that they make tests with more and more and more till they achieve the best performance from their "gadget"

Conclusion: A lot of things can be made ONLY with updates. (Especially with Genos)

Regards,
Vali

[tyrosman]

let me say this for the last time Eileen does not work for Yamaha we both have a very good Relation ship with Yamaha and this update will come what I can say is well done Yamaha

[pjd]

The memory expansion, frankly, has me worried.

1+ Gb memory addition sounds like a physical change to the keyboard to me, not a software update.

Unless of course, they optimized their code and found an 'extra' 1 Gb of space ...
or
The keyboard had that memory on board, but was unable to access it through the software...

I hope it is a software update because I really would like the style reset and chord looper updates.

Adam

Hi Adam --

It's a software-only improvement.

Yamaha have probably taken a page from recent Korg updates. Currently, user samples in waveform memory are not compressed. Only Yamaha have the trade secret algorithms to compress and uncompress. Compressed samples are uncompressed on-the-fly in real time by the tone generator hardware.

Yamaha's proprietary compression algorithm reduces sample space by a factor of 2 to 2.5. A lot depends upon the characteristics of the waveform data itself.

Expansion packs developed by Yamaha typically contain compressed waveforms. So, the increase in effective expansion space may benefit mainly user samples. Unless Yamaha have discovered and implemented a super duper compression algorithm, which is very unlikely.

Hope this helps -- pj

[pjd]

Speaking of expansion memory space, I noticed that the video refers to a "Genos 2.0 Superior Pack" with 25 plus new voices.

I have to wonder -- will the Superior Pack be stored in the flash ROM containing the Genos factory samples, or will the samples in the Superior Pack be stored in regular expansion memory, i.e., the flash ROM on the second tone generator IC which is dedicated to user waveforms?

All the best -- pj

P.S. I'm very happy to see the Superior Pack in the announcement and look forward to the details.

[Joe H]

Hi Adam --

It's a software-only improvement...

... Unless Yamaha have discovered and implemented a super duper compression algorithm, which is very unlikely.

Hope this helps -- pj

Isn't more likely that the memory was there all along... just not allocated?  How did they go from a 400kb sequencer to a 3MB sequencer?

With your technical expertise, you yourself stated awhile back that the S970 had about 1GB of unused memory... then they came out with the S975 with approximately 50% more expansion memory plus preinstalled packs.

Maybe they were planning to use that extra memory in the Genos for Genos 2 but saw that many folks thought that the 1.6GB expansion was kind of skimpy for today's TOTL arranger.

Joe H

[Lee Batchelor]

Is the Superior Pack free, that is, part of the free update? I assume so.

[pjd]

Hi Joe --

Please recall that we're talking about two different physical memory units here and each memory unit talks to a different processing unit.

The sequencer memory is in the host computer (an ARM architecture processor running Linux). It shouldn't have been too hard to find 2.5 MEGA bytes to hold more sequencer data.

Expansion memory in Genos communicates with one of the two tone generator integrated circuits. I believe that one tone generator and its attached flash ROM are dedicated to expansion. This is a different architecture than the S970. I expect the Superior Pack to load into this expansion memory. So, if people want to keep their existing user samples AND use the Superior Pack, Yamaha had better provide compression of user waveform samples.

Hope this helps -- pj

[pjd]

Is the Superior Pack free, that is, part of the free update? I assume so.

Hi Lee --

I believe that it's part of the update and is free. Here's hoping that we're not disappointed, of course, because we're all reading between very sketchy lines. 

-- pj

[Joe H]

... So, if people want to keep their existing user samples AND use the Superior Pack, Yamaha had better provide compression of user waveform samples.

Hope this helps -- pj

That's an interesting idea.  If that's the case then 3rd party developers will be able to increase the quality of the samples.  And the current 3rd party expansion packs will take up less memory. Is that what you are suggesting? Or are saying the current 3rd party packs will be incompatible with the v2.0 update? Because right now some 3rd party expansion packs are memory hogs.

Joe H

[Bachus]

That's an interesting idea.  If that's the case then 3rd party developers will be able to increase the quality of the samples.  And the current 3rd party expansion packs will take up less memory. Is that what you are suggesting? Or are saying the current 3rd party packs will be incompatible with the v2.0 update? Because right now some 3rd party expansion packs are memory hogs.

Joe H

I will be adding that Steinway, its almost 1GB in size, finally the memmory is big enough for these exclusive sounds

[soundphase]

I will be adding that Steinway, its almost 1GB in size, finally the memmory is big enough for these exclusive sounds

Hello. Could you tell us more détails ? What package do you talk about ?

[Bachus]

Hello. Could you tell us more détails ? What package do you talk about ?

http://www.cms-sounddesign.de/page13.html

piano 1 is a Steinway..
Piano 3 is a Bosendorfer

[pjd]

That's an interesting idea.  If that's the case then 3rd party developers will be able to increase the quality of the samples.  And the current 3rd party expansion packs will take up less memory. Is that what you are suggesting? Or are saying the current 3rd party packs will be incompatible with the v2.0 update? Because right now some 3rd party expansion packs are memory hogs.

Joe H

Hi Joe --

Current expansion packs will remain compatible. The memory hogs will remain memory hogs without compression.

This is all so iffy without real, detailed info from Yamaha. As usual, we'll wait and see.

Take care -- pj

[EileenL]

Well I think we have all we need to know from Yamaha that the flash memory will be increased to 3Gb.
  It all depends on what packs you use as we all know that Yamaha ones are compressed and don't take up that much memory. Third party ones are not.

[EB5AGV]

I am glad I was right with the 2.0 version and chord looper 

And the other announced improvements are just wonderful!

I don't mind waiting some more weeks 

Jose

[Lee Batchelor]

Hats off to Yamaha and their commitment to improving the Genos. I'm starting to think the first release of Genos was just a teaser. Yamaha was likely thinking, "Wait until they see what's in store for the future Genos I!"

If this is true and all those nice additions are coming in update 2.0, imagine what Genos II will be like !! Did I just start another sub-thread??!!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Lee

If all this is true it will be The Genos 2   because of update.
I wonder if this was all a plan to see how the keyboard sells as this could push the price up and sell more
If these updates get all exited then Yamaha can push the price up and sell more keyboards as well.
I think the next Genos will be more like the pro synths that everyone talks about or we may as well plump for the cheaper version.
At £4,500 it should be a pro synth as well as an arranger.
I wonder what the EU will do to UK prices in the future or Mr Trump putting tarriffs on the EU as everything is centralized in Germany.
The Genos could be £10,000 or $12,000. At the moment the world and it's future looks bleak.
So let's have fun whilst fun is to be had!!

MUSN' T GRUMBLE!!   


All the best
john

[Bachus]

Hi Lee

If all this is true it will be The Genos 2   because of update.
I wonder if this was all a plan to see how the keyboard sells as this could push the price up and sell more
If these updates get all exited then Yamaha can push the price up and sell more keyboards as well.
I think the next Genos will be more like the pro synths that everyone talks about or we may as well plump for the cheaper version.
At £4,500 it should be a pro synth as well as an arranger.
I wonder what the EU will do to UK prices in the future or Mr Trump putting tarriffs on the EU as everything is centralized in Germany.
The Genos could be £10,000 or $12,000. At the moment the world and it's future looks bleak.
So let's have fun whilst fun is to be had!!


All the best
john

Actially there is so many other helpfull features they could add in a 2.5 or 3.0 update..
With this new philosophy, the lifespan of a Genos will be atleast 5 or 6 years before seeing an update
Which is a great thing this way for initial buyers

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bachus

I reckon the update will be released 31st of October or just before. A matter of deduction "My Dear Watson"! as Sherlock Holmes would say

The reason being, is that there is a Yamaha promotion  on that date called Experts in Store which is going around the UK at that point in time.
This may also be going on in your and other countries.

All the best
John

[EileenL]

Hi John,
  They did say Winter and not Autumn. I hope we get it as a Christmas present.
They will have the SX900 with them so can demonstrate Chord Looper and Style reset.

[Bill]

Hi John

If you cannot see them in the UK you can at least download a couple of Yamaha Registration Bank for free.
Scroll down the page at like below.  Link is courtesy of Eileen.

Bill

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/news_events/2019/xperts.html

[Dromeus]

Hi John

Currently there is exactly one official reference regarding 2.0 in Germany. There is an anouncement for a "Workshop 2.0 Genos with Manfred Pichler". It is scheduled for Nov 28th and will take place at "Mister Music", a dealer who often presented in the past the premiere of new Yamaha arrangers in Germany. Note that Pichler does other Genos demos/workshops before that date where "2.0" is not explicitly mentionend.

[valimaties]

Actially there is so many other helpfull features they could add in a 2.5 or 3.0 update..
With this new philosophy, the lifespan of a Genos will be atleast 5 or 6 years before seeing an update
Which is a great thing this way for initial buyers

+1
I also think that there are a lot of software things to be improved or added, but also I think there will be limitations according to hardware (buttons, chips, potentiometers, etc). Even if you can do a lot of things using only the touch screen.
I don't think will be a Genos 2 too soon.

Regards,
Vali

[RoyB]

I don't own a Genos but I am happy for all Genos owners that Yamaha seem to be listening and offering a significant and worthwhile upgrade to Genos owners.

Given Yamaha's past practice on upgrades, I think we can all very reasonably expect that this is going to be a free upgrade for existing Genos owners. We have every reason to expect that this is going to be the case.

However, I feel that the teaser video is less specific than it might have been and a bit ambiguous on this, leaving open the possibility that this may not be the case. When you look at the teaser video for 1.4, it prominently described it as a 'Firmware Upgrade 1.4'. On the other hand, the V2 video very briefly shows a flashing counter moving up to 2.0, but makes no mention of firmware upgrade. In fact, it describes it prominently throughout as 'Genos Ver 2.0'.

This of course might be something or nothing and it may or may not be significant - you can read into this what you will. After all, it is a teaser video. Only time will tell, but let's hope it is as we are all assuming - a free upgrade.

[Lee Batchelor]

I don't own a Genos but I am happy for all Genos owners that Yamaha seem to be listening and offering a significant and worthwhile upgrade to Genos owners.

Given Yamaha's past practice on upgrades, I think we can all very reasonably expect that this is going to be a free upgrade for existing Genos owners. We have every reason to expect that this is going to be the case.

However, I feel that the teaser video is less specific than it might have been and a bit ambiguous on this, leaving open the possibility that this may not be the case. When you look at the teaser video for 1.4, it prominently described it as a 'Firmware Upgrade 1.4'. On the other hand, the V2 video very briefly shows a flashing counter moving up to 2.0, but makes no mention of firmware upgrade. In fact, it describes it prominently throughout as 'Genos Ver 2.0'.

This of course might be something or nothing and it may or may not be significant - you can read into this what you will. After all, it is a teaser video. Only time will tell, but let's hope it is as we are all assuming - a free upgrade.

Interesting post, Roy. Did Yamaha just start advertising Genos 2 - same guts but a much upgraded OS? Ah, more speculation. Guess we'll find out soon enough .

[EileenL]

Yamaha did a very similar thing with the 9000. There were a few things that should have been on there so after around six months they issued a large update and called it version 2. They even supplied
a sticker to put on your keyboard showing it was now version 2.
  How many of you remember this. I was very fortunate to meet the Japanese designers at Yamaha in a discussion over certain problems and quite a lot was added.   

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bill
Thanks for those Styles and to Eileen
Now these Styles are all about 100 volumes or thereabouts.
Is that the common standard to keep to for all of your collection.
I had previously made registrations and most songs all different volumes and that annoyed me for a while . Now i am trying to find the mean average so i do not have to keep altering.

All the Best
John

[EileenL]

Well John,
  As you know the keyboard defaults to a volume of 100 for most things. I usually keep my styles at this but do adjust volumes within the style for my own personnel use. I also usually raise the right hand voices to around 120. Once I have them right I save to registration banks. Most of my banks are set to the same volumes. That way when playing out I don't blast the audience with unwanted sound.